http://d-fens.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=5179966&publicUserId=5629740
Interesting read, might make for some interesting discussion. (Language warning)
Interesting read, might make for some interesting discussion. (Language warning)
Violence in video games.
- Thread starter Andrew Green
- Start date
Cruentus
Grandmaster
That guy's post was moronic, and an indicator of someone who needs to grow up.
Despite the straw man arguement that gamers often present, no one being logical claims that violent video games and media "makes" someone violent.
However, it is pretty well proven that violent media desensitizes people to violence through positive reinforcement, thus supressing that part of our consious that tells us not to perform violent acts.
Paul
Despite the straw man arguement that gamers often present, no one being logical claims that violent video games and media "makes" someone violent.
However, it is pretty well proven that violent media desensitizes people to violence through positive reinforcement, thus supressing that part of our consious that tells us not to perform violent acts.
Paul
My personal opinion... the guy is an idiot.
Violence never solved anything... it may have prevented more violence but it didn't take care of the problem.
How young people today are reared by their parents weighs heavily upon how they turn out tomorrow, the next week or ten years from now.
IMO parents are ultimately responsible for the actions of their children until they reach the age where society determines them self-accountable. This goes for those teenagers running rampant on the streets as gang members. It goes for latch-key kids and dual working parent households. Not all kids turn out bad, but as we've been seeing lately not all kids turn out good. Question is how to make more good kids than bad kids?
Many people want to lay the blame but there are few who are willing to take the blame it seems.
Violent video games, movies, songs (i.e. "Cop-Killer and their predecessors) and anything else that kids are exposed to; racial and social class hatred, sex, crime (overall) and so forth have influence upon their behavior but it only gives them the means in which to act out their choices. A child growing up without proper guidance to what is a good/bad choice, what is right/wrong, how to behave and respond appropriately should something upset us will enact out their feelings via methods learned through their various media exposures. Young minds are easily impressionable. They take in a multitude of stimuli via video and audio and other sources. How can they manage to sort out the good and the bad all by themselves? They are simply incapable of doing so... period. They need an older and more experienced view point to help them.
Parents have to take a proactive stance in what their children are exposed to and have to guide and teach them the values which will not lead to violence or to know when is violence necessary... really necessary. They have to let them know what is the good and the bad. Kids are wanting to know and need that trusting voice to tell them. The trusting voice should be the parent. Followed by responsible adults, i.e. teachers and athletic coaches and so forth.
We've become a nation so dependent upon the "easy way of life". Raising our children seems to become part of that mainstream. Seems too difficult to say NO to our children when they want GTA or Hitman or any other violent game. "they're fun!" "they're cool!" ... fine here's the game now get out of my face.
Who's teaching the kid? Certianly not the parent that indulges the child to be exposed to such material for hours on end.
RANT RANT RANT... geez what's the point? I seem to have lost it.
Violence never solved anything... it may have prevented more violence but it didn't take care of the problem.
How young people today are reared by their parents weighs heavily upon how they turn out tomorrow, the next week or ten years from now.
IMO parents are ultimately responsible for the actions of their children until they reach the age where society determines them self-accountable. This goes for those teenagers running rampant on the streets as gang members. It goes for latch-key kids and dual working parent households. Not all kids turn out bad, but as we've been seeing lately not all kids turn out good. Question is how to make more good kids than bad kids?
Many people want to lay the blame but there are few who are willing to take the blame it seems.
Violent video games, movies, songs (i.e. "Cop-Killer and their predecessors) and anything else that kids are exposed to; racial and social class hatred, sex, crime (overall) and so forth have influence upon their behavior but it only gives them the means in which to act out their choices. A child growing up without proper guidance to what is a good/bad choice, what is right/wrong, how to behave and respond appropriately should something upset us will enact out their feelings via methods learned through their various media exposures. Young minds are easily impressionable. They take in a multitude of stimuli via video and audio and other sources. How can they manage to sort out the good and the bad all by themselves? They are simply incapable of doing so... period. They need an older and more experienced view point to help them.
