Was Oyama fake?

[Zentroidal]

oh man...where to start..

Mas Oyama was real. the mash up editing of the video and the implied narrative....not so much.
i do not know the source of the video but i would imagine its editing was someone other than Oyama himself. So the Youtube narrator seemed to be focused on the Bull horn. without viewing the original video i feel the edited version of the footage added the horn after the fact and was not part of Oyamas performance. he was known to "karate chop" off a bull horn and i think the film editor added the horn being thrown on the ground to show this. however it looks to me that Oyama may not have been able to do this stunt on this particular day or perhaps the footage was not sufficent quality for the video.
the YouTube Narrator says "if Oyama could produce the g forces to smash though solid bone" .......new flash a horn is not really solid bone there is a bone center but the actual horn is a keratin covering.
it is clear the Youtube narrator was critical of the hollywood mash up, this should be separated from what Oyama was actually doing. Hollywood types have a way of screwing everything up.
Oyama was wrestling the bull to the ground. in itself it doesnt look impressive, especially to those unfamilar with cattle and bulls. i know i couldnt do it. Oyama was also known to kill bulls with a punch to the head. however the tale is a little over blown, the tale i heard was that he did kill a bull with punches ..yes multiple punches to its skull over a three day span (if my memory is correct) i would challenge anyone to do that!!!
so yes Oyama was for real but we have a tendency to make the fish bigger with every telling.

that video is actually yeah cut down, in that fight he broke it loose by smashing the skull then ripped it off, he never hit it off in that fight maybe in some other bull fights

 

[Zentroidal]

Well wrestling a bull by the neck cannot be done. Its like trying to outrun a car or stop a bullet with your abs. Even with perfect technique, no amount of angular momentum can move something that's 10 times your weight and 10 times your strength (if you are the strongest man in the world).

The stunt was obviously staged. That doesn't mean Oyama was a fluke. He just needed marketing, and since we're still talking about the bull, he obviously got it in buckets.

bull is not as strong as you think oky sure strong but now how would you even fake such a thing? i have seen the real video no he wasn't drugged or what kind of crap is out there. the fight is 100% real and if you think logically, it ain't as difficult as you may think

 

[Zentroidal]

Here is the full footage:

To the best of my knowledge, that's the only known footage of his supposed bullfighting. He made this clip (where the horn break is clearly faked) and then later claimed to have done the same thing on multiple occasions, but I'm not aware of any documentation for those claims.

ur research ability is horrible this is real video

he didn't hit the horn off he pulled it off after hitting it loose, this one is with real sound. do better and don't be so shallow and close minded and do better research

 

[Zentroidal]

He was a legitimately great martial artist, but the "bullfighting" stunt was bs. (I read an article by one of his top European students years ago saying the same thing.) I'll also call shenanigans on the claim I read in one of his books that he tested his knife hands by breaking the necks of full grown German Shepards until the humane societies started complaining.

It's worth remembering that Obama did a stint on the pro wrestling circuit in the U.S. and later presented that experience as being a tour where he fought all comers in real challenge matches and was undefeated in 270 fights. The man was not a stranger to hucksterism.

the 270 fights yeah that's bs Oyama himself never claimed 270 fights he said he had couple of fights and he mostly did demonstrations, but he did have 15 total fights in america where one fight was with giant police man who ended up with 7 broken ribs after fighting Oyama, it was in the newspaper too, and snapping dog's neck with knife hand strike come on you think that's tough? Oyama wasn't fraud all he did was real but of course after he died everyone started telling lies and you believe them, why nobody said nothing when he was still alive?

 

[Zentroidal]

Seeing as he's a world famous martial artist I very much doubt he was a fake

he definitely wasn't fake but i can't blame people for thinking that way because most of the evidence is destroyed he was all over the news for being bull killer and undefeated karateka who could smash all kinds of bricks, bottles and stones. and not to mention him creating one of the most effective fighting styles to ever exist

 

[drop bear]

Even good fighters and legit bad asses make stuff up.

This will keep coming up. And is just part of basic human psychology.

 

[Badhabits]

My dad had an old book with pictures of someone shooting an arrow at Oyama, and Oyama snatching an arrow out of the air. As a kid I thought it was the coolest thing ever.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

A better question: Is kyokyushin fake? Most definitely not.

