Various religions denounce Koran burning. No one showed.

[Bill Mattocks]

Well, almost no one.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Electi...aith-call-to-oppose-Koran-burning.-Who-didn-t

CNN covered interfaith call to oppose Koran burning.

Who didn't?


Cable news outlets showed limited interest Tuesday afternoon in a press conference where church leaders from a variety of faiths called for a united front against Koran burning and other aspects of Islamophobia.


The Islamic Society of North America organized a press conference at the National Press Club in Washington where leaders from the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim faiths argued against what organizers called “an atmosphere of fear and intolerance” toward Islam.
C-SPAN and CNN carried the interfaith press conference live. Fox News Channel had no coverage, but instead had commentator Lou Dobbs holding forth on President Obama and the “sad isolated state this president has put himself in.” Meanwhile, MSNBC offered talking heads discussing Mr. Obama’s latest plans to spur the economy.

This is why people say "If Muslims are against terrorism, why don't they denounce it?" They do, but Fox News isn't interested in covering that (Nor is ABC, CBS, etc, etc). It doesn't make hot-heads angrier, so it's not news. Get it?

 

[Tez3]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11223457

We've said that if this church costs any of our troops their lives, we will come across and they will wish they'd never been born. It's not a threat, it's a promise.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Tez, be my guest.

People who burn books are ignorant, enjoy being such, and want to stay that way. Knowledge is evil.

 

[Archangel M]

Eh..who cares what some hick pastor wants to do with the Koran. Making a big deal out of his idiocy only MAKES a big issue out of it.

 

[MA-Caver]

It's idiocy alright. Self righteous bastards have no clue as to what the Koran teaches. Their own bible teaches practically the same thing. How'd they feel if Muslims started burning Bibles?

 

[Haakon]

It's idiocy alright. Self righteous bastards have no clue as to what the Koran teaches. Their own bible teaches practically the same thing. How'd they feel if Muslims started burning Bibles?

Seems to be plenty of self righteousness in this thread.

Are you trying to say that all muslims treat the Bible with the same respect they want everyone else to treat the Koran with? Why do you even care what one backwards preacher does anyway?

http://justifythis.blogspot.com/2006/12/australia-muslim-students-urinate-spit.html
http://www.speroforum.com/a/17283/Muslims-burn-Bible-in-Pakistan

There were probably some Bibles burned when they burned down the churches http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/02/nigeria-muslim-mob-burns-down-8-churches.html

Even the US government burns Bibles http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/05/19/us-army-burns-bibles-in-afghanistan/

Hey Tez, what are you doing about the muslims killing UK troops in Afganistan, Iraq and so on, are you making them wish they had never been born too? Afterall they are actually KILLING your troops.

 

[Empty Hands]

Eh..who cares what some hick pastor wants to do with the Koran. Making a big deal out of his idiocy only MAKES a big issue out of it.

A big issue has already been made about it, with worldwide protests in places as far apart as Jakarta and the Middle East. The commanding general of the US forces in Afghanistan has addressed it. I think it's a little late for ignoring it. If no one addresses it now, silence will be viewed as complicity and approval.

 

[Archangel M]

"World wide protests" over some no-name pastor burning a bible speaks of something wrong in some parts of the Muslim world IMO. Much like the riots and death threats over the Mohammad cartoon...

I don't recall such problems over "Holy Blood Holy Grail" or Piss Christ.

Why should the US have to answer in any way for this loony pastor?

 

[Empty Hands]

Why should the US have to answer in any way for this loony pastor?

Because it puts American lives at risk. Not according to me either, according to Gen. Petraeus.

 

[CoryKS]

Because it puts American lives at risk. Not according to me either, according to Gen. Petraeus.

But I thought that the vast, vast majority of Muslims were peaceful? If such an infinitesimal minority are violent, why should our soldiers be at risk?

 

[Bruno@MT]

It's idiocy alright. Self righteous bastards have no clue as to what the Koran teaches. Their own bible teaches practically the same thing. How'd they feel if Muslims started burning Bibles?

That is TOTALLY different!

 

[Archangel M]

But would there be any really major widespread protest/violence if they did burn Bibles?

Sometimes it seems like theres a fear based response to any activity related to Islam that you don't see as much in relation to other religions. It remins me of the Star Wars scene:

Han Solo: Let him have it. It's not wise to upset a Wookiee.
C-3PO: But sir, nobody worries about upsetting a droid.
Han Solo: That's 'cause droids don't pull people's arms out of their sockets when they lose. Wookiees are known to do that.
Chewbacca: Grrf.
C-3PO: I see your point, sir. I suggest a new strategy, R2: let the Wookiee win.