Parents have to take a proactive stance in what their children are exposed to and have to guide and teach them the values which will not lead to violence or to know when is violence necessary... really necessary. They have to let them know what is the good and the bad. Kids are wanting to know and need that trusting voice to tell them. The trusting voice should be the parent. Followed by responsible adults, i.e. teachers and athletic coaches and so forth.
We've become a nation so dependent upon the "easy way of life". Raising our children seems to become part of that mainstream. Seems too difficult to say NO to our children when they want GTA or Hitman or any other violent game. "they're fun!" "they're cool!" ... fine here's the game now get out of my face.
Who's teaching the kid? Certianly not the parent that indulges the child to be exposed to such material for hours on end.
RANT RANT RANT... geez what's the point? I seem to have lost it.
evenflow1121
2nd Black Belt
I think a lot of the problem deals with parental responsibility or rather a lack thereof. The internet, the video game machines, or any other source of relax out there is not going to raise their child. And while an 18+ year old may play a lot of those violent games and not take them seriously, ever so often when I walk into an electronics store I see kids whose parents are purchasing these types of games for them without a clue in the world as to their contents. So long as it gets the kid to 'shut-up' so they can watch their sitcoms, is fine by them.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #5
related article http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=5179663&publicUserId=5345401
Tulisan said:
You're right about the no one being logical aspect of this, but on the other hand, the bulk of people doing studies on this topic come in with a set agenda. One study found no links, but concluded with "While no links have been found, this means the right tests have not been developed, and finding a link between violent video games and violent behaviour is only a matter of time."
Also cut to all the Grossman fueled "murder simulator" rhetoric that popped uo around the time of the Columbine killings. Logic and/or common sense have little to do with rhetoric capable of swawing public opinion. Those illogical claims have been leveled. Joseph Lieberman loves 'em for example.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #7
I'd be more willing to put money on violent video games WITH proper guidance resulting in less violence, giving violent people a release that doesn't result in real violence.
But "violence is bad and thats the end of it" doesn't do anyone any good. People need a release, whether it is real (sports) or fantasy (video games, D&D) doesn't matter, as long as there is a release
But what is more violent, football or Grand Theft Auto? One is real people hurting each other, the other is just computer generated people in a make believe world...
But "violence is bad and thats the end of it" doesn't do anyone any good. People need a release, whether it is real (sports) or fantasy (video games, D&D) doesn't matter, as long as there is a release
But what is more violent, football or Grand Theft Auto? One is real people hurting each other, the other is just computer generated people in a make believe world...
An 18 yr old might not take them seriously or even a 16 or 17 yr old. But these games are readily accessable to 9 to 14 yr olds (or younger), via internet downloads, older siblings, friends who's older siblings may have them and so forth. I've seen young kids of that lower age group buy/rent these games with/without parental supervision/accompanyment. Maybe the larger store chains won't sell them to "minors" but less scrupluous or less caring smaller stores will. These kids will get their hands on them either way if they want them bad enough.evenflow1121 said:
The key is still the parents; visually inspecting all game, video and music material for "unsuitable content and confiscating anything that they deem "unsuitable" for their child. But it's a double edged sword there isn't it? We presume that the parent knows what's best for their child and what is or isn't suitable material for them. As you've observed "so long as it gets the kid to shut-up and leave them alone..."
But in a "free-society" who are we to dictate how parents raise their children? "One man's porn is another man's art" as the saying goes. Same goes for what is suitable/unsuitable violence.
But the effects are subtle and easily overlooked or poo poo-ed as "not that bad". I'm sure that there are studies being conducted by the authors of such material and those studies are of course for marketing purposes. How best to line their pockets, rather than how best to help minimize influential effects of their products upon the younger generation(s). Ah but they need to suit the whims and desires of the older generations too don't they? Thus slapping on "parental advisory" labels helps (in their eyes) ensure that said "adult-oriented" material doesn't make it into a minor's hands. Good luck with that eh?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #9
Movies are accessible to those that want too see them too and have been for years.
There may be restrictions, they might even be enforced better then game restrictions, but they are still easy to get around.
And there is not many games that are more "mature" then what can be seen on tv durring prime time. Unless the person playing them makes them that way.