 

[_Simon_]

Am  I fake??? Guys, please tell me if I am!!!

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Am  I fake??? Guys, please tell me if I am!!!

I hate to tell you this, but ... you're a clone. The real Simon is too dangerous to risk letting run loose and is being held in a stasis pod until the time when he is truly needed.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Am  I fake???

Take this test:

Did you get your black belt completely online?
Do you teach the "touchless" knockout using your ki power?
Have you claimed to be trained by Bruce Lee?
Did you study with a ninja master known only as Master X?
Are you a 6th degree with only five years of training?
Do you know more MA guys than Buka?

If you answered "NO" to all these there is a good chance you're for real.

 

[_Simon_]

Take this test:

Did you get your black belt completely online?
Do you teach the "touchless" knockout using your ki power?
Have you claimed to be trained by Bruce Lee?
Did you study with a ninja master known only as Master X?
Are you a 6th degree with only five years of training?
Do you know more MA guys than Buka?

If you answered "NO" to all these there is a good chance you're for real.

Hmmmmm

I got some life reflection to do.........

 

[Same Trick]

If he had fought a tiger as his pal Yamagushi did, that would have been impressive.
A bull, even Taiji guys handle such with ease, it’s an important rule of the Taiji maxim

 

[Same Trick]

“The story about Oyama fighting bulls is not true. He never met a real
bull, for he never visited Spain. I also doubt that he was gored, for
he never told me about it and he used to tell me everything. Kurosaki
Kenji was there and he told me what happened. They went early in the
morning to a stock- yard in Tateyama Prefecture. Workmen prepared a fat
old ox for Oyama by hitting one of its horns with a hammer so that it
was quite loose. Oyama did not kill the ox he only knocked off the
loose horn.


Oyama showed Bill Backhus and I the 16mm "bull fighting" movie in 1959.
1 told Oyama never to show this film in Europe because it looked too
phony and everyone would laugh at him. As far as I know, nobody saw
that movie again.”


MAS OYAMA STORIES by JON BLUMING in the Past, I've Avoided

 

[_Simon_]

“The story about Oyama fighting bulls is not true. He never met a real
bull, for he never visited Spain. I also doubt that he was gored, for
he never told me about it and he used to tell me everything. Kurosaki
Kenji was there and he told me what happened. They went early in the
morning to a stock- yard in Tateyama Prefecture. Workmen prepared a fat
old ox for Oyama by hitting one of its horns with a hammer so that it
was quite loose. Oyama did not kill the ox he only knocked off the
loose horn.


Oyama showed Bill Backhus and I the 16mm "bull fighting" movie in 1959.
1 told Oyama never to show this film in Europe because it looked too
phony and everyone would laugh at him. As far as I know, nobody saw
that movie again.”


MAS OYAMA STORIES by JON BLUMING in the Past, I've Avoided

Yyyyeah... Jon Bluming has been let's say, a controversial figure in Kyokushin haha. He's said alot of things.

 

[windwalker099]

Small story...


Back in the '70s, as a medic in a US Army battalion aid station near the DMZ, Korea—Think MASH-unit.
Late one night, during my shift as an ambulance driver, we got a call from the front gate. A ROK (Republic of Korea) soldier had severely injured his hand and was bleeding profusely. The gate guards asked if they could send him up for treatment.

We said yes, he arrived shortly after. Upon examination, we saw that his right hand was cut down to the bone on the small finger side—what some might call the "knife edge."


He was drunk on the local homebrew, Soju (소주)—pretty harsh stuff, at that moment, a decent anesthetic.
He wasn’t feeling much pain. His English, limited, kept repeating, “I f**ked up.”

We asked one of our KATUSAs (Korean Augmented to the US Army) to translate and find out what had happened. KATUSAs worked with us and spoke English—a good gig compared to serving in the ROK Army, where conditions were notoriously harsh. (The ROK soldiers weren’t exactly fond of the KATUSAs, either.)


The KATUSA explained that the soldier had been showing off to his girlfriend and decided to try cutting a Soju bottle in half—with his bare hand.

Because why not? Like many things, probably sounded great in theory.


