USAT's "Stay to Play" Policy -- you have got to be kidding

[granfire]

It's nice to see HQ make the right call, but the bad aftertaste is gonna linger.

It doesn't take many of this kind of shenanigan to build a very negative attitude toward "upstairs". New ideas from now on are likely to be met with a sarcastic "Hey...guess what headquarters has thought of this time!"

Whether it's Mr. A, the BOD, or whomever, we expect leaders to carefully evaluate the results of any action BEFORE taking it.
Why should we believe they thought things through next time?

Carl

I suppose just because one can punch through a 4x4 or do a triple quadruple tornado kick through a tank does not mean one is capable or equipped to run a business - which a large organization like this is.

the bolded has been the battle cry in my area (organization) for several years now. (and yet, they look good against this mess)

But - the cynic that I am - to me it reads that this year you guys are off the hook. Next year, after the election all bets are off, or rather the deal might be back on.

 

[StudentCarl]

...cynic that I am...

That's the real poison: this kind of management encourages cynicism.

It's really the opposite of what we spend our time teaching and modeling to students each day or night (Courtesy, Integrity...).

 

[granfire]

That's the real poison: this kind of management encourages cynicism.

It's really the opposite of what we spend our time teaching and modeling to students each day or night (Courtesy, Integrity...).

Damn, having dejavu moments here!!!

 

[RSweet]

I suppose just because one can punch through a 4x4 or do a triple quadruple tornado kick through a tank does not mean one is capable or equipped to run a business - which a large organization like this is.

the bolded has been the battle cry in my area (organization) for several years now. (and yet, they look good against this mess)

But - the cynic that I am - to me it reads that this year you guys are off the hook. Next year, after the election all bets are off, or rather the deal might be back on.

Hate to break it to you but the yoyo who made this decision can neither do a tornado kick or punch through a 4X4. NonTKD guy. He was supposed to be a business guy.

He also has another 3 years on his contract - they may not get re-elected but unless they fire him he will be there to guide the new electees

 

[granfire]

Hate to break it to you but the yoyo who made this decision can neither do a tornado kick or punch through a 4X4. NonTKD guy. He was supposed to be a business guy.

He also has another 3 years on his contract - they may not get re-elected but unless they fire him he will be there to guide the new electees

I hear Brownie has an open schedule these days.

Now I am officially scared.

 

[StudentCarl]

Maybe we need to get him into a class and get him going on the basics of TKD. A white dobuk, a white belt, a floor full of real people...

The best leaders know what goes on at the bottom of the ladder.

Recent Time magazine mentions Gen. McChrystal receiving a complaint from a line soldier about the soldier being given unreasonable limits on rules of engagement. Gen. McChrystal went to the soldier's unit and went on patrol with him, carrying a rifle. Credibility is earned.

I also know of an infantry general who preferred riding a bicycle around post to any other transportation. People don't notice bikers much, and he was able to see a grunt's reality way more than the dog-and-pony show put on for generals.

If all you fly is a desk, how can you know what's real?

 

[granfire]

Maybe we need to get him into a class and get him going on the basics of TKD. A white dobuk, a white belt, a floor full of real people...

The best leaders know what goes on at the bottom of the ladder.

Recent Time magazine mentions Gen. McChrystal receiving a complaint from a line soldier about the soldier being given unreasonable limits on rules of engagement. Gen. McChrystal went to the soldier's unit and went on patrol with him, carrying a rifle. Credibility is earned.

I also know of an infantry general who preferred riding a bicycle around post to any other transportation. People don't notice bikers much, and he was able to see a grunt's reality way more than the dog-and-pony show put on for generals.

If all you fly is a desk, how can you know what's real?

Make his assignment 'Undercover Boss', he might need the cover....

 

[RSweet]

One of the comments about why Stay to Play is so wonderful deserves closer examination. Don't just dismiss it as the usual catch phrase - do it for the athletes - read it and see if you see what I do.

"Revenue generated from this service directly impacts USAT athlete development programs such as team training camps including Junior, U-24, and Senior National Teams, Junior Prep Program and world-class international competitions."

Interesting word choices. Keeping in mind the audience - a lot of moms and dads and coaches who will not see their child or competitor on one of the teams. Now most support the concept of helping the athletes, but most want the dollar value to hit a little closer to home.