There may be restrictions, they might even be enforced better then game restrictions, but they are still easy to get around.
And there is not many games that are more "mature" then what can be seen on tv durring prime time. Unless the person playing them makes them that way.
Yari
Master Black Belt
materiale deamed unproper has been around as long as man could think and socilize(sp?). If it was porn or movies or just a plan book, there were times people meant that it would ruin society or the individual, corrupt poeples thoughts. Comics were ruled as beeing descentitizing(sp?), so were books before that, yes and even the radio was deamed an anti socilizing factor (also the TV got "shot" at, long before voilence started on it).
But today comics in general nobody thinks badly of, nor the TV it self, not even books. It's the content itself thats a problem. Or really how people feel about that content.
So its the peronal realationship to that content that is inportant and in question.
Theres no doubt in my mind that if you don't relate to the content you exposed too, or your siblings are exposed to you wont have the option to decied how it should effect you or your siblings.
Which brings me to the point were I agree with another person in this thread that we should learn how to handle these things.
/Yari
But today comics in general nobody thinks badly of, nor the TV it self, not even books. It's the content itself thats a problem. Or really how people feel about that content.
So its the peronal realationship to that content that is inportant and in question.
Theres no doubt in my mind that if you don't relate to the content you exposed too, or your siblings are exposed to you wont have the option to decied how it should effect you or your siblings.
Which brings me to the point were I agree with another person in this thread that we should learn how to handle these things.
/Yari
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2004
- Messages
- 4,753
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Lets try and cut through the "rhetoric" and get to the "logic". Many people who are resisting the idea of any link between violence and video games are adults who wish to retain access to those same video games. Talk about going in to the discussion with an ulterior motive.
I myself enjoy some violent video games, but i'm also 30 years old and have developed, for the most part, the ability to seperate the fantasy from the reality. It's not quite the same with young children and teenagers. I also have a 2 year old daughter, and I will not expose her to the contents of even some of the more mild video game material, as well as violent media of other sorts. As a father I am much more aware than I used to be about the effects of media on children. I do not watch movies with even mild violent or sexual content in her presence. I watch daily how even the most insignificant interactions that I take for granted, impact her learning process.
Lets do a simple test of our feelings on the matter.
Should we allow access to young children (consider it any age under 13) to violent video games such as grand theft auto?
Would you feel comfortable in a society that felt that exposing young children to this type of material was appropriate?
Do you feel that material that ties two powerful psychological forces together, such as sex and violence, has an even more powerful psychological effect?
Do you believe that we can desensitize people to violence through powerful media and thereby reduce resistance to violence? If so, what psychological triggers are most effective in creating this violence enabling?
Since we are primarily sensory creatures, do you believe that what we choose to focus our senses on has a direct impact on our actions?
If it isn't sensory imput that effects our actions, by what process do we
acquire knowledge about the world?
In closing I must admit, again, that I myself enjoy certain violent video games on occassion. However, my concern is that while adults may be able to handle this kind of violent imagery, it's effects on young adolescents concerns me. I'd like to close with this question.
If you had a 12 year old child and you came across a grisly murder scene of violent death and dismemberment, would you allow your 12 year old child to view that scene if you could prevent it? Why or why not?
Still, the ultimate problem is parents not parenting. Of course, that's fine for me, I parent. I have no control over how the morons down the block raise their children.
I myself enjoy some violent video games, but i'm also 30 years old and have developed, for the most part, the ability to seperate the fantasy from the reality. It's not quite the same with young children and teenagers. I also have a 2 year old daughter, and I will not expose her to the contents of even some of the more mild video game material, as well as violent media of other sorts. As a father I am much more aware than I used to be about the effects of media on children. I do not watch movies with even mild violent or sexual content in her presence. I watch daily how even the most insignificant interactions that I take for granted, impact her learning process.
Lets do a simple test of our feelings on the matter.
Should we allow access to young children (consider it any age under 13) to violent video games such as grand theft auto?
Would you feel comfortable in a society that felt that exposing young children to this type of material was appropriate?
Do you feel that material that ties two powerful psychological forces together, such as sex and violence, has an even more powerful psychological effect?
