Wado Ryu

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Jeff Cook

Robert, good to find you here! As ornery as you are, I figured you would appreciate the company of a friend who understands where you are coming from.

You know me too well!

Originally posted by Jeff Cook

As you and I have discussed before, everybody puts their own spin on "history." I don't imagine that the information in the link I provided is very different, but I found it compelling to find this remark at the beginning of the article: "The official history of Wado-Ryu translated by Kazutaka Otsuka in an
interview with Grand Master Hironori Otsuka II," and another comment at the end of the article alluding to copyright of the Otsuka family.

This is true, and I think folks that write their own "history" have also done what most people do on their Resumes........they sometimes expand the truth a bit if you know what I mean. Case in point below.

Originally posted by Jeff Cook

I do wonder about the claim "He succeeded the 4th generation of Shinto Yoshin Ryu" is truly accurate. As the current headmasters of the various shinto yoshin branches point out, having menkyo kaiden is NOT the same as "taking over" a ryu, and they all dispute this little Otsuka-version of history.

Maybe this is good for getting more students..................

 

[Mike Clarke]

If you talk to older Okinawans, as I have often done, they refer to Japanese people in the same way they refer to any other non-Okinawan, as outsiders.
I have a t.v. interview of my late sensei, Eiichi Miyazato sensei and he is speaking in his native Hogen for much of it. Japanese I know can't translate for me what he's saying.
Anyone who has been to both Japan and Okinawa will understand that the two places are VERY different. not only the language, but the achitecture, costume, music, art, customs etc etc.
Maybe the younger Okinwans think of themselves as Japanese?
But the older generations still feel like Ryukyujin.
I also know having trained in Japanese karatedo (Shito-ryu) for ten years before going to Okinawa to begin training in Goju-ryu, that the difference in their karate is also quite marked.
I have some footage of Funakoshi sensei doing kata and he looks nothing like the typical shotokan karate-ka we see today. If anything his kata look more like shoto-kai.

Mike

 

[RyuShiKan]

Mike,

I was sitting in a an Okinawan restaurant in Kawasaki City one day and one of the customers looked over at me and said "you and me same in Japan.".
Not having any idea what he was talking about I asked him exactly what he meant by that.
He said "you and me same in Japan, Japanese treat us both like sxxt.". He went on to tell me how Okinawans are openly discriminated against in Japan. Kinda reminded me of the stories of how blacks were treated in "The Deep South".
They used to be a different country, hence the totally different language. Many Japanese and some Okinawan people use the word Okinawa Ben or Hogen but it is not correct. Ben or Hogen indicate that they come from the same root language but in this case Okinawan doesn't come from Japanese at all. I think they have started calling it a "ben" or hogen to eliminate some of the prejudice.
Okinawan is actually closer to Chinese than Japanese..........and not only linguistically but socially, culturally, spiritually etc..

I too have seen the 8mm Funakoshi tape now on video.........pretty shocking stuff............the boys at the JKA honbu and several other Shotokanesque dojos don't do it like that. Makes you wonder.

 

[jujutsu_indonesia]

I do wonder about the claim "He succeeded the 4th generation of Shinto Yoshin Ryu" is truly accurate. As the current headmasters of the various shinto yoshin branches point out, having menkyo kaiden is NOT the same as "taking over" a ryu, and they all dispute this little Otsuka-version of history.

succeeding the 4th generation of Shindo Yoshin-ryu does not always means that he took over as the 4th soke. It could also means that Otsuka sensei is the 4th Denjin (that's it, 4th generation person to whom the ryuha are being transmitted). It is acceptable for a menkyo holder to create his/her own branch (rather than taking over the Ryuha from the sons of the Soke ).

BTW, In the menkyo that Otsuka sensei gave to Sakura Kazuo sensei, it says Nihon-den Shinto Yoshin-ryu Kenpo. Not Shinto Yoshin-ryu Jujutsu, and especially not Hontai (mainline) Shinto Yoshin-ryu Jujutsu. I think Otsuka sensei started his own branch of SYR, and later created Wado-ryu, incorporating his branch of SYR into Wado-ryu.

Anyway, don't kick me I'm just a kyu rank student