USOC Slaps Down USAT- Link to Ruling

[puunui]

I don't know if I would go as far to say we were "best of buddies". But yes, I did help you, because that is what my senior wanted. So I listened. Probably the person who helped you the most in your taekwondo career was President Sang Lee. In fact, there is a long list of people who have first hand, personal knowledge about how you show your appreciation.

I take that back. President Lee wasn't the person who helped you the most in your taekwondo career; I think that was Herb Perez, for getting you on the USAT Board of Directors and, along with David Askinas, made you Chair. But add those two to the long list of people who have first hand, personal knowledge of how appreciative you are when people help you.

 

[puunui]

I have called USAT several times to inquire about there current stituation and was told it was really noneof my business. That is one of the reason I get pissed at them. Other times they just say we are working on the problems but then you never hear anything again, the only time I was called back was by membership because something went wrong with there system and I could not register for an event. Other wise they have never ever returned any of my phone calls, it has been me calling them over and over again.

I do agree we need to be working together to make things change but not enough people are kept up to date on what is going on. I know it would be nice to actually know how and why things are being done and being a member and school owner they should tell me something but they don't.

This week or next at the latest, we should have a better picture of what will happen. We are currently in the "remedy" phase of the Section 10 complaints, and the USOC Hearing Panel should be telling us what the remedy is by then. In the meantime, I would say any phone calls to USAT would be a waste of time. They obviously won't tell you what is going on with respect to the hearing panel stuff. If they wanted you to know that, they would have posted the decision. The fact that they didn't, gives more than enough information. Instead of trying to pile on and dump on the current administration, I would focus my attention on the future and figure out what sort of things you would like to see happen at USAT under a new administration and most importantly, what your level of participation will be.

 

[d1jinx]

When the remediation plan is unveiled and the plans for the elections set, then it is imperative that all who want the organization to move forward ensure that there are not only quality candidates for the positions and that they are researched carefully, but that whomever is deemed a voting category actually vote. Kevin Padilla won by 1 vote. Out of 1000 coaches, approximately 100 or 10% of the coaches voted and Kevin Padilla got it by 1 vote. This shows how important every vote is, whether a USAT election or a US Presidential election. It's work together or fail.

not to beat a dead horse, but I did the level 1 course in 2004 or 5 (the first time, whenever it was started) when Herb taught it and "Q" coaches didnt count anymore and I have my voting "affiliation" set as coach, and never once did I recieve any information on voting, nor have i ever recieved ANYTHING about voting for anything. Since the USAT began it was very apparent that certain people were included while the rest were excluded.

but then again, i am irrelevent.

I STILL WANT MY $500 SHIRT I NEVER GOT HERB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[puunui]

not to beat a dead horse, but I did the level 1 course in 2004 or 5 (the first time, whenever it was started) when Herb taught it and "Q" coaches didnt count anymore and I have my voting "affiliation" set as coach, and never once did I recieve any information on voting, nor have i ever recieved ANYTHING about voting for anything. Since the USAT began it was very apparent that certain people were included while the rest were excluded.

Try and read the bylaws. There are very specific requirements that must be met before one can have a vote. I think you need to take that coach course every year in order to get a vote. For referees, you have to have officiated at a USAT event to get a vote. I myself do not have a vote, no matter what I register for, because I am a life member, and at some point the bylaws were changed to take away voting rights for life members. I believe these things were done to shrink the voting pool for control purposes (less voters means easier chance to win elections) and also to further exclude korean born members, who make up the bulk of the USTU/USAT life membership.

 

[RSweet]

Try and read the bylaws. There are very specific requirements that must be met before one can have a vote. I think you need to take that coach course every year in order to get a vote. For referees, you have to have officiated at a USAT event to get a vote. I myself do not have a vote, no matter what I register for, because I am a life member, and at some point the bylaws were changed to take away voting rights for life members. I believe these things were done to shrink the voting pool for control purposes (less voters means easier chance to win elections) and also to further exclude korean born members, who make up the bulk of the USTU/USAT life membership.