Do you believe that we can desensitize people to violence through powerful media and thereby reduce resistance to violence? If so, what psychological triggers are most effective in creating this violence enabling?
Since we are primarily sensory creatures, do you believe that what we choose to focus our senses on has a direct impact on our actions?
If it isn't sensory imput that effects our actions, by what process do we
acquire knowledge about the world?
In closing I must admit, again, that I myself enjoy certain violent video games on occassion. However, my concern is that while adults may be able to handle this kind of violent imagery, it's effects on young adolescents concerns me. I'd like to close with this question.
If you had a 12 year old child and you came across a grisly murder scene of violent death and dismemberment, would you allow your 12 year old child to view that scene if you could prevent it? Why or why not?
Still, the ultimate problem is parents not parenting. Of course, that's fine for me, I parent. I have no control over how the morons down the block raise their children.
Lets do a simple test of our feelings on the matter.
Well okay, but remember you're asking for our feelings... I gotta ask first though (at the risk of sounding like Spock), ... are feelings... logical?
Should we allow access to young children (consider it any age under 13) to violent video games such as grand theft auto?
My feelings on it... no. My logical and rational thoughts on it... again, no. Young minds are not capable of sorting out the right/wrong of the images and understanding the implications of what they're seeing. They see a guy driving at high speed (eluding the police btw) and at times causing auto accidents and running people down (intentionally and unintentionally). Shooting people and beating them with various impliments of bodily destruction. Is a child (under the age of 13) going to properly see that this is just mere fantasy and not what people do in real life... hell, they see it on the news don't they? They get this reality information from dozens of sources. They're not going to think at some point... this is normal? This is acceptable behavior? Not all of them will... but some might. We just can't tell. Question is do we want to take the risk?
There's also the moral question of it all. Is it really OKAY to let kids be exposed to such things? Ok to whom? And why?
Would you feel comfortable in a society that felt that exposing young children to this type of material was appropriate?
Of course not. But the (majority) of a society in any given area/city/country will dictate what is appropriate and what is not. Thailand says it's okay for an adult to lay down (sexually) with a child. The U.S. (and -- thankfully -- many other countries) says it is not. But that can change ... couldn't it? If society as a whole here (in the U.S.) says that it's okay for young kids to see extreme violent material or sexually explict material then yes I would be very uncomfortable about it.
Do you feel that material that ties two powerful psychological forces together, such as sex and violence, has an even more powerful psychological effect?
If it has an (proven) effect on adults then wouldn't it have an even more powerful (if misunderstood) effect on children?
Do you believe that we can desensitize people to violence through powerful media and thereby reduce resistance to violence? If so, what psychological triggers are most effective in creating this violence enabling?
When I was a kid I watched movies i.e. the Godfather, Bonnie and Clyde, The Wild Bunch and a host of others. I recall being disturbed by them (as a kid), obviously so because I recall the effect they had on me. Now, I can watch movies with such violence as Saving Private Ryan, Dawn of the Dead, Scarface (Pacino), The Usual Suspects and so forth and not be bothered by the violence in it in the same way. Desensititzed? :idunno: mebbe. Some folks are still bothered by it, it depends upon one's view point. And that changes with age and experience. Having directly experienced violence in the real world and seeing it inflicted upon others, one might say that I'm desenstitized to it. But it didn't desensitized me to the effects that it has on kids. In many respects the violence (and sex) in our media today is radically more so than it was when I was younger. This is not minimizing the media back then but to say that it's more permissive. Witness: Two Angry Beavers, Ed- Edd and Eddie, Ren and Stimpy and so forth. These are examples. Kung Fu Fighter was a game (in my youth) about some bruce lee look-a-like kicking and beating up antagonists ala "game of death" ascension to the big boss, no different in concept than say the Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat games and their subsquent clones today... but the violence with those games is terribly realistic. More blood and gore are undeniably evident. Over time these playstation/x-box players will be desensitized to it. Desensitation doesn't happen overnight.
Since we are primarily sensory creatures, do you believe that what we choose to focus our senses on has a direct impact on our actions?