Allow me to give my personal opinion translation of this statement. We want you to do this to support the elite athletes, even though most of the programs listed ARE ALREADY FUNDED BY THE USOC! USOC pays most, if not all international trips and some camps.

What he is also saying is he is asking the grassroots parents to pay for the Elite Athletes (bet some of it goes to salaries and dinners and expenses not listed but it sure sounds better to say it is for the athletes) and it never occurred to him to list just ONE THING THAT WILL BENEFIT THE GRASSROOTS PARENTS/ATHLETES who pay the bills for this event.
And I am sure it has not escaped the Poomsae Team that they didn't rate a mention when their numbers make up a nice chunk of the change. So their entry money, hotel rebates etc.. will go to support the Sparring Competitors. Now maybe he didn't mean that. Maybe he does plan on a crumb or two for poomsae. However, when he wrote this carefully crafted spin on this money grab - IT NEVER OCCURRED TO HIM.

Is this a Freudian Slip - telling the grassroots and poomsae people that while they pay for all this, they get no piece of the total pie? Remember, athlete stipends (all 4 of them), international team trips including the Juniors, U24 team and a lot of camps are paid for out of High Performance money directly from the USOC, not the USAT.

Think about it. What is he really saying here?

 

[terryl965]

He is saying the same thing that he always says, we do not care about anybody except the choosen few.... Why is this so hard for anybody to see? What makes the choosen few so special? At anyrate nobody really cares and they will follow suite and do what the Monkey grinder says?

 

[RSweet]

He is saying the same thing that he always says, we do not care about anybody except the chosen few.... Why is this so hard for anybody to see? What makes the chosen few so special? At any rate nobody really cares and they will follow suit and do what the Monkey grinder says?

Too true. It is disheartening at times.

 

[bluekey88]

This whole thing saddens me. I AM grassroots. I'm a 39 y.o. guy. despite a lifetime of MA training, I came to TKD later in life. I'll never be great...ehll I bet I barely rate as good by most standards. I caoch...FOR FREE...at a small school that does not focus on competition. In fact, the owner got so fed up with the USTU/USAT rap years ago he almost scrapped his competition team. he agreed to give the running of it over to the current head coach and that guy recruited me.

Since then I've done my level best to educate myself. I've paid my fees, I've attended my conferences. Why? because my kids LOVE to compete. They're not very good...certainly not Elite. They're just good enough to eke out spots at nationals...but we know this is nothing more than a passion...a hobby. These kids (and the other kids on our team) Work so much harder than anyone else in our dojang. Their integrity, grit and heart are one of the things that keeps me doing this. I love these kids, and they love TKD. The coaches at our school don';t talk about the drama and politics with them...best the kids should enjoy their past time.

What I've been hearing the past few years from USAT at things like the coach's edge seminars...is that you small coaches are important. Your up and coming players are important. What the actions say though is that we are not important...just our money. I wonder no...do I even have a place in the organization? I get it. I'll never be an Olympic champion. My kids will never be an Olympic champ. Hell, the head coach and myself have discussed that if a child were ever to enter our program and show that level of skill...we'd move them on to someone who could help them best cultivate that. We know our limitations.

It seems like the organization has chosen one of two approaches. The focus on the elite. This is fine. If you identify the best and put all your resources to wards them, you'll build champions. However, this will necessitate a much smaller organization as your membership is going to be limited to the few.

the other alternative is to have a large, diverse membership and from that the cream will rise to the top. That has the benefit of more resources, but also more time has to be spent on those who will not rise to the top (otherwise where does the cream come from eh?).

I think right now they want to be the former scenario, but act like the latter scenario...wich cannot work.

This year, our school damn near went with AAU. The ONLY thing that held us back was AAU's poomse rules. We like the new poomse format. We've been working for a few years to bring our competitors and school in line with the KKW/WTF poomse standards. The head coach fees that in that respect AAU would be a step back wards for us. Especially since we are much more el;likely to be competitive in poomse than we are in sparring.

Furthermore, as a parent, I'm stuck. I promised my kids I'd make sure they had a chance to compete. It's too late to qualify for AAU this year. they don't understand about the drama and politics (remember we don't expose them to that).