We sutured the hand, using subdural sutures to bring the deep edges together, followed by external sutures to close the wound.

Moral of the story: trying to cut a bottle in half with your hand is maybe not a good idea.

 

[windwalker099]

Small story...


Back in the '70s, as a medic in a US Army battalion aid station near the DMZ, Korea—Think MASH-unit.
Late one night, during my shift as an ambulance driver, we got a call from the front gate. A ROK (Republic of Korea) soldier had severely injured his hand and was bleeding profusely. The gate guards asked if they could send him up for treatment.

We said yes, he arrived shortly after. Upon examination, we saw that his right hand was cut down to the bone on the small finger side—what some might call the "knife edge."


He was drunk on the local homebrew, Soju (소주)—pretty harsh stuff, at that moment, a decent anesthetic.
He wasn’t feeling much pain. His English, limited, kept repeating, “I f**ked up.”

We asked one of our KATUSAs (Korean Augmented to the US Army) to translate and find out what had happened. KATUSAs worked with us and spoke English—a good gig compared to serving in the ROK Army, where conditions were notoriously harsh. (The ROK soldiers weren’t exactly fond of the KATUSAs, either.)


The KATUSA explained that the soldier had been showing off to his girlfriend and decided to try cutting a Soju bottle in half—with his bare hand.

Because why not? Like many things, probably sounded great in theory.


We sutured the hand, using subdural sutures to bring the deep edges together, followed by external sutures to close the wound.

Moral of the story: trying to cut a bottle in half with your hand is maybe not a good idea.

correction : battalion aid station should’ve been “division aid station” 2ID in Korea

 

[Same Trick]

Small story...


Back in the '70s, as a medic in a US Army battalion aid station near the DMZ, Korea—Think MASH-unit.
Late one night, during my shift as an ambulance driver, we got a call from the front gate. A ROK (Republic of Korea) soldier had severely injured his hand and was bleeding profusely. The gate guards asked if they could send him up for treatment.

We said yes, he arrived shortly after. Upon examination, we saw that his right hand was cut down to the bone on the small finger side—what some might call the "knife edge."


He was drunk on the local homebrew, Soju (소주)—pretty harsh stuff, at that moment, a decent anesthetic.
He wasn’t feeling much pain. His English, limited, kept repeating, “I f**ked up.”

We asked one of our KATUSAs (Korean Augmented to the US Army) to translate and find out what had happened. KATUSAs worked with us and spoke English—a good gig compared to serving in the ROK Army, where conditions were notoriously harsh. (The ROK soldiers weren’t exactly fond of the KATUSAs, either.)


The KATUSA explained that the soldier had been showing off to his girlfriend and decided to try cutting a Soju bottle in half—with his bare hand.

Because why not? Like many things, probably sounded great in theory.


We sutured the hand, using subdural sutures to bring the deep edges together, followed by external sutures to close the wound.

Moral of the story: trying to cut a bottle in half with your hand is maybe not a good idea.

He had probably read one or two “Oyama” books

In late 1980’s when I was in Okinawa for a couple of months, my initial lodging was at a small hostel in a room of six beds, there were me and four guys from mainland Japan, with help of dictionaries they came to understand that I was there to study Karate and immediately they related to Oyamas bull”fighting” escapades, that seem the only thing they knew about karate and had no clue they were at the very cradle of karate, they were there just for the beaches….and liquor .

 

[windwalker099]

He had probably read one or two “Oyama” books

This was at a time when Korea was still under martial law.

Koreans in the ROK Army at the time were pretty hard core...in MA training,
and military training in general. They were pretty tough...

Don't think they would need to read a book or something to do it, or try it..

Breaking a bottle as shown in Oyama's demo can be dangerous.

Another method using the hand to slap the top of bottle while holding it..
Most should be able to pop out the bottom...

note: If the bottom doesn't pop out, the force will come back to the point of origin,
your hand .

Much safer, make sure its done outside or over a sink.....

using subdural sutures

Another mistype,,,,correction " using subcutaneous sutures "

getting old...

 

[Same Trick]

One could perhaps imagine that a silly idea of beating a spiritus bottle into shards after content been consumed could pop the mind, but before ?!