Speaking of beating dead horses.This has been discussed and debunked ad nauseum. Life members as a category do not have a vote. However, Life members who designate Coach or referee for example, do have a vote as a coach or a referee. It is possible to be a member of more than one membership category.

Many Life members have votes and have used them in the categories that have someone to vote for (example: Coaches vote for Coaches, Referees for Referees, Athletes for Athletes) Just ask John Holloway who is and has been a life member and has voted in the elections.

Section 5.2. Voting Members.
Individuals belonging to the following membership categories shall be entitled to vote in an
election for directors of the Board: Athlete members, Coach members and Referee members.
Organizations belonging to the following membership categories shall be entitled to vote in an
election for directors of the Board: Club members, State Organization members and Affiliated
Organization members. No other voting privileges are conferred upon these members.
An individual may belong to more than one (1) of the above mentioned membership categories.
However, an individual is only eligible to vote in one (1) membership category. Any individual
who is a member of more than one (1) membership category shall designate the membership
category in which he or she shall vote. An individual shall be a citizen of the United States and
at least eighteen (18) years of age in order to be eligible to vote in an election. Notwithstanding
these restrictions on voting, membership in USAT is open to individuals who are less than
eighteen (18) years of age and to individuals who are not citizens of the United States. An
individual shall be a member of USAT sixty (60) days prior to the date of the election (record
date) in order to be eligible to vote in an election.
Individuals and organizations belonging to the following membership categories have no voting
privileges: Supporting members, Life members and Contributing Organization members.

 

[RSweet]

not to beat a dead horse, but I did the level 1 course in 2004 or 5 (the first time, whenever it was started) when Herb taught it and "Q" coaches didnt count anymore and I have my voting "affiliation" set as coach, and never once did I recieve any information on voting, nor have i ever recieved ANYTHING about voting for anything. Since the USAT began it was very apparent that certain people were included while the rest were excluded.

but then again, i am irrelevent.

I STILL WANT MY $500 SHIRT I NEVER GOT HERB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[email protected] call (650) 286-9116 for more information http://www.goldmedalcenter.com/foster-city As a candidate for USAT Director, he may bend over backwards for someone who can vote

 

[RSweet]

I take that back. President Lee wasn't the person who helped you the most in your taekwondo career; I think that was Herb Perez, for getting you on the USAT Board of Directors and, along with David Askinas, made you Chair. But add those two to the long list of people who have first hand, personal knowledge of how appreciative you are when people help you.

No one can replace you in my affections.

You must have forgotten, Herb threatened to sue me if I ran for chair. David didn't make me chair either, the choice was Mark Biviano in his first day as a BOD member or me.

And I know there is an extremely long list of people that somehow were dropped from your mailing list after disagreeing with you or arguing with you or posting on another board. I am sure that was totally accidental and the fault of the software.

 

[puunui]

And I know there is an extremely long list of people that somehow were dropped from your mailing list after disagreeing with you or arguing with you or posting on another board. I am sure that was totally accidental and the fault of the software.

That mailing list was very useful in predicting people who were prone to negative behavior. The people who were red flagged through that mailing list invariably became people that my group did not wish to associate with. I think it was Jay, maybe John, who conceded that the list was incredibly accurate in that regard. I don't mind painting a target on my back, because it served a very important purpose. And those who are able to maintain their discipline, get rewarded with high quality, high level accurate information. And it is not the disagreeing or the arguing, but the manner in which is done. People disagree or argue with me all the time; that isn't the deciding factor, something more important is. As for posting on another specific board, where are all those posters now, other than lurking, like you do, using an alternative email address?

 

[RSweet]

That mailing list was very useful in predicting people who were prone to negative behavior. The people who were red flagged through that mailing list invariably became people that my group did not wish to associate with. I think it was Jay, maybe John, who conceded that the list was incredibly accurate in that regard. I don't mind painting a target on my back, because it served a very important purpose. And those who are able to maintain their discipline, get rewarded with high quality, high level accurate information. And it is not the disagreeing or the arguing, but the manner in which is done. People disagree or argue with me all the time; that isn't the deciding factor, something more important is. As for posting on another specific board, where are all those posters now, other than lurking, like you do, using an alternative email address?