What's an average TKD parent/coach/competitor to do? We could just stay at our dojang...but there is something to be said about going out there and testing your mettle against other schools and better players. good life lessons are learned there. Hell, I'm willing to spend my hard earned money to do so...but I need to have a stake in things...that's beginning to look like its no longer the case.

/rant

Peace,
Erik

 

[terryl965]

I wish you would consider the A.A.U. because they are a great org. with the athletes comes first and foremost. I understand the poomsae thing but you see if they are good they will win nomatter what org they are doing poomsae in.

 

[bluekey88]

Unfortunately, it's not entirely up to me. I could go solo and it would just be me and my kids....part of the fun is going out as a team and working to tgether and supporting each other.

Perhaps next year. We shall see.

I, personally, would like to give AAU a shot. Most importantly, i want to enjoy my chosen hobby with my family and my friends and not worry about all this B.S. Life's too short.

Peace,
Erik

 

[terryl965]

Unfortunately, it's not entirely up to me. I could go solo and it would just be me and my kids....part of the fun is going out as a team and working to tgether and supporting each other.

Perhaps next year. We shall see.

I, personally, would like to give AAU a shot. Most importantly, i want to enjoy my chosen hobby with my family and my friends and not worry about all this B.S. Life's too short.

Peace,
Erik

Erik I would be willing to talk to your instructor about the benefits that A.A.U. has to offer and remember 80% of the USAT team came from the A.A.U. program so they must be doing something right, at anyrate let me know.

 

[RSweet]

Erik I would be willing to talk to your instructor about the benefits that A.A.U. has to offer and remember 80% of the USAT team came from the A.A.U. program so they must be doing something right, at anyrate let me know.

Let's be fair here. I do not believe 80& of the USAT team came from AAU any more than the NCTA, USAT says AAU's team came from theirs. Contrary to what Friello thinks, USAT likes it when a USAT competitor gets on the AAU team - it is a trip experience USAT doesn't have to pay for.

What we have are a group of athletes who will compete anywhere for anyone. The only way to improve is to compete, no matter where, but preferrably when the competition is at your level.

I would agree a lot of people have dual membership and compete in both. I think we need to get out of this mindset that someone BELONGS to one group or the other, rather than has membership in one, the other or both. No one owns anyone - with the exception that as long as he is under contract to USAT, Jean can't coach for AAU.

 

[granfire]

One of the comments about why Stay to Play is so wonderful deserves closer examination. Don't just dismiss it as the usual catch phrase - do it for the athletes - read it and see if you see what I do.

"Revenue generated from this service directly impacts USAT athlete development programs such as team training camps including Junior, U-24, and Senior National Teams, Junior Prep Program and world-class international competitions."

Interesting word choices. Keeping in mind the audience - a lot of moms and dads and coaches who will not see their child or competitor on one of the teams. Now most support the concept of helping the athletes, but most want the dollar value to hit a little closer to home.

Allow me to give my personal opinion translation of this statement. We want you to do this to support the elite athletes, even though most of the programs listed ARE ALREADY FUNDED BY THE USOC! USOC pays most, if not all international trips and some camps.

What he is also saying is he is asking the grassroots parents to pay for the Elite Athletes (bet some of it goes to salaries and dinners and expenses not listed but it sure sounds better to say it is for the athletes) and it never occurred to him to list just ONE THING THAT WILL BENEFIT THE GRASSROOTS PARENTS/ATHLETES who pay the bills for this event.
And I am sure it has not escaped the Poomsae Team that they didn't rate a mention when their numbers make up a nice chunk of the change. So their entry money, hotel rebates etc.. will go to support the Sparring Competitors. Now maybe he didn't mean that. Maybe he does plan on a crumb or two for poomsae. However, when he wrote this carefully crafted spin on this money grab - IT NEVER OCCURRED TO HIM.

Is this a Freudian Slip - telling the grassroots and poomsae people that while they pay for all this, they get no piece of the total pie? Remember, athlete stipends (all 4 of them), international team trips including the Juniors, U24 team and a lot of camps are paid for out of High Performance money directly from the USOC, not the USAT.

Think about it. What is he really saying here?

I shall call you Gorbi:
Glasnost and Perestroika...

 

[terryl965]

Let's be fair here. I do not believe 80& of the USAT team came from AAU any more than the NCTA, USAT says AAU's team came from theirs. Contrary to what Friello thinks, USAT likes it when a USAT competitor gets on the AAU team - it is a trip experience USAT doesn't have to pay for.