Would there be a different menatlity if riots, death threats and actual extremist attacks and religiously ordered assassinations (a la Rushdie or the Muhammad Cartoon incidents) didn't happen whenever a Koran was burned or a cartoon was drawn?

 

[David43515]

But I thought that the vast, vast majority of Muslims were peaceful? If such an infinitesimal minority are violent, why should our soldiers be at risk?

Lets look at it this way. There are usually one or two in your neighborhood whom you don`t get along with. They treat you like you`re a complete a-hole.
The vast majority of the people who live in your neighborhood are either cool or indifferent, but if you start antagonizing them by busting the windows in thier house, or parking on thier lawn they`re gonna get pissed off and do something about it. The next thing you know the sheer number of people treating you like an a-hole has doubled or tripled.

If you don`t get along with your neighbors, it`s no big deal. But pissing off the whole Muslim world (most of whom come from cultures that have entirely different standards of right and wrong than we do) is probably not the best course of action.

Or to put it in a martial arts way, attractive young women have every right to walk around in lonely places scantily clad late at night by themselves. And drunken businessmen have every right to ride the subway alone at night with 20$ bills hanging out of thier pockets. They shouldn`t have to change thier behavior just because of how someone might react......but that still doesn`t make it a good idea. If the girl gets raped or the drunk gets mugged People may not come out and say "Well what did you think was going to happen" but everyone will be thinking it. If Al Queda and the Taliban get a huge surge in recruiting after this or there`s a new series of attacks and riots commited by people who were on the sidelines until now who will we have to blame? We used to have laws about inciting riots and disturbing the peace. I supposed that just because the effects won`t be immediate or happen in the church`s parking lot then the law will be tough to enforce. I for one wish somebody could talk some sense into this pastor.He`s gonna get people killed.

 

[Tez3]

Seems to be plenty of self righteousness in this thread.

Are you trying to say that all muslims treat the Bible with the same respect they want everyone else to treat the Koran with? Why do you even care what one backwards preacher does anyway?

http://justifythis.blogspot.com/2006/12/australia-muslim-students-urinate-spit.html
http://www.speroforum.com/a/17283/Muslims-burn-Bible-in-Pakistan

There were probably some Bibles burned when they burned down the churches http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/02/nigeria-muslim-mob-burns-down-8-churches.html

Even the US government burns Bibles http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/05/19/us-army-burns-bibles-in-afghanistan/

Hey Tez, what are you doing about the muslims killing UK troops in Afganistan, Iraq and so on, are you making them wish they had never been born too? Afterall they are actually KILLING your troops.[/quote]




Now, do you want the short lecture or the full hour one?
YOUR 'soldier in command' actually is the one who said this action will cost Allied troops lives. Note again..YOUR General Petraeus is concerned that his countrymen's actions will put troops lives at risk so guess what that means your guys as well. Of course if you don't care about them either.................

It's not about what they do with our holy books. It's about the actions of some stupid, narrow minded, bigotted people who profess to be Christians and don't appear to have the slightest idea of what they are talking about.


As what our troops in warzones do, well they don't make people sorry they were born, they simply kill the enemy and attempt to make life better for non combantants by building hydro electric schemes, hospitals, schools, wells, provide medical care,sports facilites etc etc. Yes and your troops do the same, all the troops risk their lives, many giving them up doing their duty not so that some stupid little man can have his 15 minutes of fame.

 

[xJOHNx]

Seems to be plenty of self righteousness in this thread.

Are you trying to say that all muslims treat the Bible with the same respect they want everyone else to treat the Koran with? Why do you even care what one backwards preacher does anyway?

http://justifythis.blogspot.com/2006/12/australia-muslim-students-urinate-spit.html
http://www.speroforum.com/a/17283/Muslims-burn-Bible-in-Pakistan

There were probably some Bibles burned when they burned down the churches http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/02/nigeria-muslim-mob-burns-down-8-churches.html

You need to see the bigger picture, instead of the fine details.

That bunch that is in Nigeria doesn't practice pure Islam, again they are an offshoot of the bigger Religion that is Islam (much like both Lutherans and Catholics belong to Christianity).
Nigeria is a poor country, fact.
They have a high illiteracy rate, fact.
They have had civilian wars, tribal feuds and rebels for a long time, fact.

Mix those three up and you have the posse you are refering to in your post. Much like Al Qaeda and the Taliban: the leading few count on the ignorance of their followers to spread havoc to gain more power.
Had it been a region more south, it would probably have been in the name Of Jezus Christ instead of The Prophet (pbwh).