I'll ask you as a martial artist... shouldn't you already know the answer to that question? For me (as a MA-ist) the answer is yes. I don't use the force and I don't have eyes in the back of my head and I don't have super hearing so what I do sense around me in my immediate environment has influence upon my response(s). Training and practice and experience however does help control immediate responses. This is something a child will not have.
If it isn't sensory imput that effects our actions, by what process do we acquire knowledge about the world? Our sensory input is only part of our learning processes. What we read, and hear from others gives us more information. Our personal experiences and interaction with others over the years will teach us more. We are always and constantly learning and analyzing data through our five senses and the data input into our brains. The result however will be different from person to person.
In closing I must admit, again, that I myself enjoy certain violent video games on occassion. However, my concern is that while adults may be able to handle this kind of violent imagery, it's effects on young adolescents concerns me. I'd like to close with this question.
I'll admit as well that I like a good game that has some shoot-em up action in it... to a point.
If you had a 12 year old child and you came across a grisly murder scene of violent death and dismemberment, would you allow your 12 year old child to view that scene if you could prevent it? Why or why not?
If I can prevent it of course I would do my best to avert their eyes, turn them away, send them out of the room ... whatever! In a scene from Star Trek TNG The mother of Worf's child was brutally murdered. Worf and his son walk in the room and see the body. Instead of turning the child away he told his son to take a good look. Well, that's Klingon culture for you. But we're human and while we (seem to be) a very war-like species we still would not (and should not) allow children to see such things. For me it's not civilized and it's not moral. Kids know there's a war going on in Iraq, they know that people are being killed everyday by suicide bombers. They know this information.... surely they don't need to see it (the images available on the internet) do they?
Still, the ultimate problem is parents not parenting. Of course, that's fine for me, I parent. I have no control over how the morons down the block raise their children.
No, you don't... but you DO have control of who's kids your kids play with, don't you? Mebbe you cannot prevent them from associating with them while at school. But you can forbid and hopefully they'll obey. You can deny them sleep-overs and visits. You still retain the right of who your kids play/associate with.
Oh and remember this... the "morons down the block"... they might think the same of you. :wink1:
Well okay, but remember you're asking for our feelings... I gotta ask first though (at the risk of sounding like Spock), ... are feelings... logical?
Should we allow access to young children (consider it any age under 13) to violent video games such as grand theft auto?
My feelings on it... no. My logical and rational thoughts on it... again, no. Young minds are not capable of sorting out the right/wrong of the images and understanding the implications of what they're seeing. They see a guy driving at high speed (eluding the police btw) and at times causing auto accidents and running people down (intentionally and unintentionally). Shooting people and beating them with various impliments of bodily destruction. Is a child (under the age of 13) going to properly see that this is just mere fantasy and not what people do in real life... hell, they see it on the news don't they? They get this reality information from dozens of sources. They're not going to think at some point... this is normal? This is acceptable behavior? Not all of them will... but some might. We just can't tell. Question is do we want to take the risk?
There's also the moral question of it all. Is it really OKAY to let kids be exposed to such things? Ok to whom? And why?
Would you feel comfortable in a society that felt that exposing young children to this type of material was appropriate?
Of course not. But the (majority) of a society in any given area/city/country will dictate what is appropriate and what is not. Thailand says it's okay for an adult to lay down (sexually) with a child. The U.S. (and -- thankfully -- many other countries) says it is not. But that can change ... couldn't it? If society as a whole here (in the U.S.) says that it's okay for young kids to see extreme violent material or sexually explict material then yes I would be very uncomfortable about it.
Do you feel that material that ties two powerful psychological forces together, such as sex and violence, has an even more powerful psychological effect?
If it has an (proven) effect on adults then wouldn't it have an even more powerful (if misunderstood) effect on children?
Do you believe that we can desensitize people to violence through powerful media and thereby reduce resistance to violence? If so, what psychological triggers are most effective in creating this violence enabling?
