Vunak

[Straight Blast]

A studio in my area teaches "Jeet kune Do" The instructor has a blackbelt in a traditional style of karate, but attended a Vunak training course, ( two days) now he teaches "jeet Kune Do", is this valid and would it be worth studying. I'm interested in the art, but I want to learn the real thing.

 

[gravity]

Perhaps the instructor meant he teachers R.A.T - Rapid Assault Tactics. Paul Vunak came up with this programme (based on JKD) for the millitary and people who don't have time to train for an extended period. The R.A.T program is also available on video.

R.A.T uses destructions (FMA) and interceptions to deal with the initial attack. Then you go into the straight blast (Wing Chun) and finally end up in trapping range - head butt, knees and elbows. In the program there are also sensitivity drills and trapping exercises (pak sao etc)

If the instructor did learn R.A.T and claims to teach JKD after only attending a 2 day course well...... that would certainly kill his credibility. Although R.A.T is based on JKD, it is not JKD. If you really wanted to be sure if this instructor is certified by Paul Vunak you could visit http://www.fighting.net/instructors.php or email Paul Vunak.

 

[progressivetactics]

I think real JKD instructors are pretty hard to come by. Many people teach JKD Concepts. If they claim concepts, you have much more belieabilty in their creditentials.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by progressivetactics
I think real JKD instructors are pretty hard to come by. Many people teach JKD Concepts. If they claim concepts, you have much more belieabilty in their creditentials.

Intersting! What is "your" defination of Jeet Kune Do?

I'm not being a smartass, I'm interested.

:asian:

 

[progressivetactics]

It's ok.....im not sure I have a real understanding of it myself, or explanation for it. I just know that all but one of the Jeet Kune Do instructors I ever met, really were nothing more then standard korean/jap system, with Pananjakman, wing chun, savate, and BJJ mixed in.
When I think if what JKD should be, personally, I think of 10% kicking, 10%boxing, 10%trapping, 10% grappling, 10% energy drills, 10%weapons, etc. etc... Not a standard hardfist system, which adds a chi sao drill, some low line kicks and calls itself JKD.
Just my own personal feeling about it, I guess.

 

[7starmantis]

JKD Concepts is actually a "recognized" system more or less now. I would find it hard to find a true JKD instructor now days as well, however some of that is because of the aggressivly evolving philosophy of alot of JKD'ers. I studied JKD for a couple years in college and I really liked it. Most JKD'ers I've come in contact with never stayed solely with JKD, they also went to BJJ, some striking art, were very interested in learning many systems.
To me, JKD is more a philosophy or mindset than a set of techniques or principles. Its not that a left trap/right straight sun punch is a JKD technique, it is that the idea of that move is a VERY fast, VERY powerful hit that can end an altercation in one hit possibly. Its extremely hard to defend against and is so quick by its mere nature that it is effective. That is the essence of JKD to me, not the particular movement the hands took to play the technique, but the idea of body mechanics my mind pondered milliseconds before my hands took that route.
Does that make sense at all ?

7sm

 

[progressivetactics]

i follow ya.....I agree. JKD is more of a mindset, I believe.
To just add system techniques and principles makes it "concepts".

 

[James Kovacich]

I was trained without set techniques. A lot of modified Wing Chun Drills which changed from day to day. No tech #'s 1-10. We practiced about all of the "early on" format without a "format."

In the end I developed "sensitivity" with an instict to stop whatevers coming at me. Thats the Macias method which opened up my world.

When I started with BJJ my sensitivity naturally began to flow to within my lower body.

As far as "my definition," I think just like Bruce said, " My Jeet Kune Do is not your Jeet Kune Do." I teach a modified expanded Jun Fan Gung-Fu along with Jujitsu. Some will say its JKD and some will say it isn't.

If the name is the problem, then discard it, its just a boat to cross the river.

:asian:

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by Straight Blast
A studio in my area teaches "Jeet kune Do" The instructor has a blackbelt in a traditional style of karate, but attended a Vunak training course, ( two days) now he teaches "jeet Kune Do", is this valid and would it be worth studying. I'm interested in the art, but I want to learn the real thing.

How can someone who has only attended a 2 day camp, claim to teach JKD?? This guy is doing nothing but fooling his students into thinking that he knows JKD. It is sad because alot of people do this. They train with someone, get their pic. taken with them, go back to their school and hang it on the wall, and tell everybody that comes in to sign up, "Look, I trained with Paul Vunak" Do your homework and make sure that the Inst that you train under knows his/her stuff. Why waste your hard earned money on a fake!

MJS

 

[Pyros]

I think this is all about this: http://www.fighting.net/training.php

See section 3 down and below it see that you get a certificate to teach what you learn during the two days.

