USAT commited to LaJust

[dancingalone]

Will have to ask some of the high school football players if this is still the case.

This was also the case when I played football in junior high and high school. Not so much the case these days.

The local high schools now charge a participation fee of around $300 per season which helps defray some of the schools' costs. The rest is covered by the school budget (ultimately that comes from property taxes). Not a huge sum for most of us here, but it's enough to keep some kids from playing. They do have some fundraisers to help out the less fortunate kids.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Where do you shop for your gear? I know the higher end bogus will can go up into the $1000's of dollars, however you can get some mid level from $300-$500 at ebogu.com.

Mine was 650.00 by the time all was said and done. I am aware of the 399.99 set. I generally try to avoid the least expensive when it comes to protective gear, however.

I shop at e-mudo.com mostly, though I have gotten a number of things through e-bogu as well.

My point however, is that other sports do require similar investments. With kendo, you don't have official corporate sponsors or gear to rent at the events. You either have it or you do not.

Fencing, like TKD is a martial sport with electric scoring and you are looking at similar money there too.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

This was also the case when I played football in junior high and high school. Not so much the case these days.

The local high schools now charge a participation fee of around $300 per season which helps defray some of the schools' costs. The rest is covered by the school budget (ultimately that comes from property taxes). Not a huge sum for most of us here, but it's enough to keep some kids from playing. They do have some fundraisers to help out the less fortunate kids.

So three hundred bucks for the season. Play three seasons and you're almost up to a grand for junior high football. Stick with it through high school and that's another 1200. Plus the cost of cleats, which I doubt are included, and you've got probably another 60 to 80 dollars. I'd gather that parents are responsible for the misceleneous gear (mouthpieces, cups, and elbow & shin pads).

The point is, and you confirm, that there is a substantial cost as compared to, say, soccor, which is essentially cleats, shin and elbow guards, knee pads, a cup and a mouth piece.

Look, 90% of the cute little kiddies who sign up for taekwondo will never compete or fight outside of the confines of their dojang.

And at what point do you need electric gear? State level? National level? and how many of those who do compete outside of their own dojang compete at this level? I am asking because I have no idea, but I suspect that there is quite a bit of participation that can be done before gear like this is a necessity.

So the idea that the costs are keeping people from participating in the activity is flatly incorrect.

Want to keep the costs down? Address the 500.00 plus dollars worth of testing fees that most TKD schools hammer you with between white belt and black belt. Not to mention extra cost clubs and programs. Get sport taekwondo organized like an actual sport. Of course there is little incentive to do that, as that would put 90% of the dojangs in the US out of business.

If any of those who are complaining are school owners who charge a hundred or more over the cost of the KKW fee for the BB test and charge for each colored belt test, you need to take a long look in the mirror before pointing the finger elsewhere.

Look, I'm not running to the defense of LaJust here. I've never used the product and I no longer compete. But aside from the performance issues, the rest comes off as complaining about USAT and LaJust just for the sake of complaining.

Daniel

 

[terryl965]

Daniel you are right one set is not expensive the problem lies here: Nobody is using the same equipment so you need to buy One Red and One Blue which is a Grand and there is on an average of five different sets you need, so it is really around $5000.00 and they do not last. They are built so you have to keep upgrading every year. Different events makes it impossible to have them all. Over the last year I have brought three differentr sets for the school that runs up around $11,000 per set. This include all the software and scoring guns that are wireless now and two sizes of every Hogu now times that by three sets and you have spent $33,000, now I am not complaining just pointing out when I said $495.00 that was for one hogu and not the complete set. Sock are only good for one tournament if they last for a whole tournament so that is an additional cost over and over again.

Just for the record no competitor is wearing $19.95 uniform, most spend in the hundreds for one.

You are right we have chosen this sport for our childern but at the same time the WTF does not have to have so many approved ones out there for all these different orgs. to use and players need to buy.

 

[dancingalone]

So three hundred bucks for the season. Play three seasons and you're almost up to a grand for junior high football. Stick with it through high school and that's another 1200. Plus the cost of cleats, which I doubt are included, and you've got probably another 60 to 80 dollars. I'd gather that parents are responsible for the misceleneous gear (mouthpieces, cups, and elbow & shin pads).