But I thought that the vast, vast majority of Muslims were peaceful? If such an infinitesimal minority are violent, why should our soldiers be at risk?

Because it's that minority that is shooting their guns at your troops?
Most Muslims are peaceful, just like other religions they have a few bad apples that wreck the whole stock. And unfortunatly most of the world still relies on single quote truths to condemn something.
Especially something as detailed as religion with all it's conotations and factions.


p.s. Jezus is the most quoted prophet in the Quran. By burning the Quran christian ministers are actually denouncing Jezus his words.
Ironical, isn't it?

 

[Tez3]

But I thought that the vast, vast majority of Muslims were peaceful? If such an infinitesimal minority are violent, why should our soldiers be at risk?

In Afghanistan there's plenty of people who either aren't interested in fighting the Allies or are sitting on the fence, actions like this push those into taking a stand against the Allies. It give more weight to the stuff the Taliban tell the villagers about the Allies, it incites anger and gives more motivation to the fighters. It undermines the Allies' Hearts and Minds campaign, all the good work will go to waste. That's why it's dangerous. The fact it's also ignorant, stupid and the actions of neanderthals is almost beside the point.

 

[Bruno@MT]

But I thought that the vast, vast majority of Muslims were peaceful? If such an infinitesimal minority are violent, why should our soldiers be at risk?

Because that specific minority are the ones who are currently fighting your troops pretty hard, and they want to kill them bad enough that they think nothing of strapping explosives to their body and setting them off, just for the chance of taking some of the troops with them.

It's like ... most people who own and drive a motor bike are law abiding citizens. And only a truly small minority are hells angels. But if you are in a situation involving lots of those in close proximity, then anything that will just annoy or insult motor drivers in general, will probably get those hells angels pissed off to the point where they go out of their way to be even nastier to you than they already were.

A general minority is not mutually exclusive with a local majority. And if you are near that local majority, then it might be a problem for you if your known friends make them very angry.

Does that make sense?

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

In Afghanistan there's plenty of people who either aren't interested in fighting the Allies or are sitting on the fence, actions like this push those into taking a stand against the Allies. It give more weight to the stuff the Taliban tell the villagers about the Allies, it incites anger and gives more motivation to the fighters. It undermines the Allies' Hearts and Minds campaign, all the good work will go to waste. That's why it's dangerous. The fact it's also ignorant, stupid and the actions of neanderthals is almost beside the point.

I normally don't take truck with these kind of threads anymore, but I have to ask a question here.

Is what you're telling me that the burning of a religous book can incite a normally peaceful person who isn't interested in fighting the Allies to go out and kill a whole bunch of people?

If that's what you're trying to tell us, then Cory's question is pertinent.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

p.s. Jezus is the most quoted prophet in the Quran. By burning the Quran christian ministers are actually denouncing Jezus his words.
Ironical, isn't it?

Not necessarily. That would be to make the assumption that Christians (or these ones in particular) believe that what the Koran quotes that Jesus says is what he actually said.

If not, to them they aren't denouncing Jesus' word, and in fact are burning a heretical book.

 

[Tez3]

I normally don't take truck with these kind of threads anymore, but I have to ask a question here.

Is what you're telling me that the burning of a religous book can incite a normally peaceful person who isn't interested in fighting the Allies to go out and kill a whole bunch of people?

If that's what you're trying to tell us, then Cory's question is pertinent.

Afghan politics are complicated, there are people there who don't wish to fight the Allies but can be forced to by various means. It can be threats to family etc or it can be pressure exerted by religious leaders and tribal leaders. The pressure to be seen as a 'good' Muslim and to protect their families can make someone who isn't interested in fighting be made to fight and kill. It would be 'see what these people are doing to the Koran, how you can stand there and do nothing' etc etc. Its been used in various situations before, in wartime Germany for example, as a 'good' German and one who is afraid of the authorities, quite rightly of course, they would denounce neighbours and people they knew were Jewish, communists, trade unionists etc. It's hard to stand against especially if you fear for your family so you go with the 'proof' that the Allies are your enemies and deserve to die because of the way they treat the Koran. You can even justify it to yourself and end up believing it.
The religious gatherings in Afghanistan will be full of fervour against this burning, its easy to whip up the young and foolish and fervant, it would be hard to disgree and harder still not to be called to 'action'. Brave men may well but it will be the end of them for sure. Afghanistan is a tribal society, an individual doesn't do well if he goes against the tribal thoughts and actions.