The whole point of that seminar is to show how easy it is to beat someone who doesn't know trapping, with trapping. Two days of training in trapping range will beat half the TKD/Karate/Kenpo black belts before they know what hit them. Because trapping is still a range so few understand. And Vunak has this special two day course where he teaches the basics. You are then allowed to teach exactly what you learned during those two days but nothing more. And you are on your own as far as learning how to actually use that stuff - meaning you must continue training with partners to drive the stuff into your spine.

 

[MJS]

The very last paragraph at the bottom also mentions being an Inst. candidate. Then you become eligible to become a full Inst. It might be possible, but I myself, would not feel right about doing something that I'm not certified in. I mean, its one thing if you've been doing it for a while, but after only 2 days??? I mean, I could take someone and work with them for 8hrs a day, 2x, and teach them Kenpo. But are they really going to have that good of an understanding about it? Everybody is different, so maybe that is the case. Dont get me wrong, I'm not knocking Vunak. ... He defiantely knows his stuff. I'm just questioning the learning process.

Just my opinion

MJS

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Pyros
I think this is all about this: http://www.fighting.net/training.php

See section 3 down and below it see that you get a certificate to teach what you learn during the two days.

The whole point of that seminar is to show how easy it is to beat someone who doesn't know trapping, with trapping. Two days of training in trapping range will beat half the TKD/Karate/Kenpo black belts before they know what hit them. Because trapping is still a range so few understand. And Vunak has this special two day course where he teaches the basics. You are then allowed to teach exactly what you learned during those two days but nothing more. And you are on your own as far as learning how to actually use that stuff - meaning you must continue training with partners to drive the stuff into your spine. [/QUOTE

2 days of trapping dosen't amount to anything no matter who teaches it. I've got my first 2 years on video tape with my Sifu and after about 5 months we can notice the "flow" to develop.

I'd like to see a "2 day trapper" on the first day he tries to teach it!

 

[progressivetactics]

i'm not sure he meant it quite like he wrote it (Pyros).
The 2 day course shows principles you can bust out of the trapping range, mostly the headbutt, knee and elbows. Also, the lock flow drills. He doesn't actually teach much trapping. Plus, he strongly advises that trapping is merely 1 attribute of the whole situation. It is not the endall/be all, by any means. His training will spend more time for non martial artists, dealing with lock flow drills and some H.K.E. For more experienced martial artists, he limits the lock flow series, uses the HKE, and mixes in other things. His whole philosophy is really geared from STARTING at the trapping range, although he teaches, and works other ranges as well.

I hope i didn't muddy up the waters worse with my version.
I apologize if I mis-spoke Pyros.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by progressivetactics
i'm not sure he meant it quite like he wrote it (Pyros).
The 2 day course shows principles you can bust out of the trapping range, mostly the headbutt, knee and elbows. Also, the lock flow drills. He doesn't actually teach much trapping. Plus, he strongly advises that trapping is merely 1 attribute of the whole situation. It is not the endall/be all, by any means. His training will spend more time for non martial artists, dealing with lock flow drills and some H.K.E. For more experienced martial artists, he limits the lock flow series, uses the HKE, and mixes in other things. His whole philosophy is really geared from STARTING at the trapping range, although he teaches, and works other ranges as well.

I hope i didn't muddy up the waters worse with my version.
I apologize if I mis-spoke Pyros.

Voo is a great martial artist, and the "trapping range" is more than just trapping. I slightly misread it. In my head I was thinking someones going to try and teach trapping after a 2 day seminar.

Roy Harris, Voo's vice president, is one of my former instructors(BJJ) teacher. I did some privates in BJJ under Roy and hope to head down there. So if I'm lucky maybe I'll get a chance to meet and learn from Voo someday too.

:asian:

 

[Straight Blast]

Thanks for al the replys: I noticed from watching the class that it all took place at close range, Headbutts, elbows, knees, etc.., I have to admit though that when I watched one of his students explode into his opponent, I was impressed( the opponent was wearing padding and a motorcycle helmet) The attacker threw some kind of finger whip at the opponent eyes, when he flinged back the attacker closed an really put it to him, quickly and devastating, not to many people could have stood up to the attack. This is the reason I have so much confusion about training there, not much of a background, but very effective. I did check Vunaks website and found the instructors name listed under certified instructors. He dosen't charge much and no contract, maybe I'll give it a try.

 

[arnisador]

My JKD instructor is under Paul Vunak. We were doing some "RAT drills" this morning (straight blast to HKE).

 

[progressivetactics]

cool stuff....i never get tired of lock flow, to rat (straight blast) hke and back to lock flow drills......

sometimes we mix the grappling in..sometimes we mix the savate or muay thai in and spice it up even more.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by progressivetactics
sometimes we mix the grappling in..sometimes we mix the savate or muay thai in and spice it up even more.

Same here, though we don't do much with savate (just a little).