Well Rhonda you are right maybe not 80% but I know for a fact thier are alot more that was A.A.U. before they where USAT, not saying they did not belong to both. Hell my sons belong to both with the same as alot of my fighters but they was given there shot though the A.A.U. and then they was put on the radar by Jean and Peak. As far as Jean not being able to coach sure but he is around alot with the AAU wonder why oh yea to scout and look at up and coming fighters. Look I do not like alot of things about the USAT and we all know who that is but one thing is for sure right now they are the game when it come to Olympic dreams. The A.A.U. does a better job with the grassroot program with them putting together the Cadet team it allows 10-13 years old the oppotunity to grow into the sport and be a part of something to be proud of.

One last thing here we all know TKD has become big business and the art and intregrity is all but gone from the top down within organizations, we as instructor must hold every org. responsible for thier action by voicing and educationing the masses and this can only be done by people like you and others. Sometimes people forget it is the little people that make up the majority so the few can have a golden path, please lets strive to make the path better for all competitors not just a few. I know one Instructor that pays out of his own pocket so he can be apart of the poomsae Team, I know the rest do as well but one individual has spent hours and hours defending the USTU and know the USAT and he is a good man. I will not sy his name but he is a member here on Martial talk and one of the most respected person I know. So for him and the rest of the USA poomsae team they need help with funding and should be cut into the pie every once in a while but they never are.

 

[RSweet]

Let's be fair here. I do not believe 80& of the USAT team came from AAU any more than the NCTA, USAT says AAU's team came from theirs. Contrary to what Friello thinks, USAT likes it when a USAT competitor gets on the AAU team - it is a trip experience USAT doesn't have to pay for.

Well Rhonda you are right maybe not 80% but I know for a fact thier are alot more that was A.A.U. before they where USAT, not saying they did not belong to both. Hell my sons belong to both with the same as alot of my fighters but they was given there shot though the A.A.U. and then they was put on the radar by Jean and Peak. As far as Jean not being able to coach sure but he is around alot with the AAU wonder why oh yea to scout and look at up and coming fighters. Look I do not like alot of things about the USAT and we all know who that is but one thing is for sure right now they are the game when it come to Olympic dreams. The A.A.U. does a better job with the grassroot program with them putting together the Cadet team it allows 10-13 years old the oppotunity to grow into the sport and be a part of something to be proud of.

One last thing here we all know TKD has become big business and the art and intregrity is all but gone from the top down within organizations, we as instructor must hold every org. responsible for thier action by voicing and educationing the masses and this can only be done by people like you and others. Sometimes people forget it is the little people that make up the majority so the few can have a golden path, please lets strive to make the path better for all competitors not just a few. I know one Instructor that pays out of his own pocket so he can be apart of the poomsae Team, I know the rest do as well but one individual has spent hours and hours defending the USTU and know the USAT and he is a good man. I will not sy his name but he is a member here on Martial talk and one of the most respected person I know. So for him and the rest of the USA poomsae team they need help with funding and should be cut into the pie every once in a while but they never are.

My point is we have to start somewhere and with ourselves is a good place. We are martial artists. We are not owned by AAU, USAT, USNTF, ITA etc.. We may pay them dues, work for them, dedicate a lot to them, but each has its own individual place in our own personal worlds. AAU has better grassroots, USAT has better poomsae and USTC does hanmadang. Doesn't mean you can't belong to all three. I just get really upset when Friello or Askinas talks about someone as if they were an object - "they stole so and so". You can't steal a human being.

 

[RSweet]

http://www.fencing.net/news/us-fencing/objections-to-stay-and-play.html

Got this link off a comment on the USAT site. TOO bad the BOD did not read this first.

 

[d1jinx]

http://www.fencing.net/news/us-fencing/objections-to-stay-and-play.html

Got this link off a comment on the USAT site. TOO bad the BOD did not read this first.

So THS is related to several USOC sports? And its not just some Org USAT picked out of a hat? If this is being attempted across other sports, could it be driven by the USOC and we are not seeing the full picture? or is this a copycat scheme that could make money so one decides to implement it too? I'm not for it, but if it seems to be similiar across other USOC sports, is there more behind it than we see?