When I was a kid I watched movies i.e. the Godfather, Bonnie and Clyde, The Wild Bunch and a host of others. I recall being disturbed by them (as a kid), obviously so because I recall the effect they had on me. Now, I can watch movies with such violence as Saving Private Ryan, Dawn of the Dead, Scarface (Pacino), The Usual Suspects and so forth and not be bothered by the violence in it in the same way. Desensititzed? :idunno: mebbe. Some folks are still bothered by it, it depends upon one's view point. And that changes with age and experience. Having directly experienced violence in the real world and seeing it inflicted upon others, one might say that I'm desenstitized to it. But it didn't desensitized me to the effects that it has on kids. In many respects the violence (and sex) in our media today is radically more so than it was when I was younger. This is not minimizing the media back then but to say that it's more permissive. Witness: Two Angry Beavers, Ed- Edd and Eddie, Ren and Stimpy and so forth. These are examples. Kung Fu Fighter was a game (in my youth) about some bruce lee look-a-like kicking and beating up antagonists ala "game of death" ascension to the big boss, no different in concept than say the Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat games and their subsquent clones today... but the violence with those games is terribly realistic. More blood and gore are undeniably evident. Over time these playstation/x-box players will be desensitized to it. Desensitation doesn't happen overnight.
Since we are primarily sensory creatures, do you believe that what we choose to focus our senses on has a direct impact on our actions?
I'll ask you as a martial artist... shouldn't you already know the answer to that question? For me (as a MA-ist) the answer is yes. I don't use the force and I don't have eyes in the back of my head and I don't have super hearing so what I do sense around me in my immediate environment has influence upon my response(s). Training and practice and experience however does help control immediate responses. This is something a child will not have.
If it isn't sensory imput that effects our actions, by what process do we acquire knowledge about the world? Our sensory input is only part of our learning processes. What we read, and hear from others gives us more information. Our personal experiences and interaction with others over the years will teach us more. We are always and constantly learning and analyzing data through our five senses and the data input into our brains. The result however will be different from person to person.
In closing I must admit, again, that I myself enjoy certain violent video games on occassion. However, my concern is that while adults may be able to handle this kind of violent imagery, it's effects on young adolescents concerns me. I'd like to close with this question.
I'll admit as well that I like a good game that has some shoot-em up action in it... to a point.
If you had a 12 year old child and you came across a grisly murder scene of violent death and dismemberment, would you allow your 12 year old child to view that scene if you could prevent it? Why or why not?
If I can prevent it of course I would do my best to avert their eyes, turn them away, send them out of the room ... whatever! In a scene from Star Trek TNG The mother of Worf's child was brutally murdered. Worf and his son walk in the room and see the body. Instead of turning the child away he told his son to take a good look. Well, that's Klingon culture for you. But we're human and while we (seem to be) a very war-like species we still would not (and should not) allow children to see such things. For me it's not civilized and it's not moral. Kids know there's a war going on in Iraq, they know that people are being killed everyday by suicide bombers. They know this information.... surely they don't need to see it (the images available on the internet) do they?
Still, the ultimate problem is parents not parenting. Of course, that's fine for me, I parent. I have no control over how the morons down the block raise their children.
No, you don't... but you DO have control of who's kids your kids play with, don't you? Mebbe you cannot prevent them from associating with them while at school. But you can forbid and hopefully they'll obey. You can deny them sleep-overs and visits. You still retain the right of who your kids play/associate with.
Oh and remember this... the "morons down the block"... they might think the same of you. :wink1:
Yari
Master Black Belt
When I play now it's mostly " I win over evebody else" kind of game. It really doesn't matter if its a board game, video game or fantasy game og just plan running in the forest.
When my father played with his friends, they played "cops and robbers", killing each other, blowing things up, even influcting wounds on each other. They even palyed in eviroments the were very hazardes to their lives. they also played WW2, germans against everbody else, killing and hacking on the germans. It also was a question of winning.
When my grand father played with his friends they played "Cos and robbers", tieing each other to trees, throwing them off roofs, using "weapons". They also were part of the houshold that killed animals, drained their blood, saw them die, even saw their friends and family die of things like common colds or the like. Also important the winning aspect.
I'm not saying that I want to let my two daughters to experience voilence. But trying to focus that maybe we humans are capbable of handling things better than expected, and we should be careful not to go over the edge (on the other side). We could become so "sensitive" that saying "boh" to somebody might just crack their selfesteem.