The point is, and you confirm, that there is a substantial cost as compared to, say, soccor, which is essentially cleats, shin and elbow guards, knee pads, a cup and a mouth piece.

Absolutely. And this is in football-crazed Texas. I understand in some states, the schools don't subsidize even the popular sports at all due to financial constraints.

TKD might be an expensive sport, but it certainly isn't more expensive than playing competitive junior tennis or golf. I know all too well from the tennis side how much coaching and travel costs. Like with anything, if you want to play at the top levels of the sports, there is a whole lot of expense tallied up to get there. In tennis at least if you're identified as a future pro prospect, you can get sponsorships that defray the pain considerably.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Daniel you are right one set is not expensive the problem lies here: Nobody is using the same equipment so you need to buy One Red and One Blue which is a Grand and there is on an average of five different sets you need, so it is really around $5000.00 and they do not last. They are built so you have to keep upgrading every year. Different events makes it impossible to have them all. Over the last year I have brought three differentr sets for the school that runs up around $11,000 per set. This include all the software and scoring guns that are wireless now and two sizes of every Hogu now times that by three sets and you have spent $33,000, now I am not complaining just pointing out when I said $495.00 that was for one hogu and not the complete set. Sock are only good for one tournament if they last for a whole tournament so that is an additional cost over and over again.

That is insane. I take it back; your complaint is completely justified!!! Sheesh! Talk about hidden costs!

Just for the record no competitor is wearing $19.95 uniform, most spend in the hundreds for one.

No, I wouldn't think that anyone would be using a 19.95 paper thin dobok in competition, though there is nothing preventing them from doing so either (aside from common sense). But you can use one to get started in taekwondo. Kendo uniforms are substantially more expensive, competing or not.

You are right we have chosen this sport for our childern but at the same time the WTF does not have to have so many approved ones out there for all these different orgs. to use and players need to buy.

Absolutely. Really all that is needed is to require a standardized system so that anyone's hogu will work with anyone's scoring. Problem solved.

Daniel

 

[LaJust]

you need to buy One Red and One Blue which is a Grand

I may have misunderstood your post but if you are referring to LaJust equipment for USAT events, each competitor only needs a single Hogu ($479-$499) if they do not rent. We changed them to white at the start of this year (based on some vocal but justifiable feedback) and we have not sold the "Red" and "Blue" type since then.

and there is on an average of five different sets you need, so it is really around $5000.00 and they do not last. They are built so you have to keep upgrading every year.

LaJust Hogus are available in sizes 1 through 5. The most popular size is size 3. Each competitor needs ONE Hogu. Most gyms will purchase either two sizes or a full set (in which case there is a discount) depending on their classes. LaJust Hogus are definitely built to last, in the US we have a one year warranty and include FREE upgrades to the latest sensor technology and should WTF rules change that would require a change to the Hogu we will cover that too (regardless of warranty coverage). No other EBP vendor has the extensive coverage that we do.

While we have had some unanticipated technical issues during the past year, there are no Hogus that we have sold to date in the US that we have not covered under warranty repair. The first Hogus were red and blue (version 7), the second generation were white (version 8) and the final generation is version 8.1 which have been getting very positive reviews and resolve static issues, includes additional self-diagnostics for the panels and updated sensor technology that now shows and records when a correctly formed kick is made but without enough power to score (you will see this indicated on the big screen scoring display).

Sock are only good for one tournament if they last for a whole tournament so that is an additional cost over and over again.

The LaJust socks are $42 and we did free replacements in the US when a manufacturing defect was found in the zipper and free replacements for the old velcro kind. They definitely last if you treat them well and wash them in a cold delicate cycle and hang to dry as we have evidence from our own LaJust training gyms of this.

I believe our warranty and support of our equipment in the US far exceeds any other EBP manufacturer though I concede that we have experienced growth pains that have had a detrimental impact on our service at times but we are committed to improving and listening to the feedback given about our products (sorry, USAT complaints I can't do anything about... :uhyeah: )

 

[terryl965]

I may have misunderstood your post but if you are referring to LaJust equipment for USAT events, each competitor only needs a single Hogu ($479-$499) if they do not rent. We changed them to white at the start of this year (based on some vocal but justifiable feedback) and we have not sold the "Red" and "Blue" type since then.


