Video - Does Judo work for street fights?

[Gerry Seymour]

I remember there being a bit of a scandal about that a few years back. Judo coaches in the schools were essentially being abusive to students and negligent. Total contradiction to the spirit of Judo and the way it is normally practiced in a respectable dojo.

Some of the same happened in Aikido dojos at the time.

 

[CKB]

the article suggest they are deliberately beating students to death, that's not really the same thing, beating someone to death has a 100% mortality rate, in Japan, the UK, the USA in fact any where, if judo is involved or otherwise

I get that, but what the article also suggests, is that the beatings are done using judo, i.e. hard and reprated throws. Which brings us back to the potential use and effectiveness of judo in non-sportive combat. I am not saying judo throws are inherently lethal, just that under the right (or wrong) circumstances, they can be.

 

[CKB]

I’m not a judo expert in any way, just a lowly 3rd. kyu, but I have gotten concussions several times in practice (not even limited to randori) and competition, and while I’ll be the first to admit that I have never been stellar at ukemi, this also suggests a far higher risk of injury if someone with little or no training in ukemi is thrown with a combative intent.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I get that, but what the article also suggests, is that the beatings are done using judo, i.e. hard and reprated throws. Which brings us back to the potential use and effectiveness of judo in non-sportive combat. I am not saying judo throws are inherently lethal, just that under the right (or wrong) circumstances, they can be.

Agreed. That's what I was getting at - if you do too much falling - especially as a "corrective measure" for someone whose falls aren't up to snuff - that's essentially a beating to the body and brain. That's been done in Aikido, and there are probably examples of bad actors in boxing and Muay Thai, too. It's not the Judo that's significantly dangerous, but that specific type of practice in pretty much anything.

 

[TMA17]

I was disappointed in the video too. Breaking structure I assume is done in many arts.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you can legally punch or hit the guy, you can throw the guy.

It should be the other way around. If you can legally throw the guy, you can punch the guy.

The striking only requires 1 point contact. The throwing requires 2 or 3 points contact. When your hand have reached to your opponent's neck, but if your leg hasn't reached to his leg, your throw still won't work.

Here is an example.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It should be the other way around. If you can legally throw the guy, you can punch the guy.

The striking only requires 1 point contact. The throwing requires 2 or 3 points contact. When your hand have reached to your opponent's neck, but if your leg hasn't reached to his leg, your throw still won't work.

Here is an example.

I think he was talking about the legalities of force. As in: If legally (under law) you are allowed to respond with a punch, you're also legally allowed to respond with a throw.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I think he was talking about the legalities of force. As in: If legally (under law) you are allowed to respond with a punch, you're also legally allowed to respond with a throw.

My point is the throwing art is much more complicate than the striking art. If one can use his striking art in the street fight, it doesn't mean that he can also use his throwing art in the street fight too.

To be able to coordinate 2 points (or 3 points) contact is much harder than just to establish 1 point contact.

Also if your throw depend on your opponent's clothes, when your opponent only has T-shirt on, some of your throws that require pulling may not work well.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My point is the throwing art is much more complicate than the striking art. If one can use his striking art in the street fight, it doesn't mean that he can also use his throwing art in the street fight too.

To be able to coordinate 2 points (or 3 points) contact is much harder than just to establish 1 point contact.

Also if your throw depend on your opponent's clothes, when your opponent only has T-shirt on, some of your throws that require pulling may not work well.

I get your point, and agree. I think his point was only about legality, not availability.

 

[Martial D]

Off balancing and breaking structure.

Yes, judo provides a wonderful sd skill set, maybe even the best. Dumping someone on their head from phonebooth /breath smelling range is a damn fine way to end any altercation quickly.

 

[quasar44]

Judo is heavy based on that gi

You are better off with folk style wrestling and no gi BJJ

 

[jobo]

Judo is heavy based on that gi

You are better off with folk style wrestling and no gi BJJ

well i can tell you from experience a lack of gi does not seem to effect the ability to dump someone on the floor very much if at all, even the cheapest of tshirts wont come off in your hands if you use it as leverage to throw someone, coats, hoodies and even knitwear work just fine, it can be a problem if they are bare chested, so don't get into fights on the beach and those tight fitting heavy nylon bouncer jackets are nearly impossible to get hold of,, so for more reasons than him and his mates beating you to a pulp, dont get into a fight with a bouncer and also buy yourself a heavy nylon bouncer jacket, if nothing else looking like a bouncer is a good look in the taxi queue

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Judo is heavy based on that gi

You are better off with folk style wrestling and no gi BJJ

The changes to adapt To no-gi (especially to regular clothing) aren’t huge in most cases. Significant, but not huge.