I really don't think John or Jay would consider people like Randy Waitman and Kim Sol as undesirable. I don't lurk and no alternate email addresses, sorry you have me confused with someone else, maybe that person in the mirror. I also make all my posts available to anyone who wants to read them.

 

[puunui]

Just ask John Holloway who is and has been a life member and has voted in the elections.

I did mention it to him. This specific line in the bylaws seems pretty clear: Individuals and organizations belonging to the following membership categories have no voting privileges: Supporting members, Life members and Contributing Organization members.

I am a life member who designated myself as one of the categories, and I haven't gotten a ballot in years.

 

[puunui]

I really don't think John or Jay would consider people like Randy Waitman and Kim Sol as undesirable. I don't lurk and no alternate email addresses, sorry you have me confused with someone else, maybe that person in the mirror. I also make all my posts available to anyone who wants to read them.

believe what you wish and keep doing what you are doing. it's a free country.

 

[Gorilla]

Do we have any hope of people coming together it would seem to me that people have chosen sides and battle lines have been drawn. Nothing will be accomplished in this type of situation. Wow!!!! How do we come together for the good of the sport.

 

[puunui]

Do we have any hope of people coming together it would seem to me that people have chosen sides and battle lines have been drawn. Nothing will be accomplished in this type of situation. Wow!!!! How do we come together for the good of the sport.

That is what she wants you to believe.

 

[d1jinx]

[email protected] call (650) 286-9116 for more information http://www.goldmedalcenter.com/foster-city As a candidate for USAT Director, he may bend over backwards for someone who can vote

WOT. (waste of time)

I have called, even have emails saying it was "in the mail". then he told me he gave me more than 1 oppurtunity to pick it up at regionals and nationals so it was too late now.(they didnt have my size one time, the other time they ran out, one time they didnt have them yet)

it's ok. The fun is knowing that I got rippied off and told to take it. It was my privilage to become and maintain level 1 status... and shouldnt expect anything in return. regardless of what was promised. but hey, they gave us back $75....

I think this was like every other effort that USAT attempted to implement... pointless. well, maybe not pointless, it did generate revenue for 1 side at the expense for the other. And it only took them how long to follow up with the level2, level 3.....

 

[d1jinx]

Try and read the bylaws. There are very specific requirements that must be met before one can have a vote. I think you need to take that coach course every year in order to get a vote. For referees, you have to have officiated at a USAT event to get a vote. I myself do not have a vote, no matter what I register for, because I am a life member, and at some point the bylaws were changed to take away voting rights for life members. I believe these things were done to shrink the voting pool for control purposes (less voters means easier chance to win elections) and also to further exclude korean born members, who make up the bulk of the USTU/USAT life membership.

i did maintain my active coaching status and it didnt change until recently ( about a year or 2 ago) changed it to referee. but that i can understand, cause i didnt ref an event 1 year. but since 2005 was an active LVL1 coach and never once got any info about voting.

as for the lifetime membership. it never appealed to me. I couldnt and still dont see the benefit to it. I mean i understand how it grandfathered longtime USTU members into it, but for anyone else it seemed pointless.

 

[Gorilla]

RSweet has very little influence on what I think or believe. I have spoken with a plethora of people over a pretty wide cross section of the TKD community(athletes,former officials of the USAT/USTU,current officials of TKD orgs, Elite athletes, coaches at all levels). Then I observe puunui and Rsweet bicker and it is not hard to come to the conclusion that at this time we do not have a leader or force in the TKD community that is willing to step forward and lead us out of this mess.

 

[RSweet]

Do we have any hope of people coming together it would seem to me that people have chosen sides and battle lines have been drawn. Nothing will be accomplished in this type of situation. Wow!!!! How do we come together for the good of the sport.