Dont forget that the reason you can defined your logik now is that your experince has given you that chance. Your taking it away if you try and stop letting children (or somebody of the same mental level) experiencing it.
/Yari
When my father played with his friends, they played "cops and robbers", killing each other, blowing things up, even influcting wounds on each other. They even palyed in eviroments the were very hazardes to their lives. they also played WW2, germans against everbody else, killing and hacking on the germans. It also was a question of winning.
When my grand father played with his friends they played "Cos and robbers", tieing each other to trees, throwing them off roofs, using "weapons". They also were part of the houshold that killed animals, drained their blood, saw them die, even saw their friends and family die of things like common colds or the like. Also important the winning aspect.
I'm not saying that I want to let my two daughters to experience voilence. But trying to focus that maybe we humans are capbable of handling things better than expected, and we should be careful not to go over the edge (on the other side). We could become so "sensitive" that saying "boh" to somebody might just crack their selfesteem.
Dont forget that the reason you can defined your logik now is that your experince has given you that chance. Your taking it away if you try and stop letting children (or somebody of the same mental level) experiencing it.
/Yari
Cruentus
Grandmaster
sgtmac_46 said:
Absolutely....boy, talk about pointing out the big pink elephant in the room...
I'd like to add that given my fairly libertarian viewpoint, I am not for outlawing violent games. Just let parents do the parenting, propigate the warning labels that are in place, and don't let kids under 18 buy games with certian labels. All this is mostly to make parents aware. I feel that a major problem is that parents aren't aware of the effects that these games might have on the developement of their kids, so they pretty much let their kids own whatever games they want.
But to seriously argue that games like these don't play a role in desensitization to violence is silly and irresponsable in my opinion. Why not just simply tell the truth, and say something like, "Violent video games could play a role in desensitizing people to violence, which is why that even though I like to play them for a variety of reasons outside of the violent nature of the games, I don't recommend them for kids or teens." That, to me, would be much more of a responsable arguement.
Paul
Cruentus
Grandmaster
Yari said:
Most people miss the point with the arguement about games/media propigating violence.
When kids are running around the yard and playing cops and robbers, there is both positive and negative consequence to that game. If one kid tackles the other too hard, or play's to ruff and hurts another, the kid cry's and goes home; and most kids without mental problems don't actually like to make another kid cry so this is a negative consequence. If that kid tells his mom, and that mom calls yours; negative consequence. When kids play, they see the positive and negative consequence to their physical action.
You don't get this in video games. In games today, you mostly get positive reward for doing violent acts. It is fantasy where there is no negative consequence for killing a cop, punching a girl, or ripping a dude out of his car at gunpoint and stealing it. With these games, people learn to associate positive reward (even if it is just pure enjoyment of playing the game) with violent acts. This is where the problem is. It is not just exposure to violence that is the problem. There is "good" kind of exposure (good meaning where the individual see's the negitive consequences involved with violence) and "bad" kind of exposure; and I'd rank video games and other related media up there with the "bad."
Paul
B
BaiKaiGuy
Guest
And here you hit the nail on the head. Trust me if parents did better parenting, I'd be out of a job. Too many parents spoil their kids or don't pay attentioin to what they're doing because they're just plain lazy. It doesn't take much effort to read a box before you buy something for your kid. My parents were able to say "no". I don't understand why more parents can't.sgtmac_46 said:
We let my son get Halo and Halo2 this weekend. But, I might've drawn the line at Grand Theft Auto. No theory, just a parent's intuition about the effects of such influences.
sgtmac_46 said:
Seems mainly to be teens. Adults aren't going to have their access restricted. Except for cases of the games rated 18+/AO, which most stores flat out refuse to carry unless the title is huge. (Not typically much of a loss since AO games tend to be games with heavy sex themes and no worthwhile game content to support it.)
Flatlander
Grandmaster
Besides which, I think that, as human parents, we have a responsibility to encourage our children to kill aliens. Don't you? :uhyeah:arnisador said:
Cruentus
Grandmaster
arnisador said:
That is actually a lot better then many of the games, because you aren't killing and being violent to human beings (and images of such).