 

[dvcochran]

well i can tell you from experience a lack of gi does not seem to effect the ability to dump someone on the floor very much if at all, even the cheapest of tshirts wont come off in your hands if you use it as leverage to throw someone, coats, hoodies and even knitwear work just fine, it can be a problem if they are bare chested, so don't get into fights on the beach and those tight fitting heavy nylon bouncer jackets are nearly impossible to get hold of,, so for more reasons than him and his mates beating you to a pulp, dont get into a fight with a bouncer and also buy yourself a heavy nylon bouncer jacket, if nothing else looking like a bouncer is a good look in the taxi queue

There are some things to consider before grabbing cloth. Cotton and polyester will stretch quite a lot, affecting the leverage created by the pull. It can feel like you are pulling on a rubber band. For example, a guy wearing a hoodie can be harder to handle than someone in a regular coat.
I love watching some of Jackie Chan's scenes. He truly is a master of using environment. The ability to use a persons clothing against them is brilliant. He has some of the best 'fight' scenes ever.

 

[jobo]

There are some things to consider before grabbing cloth. Cotton and polyester will stretch quite a lot, affecting the leverage created by the pull. It can feel like you are pulling on a rubber band. For example, a guy wearing a hoodie can be harder to handle than someone in a regular coat.
I love watching some of Jackie Chan's scenes. He truly is a master of using environment. The ability to use a persons clothing against them is brilliant. He has some of the best 'fight' scenes ever.

you shouldn't be using brute strength, just moving them in the direction you want them to go and they really don't stretch that much, particularly cotten, put a cotton shirt in a vice and try and stretch with one hand, it if it stretch a couple of inches it make no difference to if they go over or not, soccer shirts however do have good elastic qualities, however , stretched material is potential energy, its still pulling them in the direction you want the energy hasn't been lost

 

[dvcochran]

you shouldn't be using brute strength, just moving them in the direction you want them to go and they really don't stretch that much, particularly cotten, put a cotton shirt in a vice and try and stretch with one hand, it if it stretch a couple of inches it make no difference to if they go over or not, soccer shirts however do have good elastic qualities, however , stretched material is potential energy, its still pulling them in the direction you want the energy hasn't been lost

Well, I have never put a shirt in a vice to test the stretch but have had several experiences putting hands on when I was LEO where I found this to be true. I would put it in the SA category.

 

[ShortBridge]

I have not seen his videos before, but I liked this one, though it would be easy to poke holes in it. By his own admission, he was riffing and meandering a bit.

These concepts are integral to Wing Chun in my experience. I manage them a little bit differently, but this is an area that I think I am better at doing than teaching, so I get why his explanations may not be perfect.

 

[quasar44]

Judo is crazy popular in France !!!

 

[JP3]

There's nothing particularly "damned lethal" about most throws. There are a few worth avoiding (drop seoi nage, probably uchimata) to minimize the chance of dropping them on their head, but otherwise the risk of death is probably no different than hitting someone hard enough to knock them down.

There are ways to move the judo throw out of the sport sense and back into the jujutsu combat sense which can greatly increase their capacity to cause injury... shoot, simply lofting a guy and just walking out from under him and letting him find his own way to the ground can be nasty. Geenrally though, the well-trained judoka is most likely going to react with their best throw for the instant of the attack, and that throw is most likely going to be the one he/she trained a lot, so it's reflexive... and therefore is the more gentle-hearted version, e.g. a shoulder throw which drops the opponent generally on their back.

Oh, and uchimata isn't supposed to really "loft" anyone, they are... supposed to sort of spin around the lifting leg and sort of drop behind and to the side. The big lofting throw, which one of my coaches jokingly liked to call Ouchylotta comes right up the middle, throws the dude up and over your shoulder... that thing is heinous. If you're a guy, it's highly likely that at the instant the throw is entered and initiates... your mind is no longer on your ukemi....

 

[drop bear]

Works in politics.