The difficulty at this moment is knowing how and where to come together. Until the Hearing Panel renders their remediation plan, no one can truly know how to form a battle plan. Step one was taken, TRUE and Bernard Robinson went through and exhausted internal remedies. They got a ruling that was against the USAT but until the USOC announces how far they are willing to go to assist TKD and how the Hearing Panel announces how the elections and oversight are going to happen, other than keeping abreast of the news, there is not much anyone can do. You can run out and recruit Independents, but what if the Hearing Panel decides to eliminate independents? Word out there is the USOC is fed up with USAT both pre and post the David Askinas era. They have neither the time, energy or money to put into the USAT. Word also is that USAT is at least $750K in the hole and is using this year's money to pay last year's bills. This leads me to the obvious conclusion that it will be necessary to utilize more volunteers to limp along. The USOC Auditor has already stated that he does not believe the budget passed by the BOD will work. Until the true extent of commitments made by USAT is exposed, no one really knows what they have to work with. Will USAT have to file for a bankruptcy reorganization? Will the USOC just say to hell with it all if the medal count from the Olympics is less than stellar? How many pending lawsuits are there? The list of questions goes on and on and I am not sure that any has those answers. Just starting out right this minute saying "lead me, trust me" is ludicrous. I doubt Eric Parthen even has all the answers at this moment. The only true answer I can give you is that there are a lot of really great people out there with experience and good ideas that are willing to step into the gaps and give it all a try. However, to start working on a long term answer without a real, honest knowledge of where USAT stands this moment, what's owed, what's available - you would only be bailing the titanic with a soup spoon. This will all hinge first on the USOC and their decisions, then transparency about the true condition of the organization (from people who still deny there is a problem) and then hardworking, experienced people to first think about the problems and then move forward with well considered answers and then they have to find the tools to make those answers happen. This is not going to be a 6 month process. The answers will not magically appear when the Hearing Panel renders their remediation plan. That will only be the beginning. And while good people are doing all that, you will have those who have sat back and waited for this day in order to sweep in and take over, count on that one.

 

[puunui]

RSweet has very little influence on what I think or believe.

That is quite interesting.

I have spoken with a plethora of people over a pretty wide cross section of the TKD community(athletes,former officials of the USAT/USTU,current officials of TKD orgs, Elite athletes, coaches at all levels). Then I observe puunui and Rsweet bicker and it is not hard to come to the conclusion that at this time we do not have a leader or force in the TKD community that is willing to step forward and lead us out of this mess.

I disagree that we are "bickering". I will say that there are leaders out there who can take us out of this situations, two specifically that fill different roles but work well together. But if you are looking for a situation where there is 100% agreement or 100% support or 100% anything, then I would say that is unrealistic and impractical and not how things work in the real world.

 

[puunui]

And while good people are doing all that, you will have those who have sat back and waited for this day in order to sweep in and take over, count on that one.

I don't think those groups will be a concern. Like I said previously, that would only apply in a decertification scenario, which we are not in. And even if everything goes completely wrong and USAT does get decertified, the WTF has already indicated that they would appoint ATU to fill the gap, not AAU or MAC. USOC knows and understands this, and also knows and understands the pressures coming from MAC and to a lesser extent AAU. So they are trying to salvage USAT, if it is salvagable. Perhaps bankruptcy reorganization is a possibility and option, if things are so bad and the debt is insurmountable. But whatever the situation, it is always best to start with a plan, unlike what happened 2004. Back then, there was no plan, other than to eliminate and get rid of all Korean born members from the organization. Ironically, this time, the plan seems to be how to get rid of those who got rid of the Korean born members the last time around.

 

[Gorilla]

In my private life I run a large organization and have been a member of multiple boards. I agree that you will never have 100 percent agreement on anything. I think that if we have a board and a leader who can bring all the orgs together you could generate 50,000 members for the NGB. AAU and USAT are already at 30k. I am happy to hear that you have two that you feel are ready. We have participated in multiple ATU events and I have met some the leaders of that Org in California. Our original GM supports this group.

This will be an interesting weekend. I don't think that the AAU wants to be the NGB they just want a meaningful seat at the table but are skeptical about how things happened the last time they had seat on the board. I think a strong leader with integrity could get people to put those things behind them but it will be difficult task.

Puunui does anyone really want to bring all the groups together. ATU,MAC,AAU because this is what I would like to see. A NGB that is able to work with all TKD Orgs. If we can do that the sky is the limit.