LaJust Hogus are available in sizes 1 through 5. The most popular size is size 3. Each competitor needs ONE Hogu. Most gyms will purchase either two sizes or a full set (in which case there is a discount) depending on their classes. LaJust Hogus are definitely built to last, in the US we have a one year warranty and include FREE upgrades to the latest sensor technology and should WTF rules change that would require a change to the Hogu we will cover that too (regardless of warranty coverage). No other EBP vendor has the extensive coverage that we do.

While we have had some unanticipated technical issues during the past year, there are no Hogus that we have sold to date in the US that we have not covered under warranty repair. The first Hogus were red and blue (version 7), the second generation were white (version 8) and the final generation is version 8.1 which have been getting very positive reviews and resolve static issues, includes additional self-diagnostics for the panels and updated sensor technology that now shows and records when a correctly formed kick is made but without enough power to score (you will see this indicated on the big screen scoring display).


The LaJust socks are $42 and we did free replacements in the US when a manufacturing defect was found in the zipper and free replacements for the old velcro kind. They definitely last if you treat them well and wash them in a cold delicate cycle and hang to dry as we have evidence from our own LaJust training gyms of this.

I believe our warranty and support of our equipment in the US far exceeds any other EBP manufacturer though I concede that we have experienced growth pains that have had a detrimental impact on our service at times but we are committed to improving and listening to the feedback given about our products (sorry, USAT complaints I can't do anything about... :uhyeah: )

Look lets just say you brought the whole set up at the beginning that is a total of 12 of them at a cost with dicounts of 20%, so 12 x 500 = $6000.00 - $1200.00 = $4800.00 for a complete set, Now add in the triggers and software another $18000 to run the system and socks, I believe wholesale they was $32.00 a piece at 100 pairs that is another $3200.00. So lets add this up $4800.00 + $3200.00 + $1800.00 = $9800.00 plus tax and shipping. I do not care how you would like to slice the pie if you buy everything you need to use it for your school, you are spending that $10,000 - $11,000 for the system. Now if you can seel me the whole set up for $ 3000.00 please do.

Here is a copy to the link do the math it is expensive https://www.daedousa.com/index.php/en/catalog/category/view/id/60

Now please do not get me wrong here, but do not act like it is not that expensive either.

 

[taekwondodo]

Dear LaJust Rep,
I bought a pair of size 3 Red & Blue e-hogu in Feb. 2010. Now they came out with the neutral hogus. I also have dropped weight and at the lowest weight for female fighters 108. How can I go and exchange for the neutral color, and the correct size hogus since my hogus are non-usable for any USAT tournaments.

An advise would greatly appreciated.

 

[d1jinx]

The website still shows the red/blue colors.... when did they go neutral?

WTF.... i must have been sleeping!

 

[ATC]

The website still shows the red/blue colors.... when did they go neutral?

WTF.... i must have been sleeping!

Last 2 major tourneys here in the U.S. have been the neutral (all white) with red and blue velcro flags on the front and back. U.S. Open and the Sr. and Jr. Nationals. Fighters did not even take off the hogus, They just ripped off the blue flag and replaced it with a red one, or visa versa. Fighters just finished and went and sat down with the hogus still on. Made things go much faster.

 

[d1jinx]

Last 2 major tourneys here in the U.S. have been the neutral (all white) with red and blue velcro flags on the front and back. U.S. Open and the Sr. and Jr. Nationals. Fighters did not even take off the hogus, They just ripped off the blue flag and replaced it with a red one, or visa versa. Fighters just finished and went and sat down with the hogus still on. Made things go much faster.

Ah... I did see that. for some reason I wasn't thinking. I thought they were saying they went to an ALL neutral hogu... duh... I need to stop spacing out...

 

[terryl965]

Even with the nuetal ones if you are buying a complete set for your school you still would buy two of every size. So my numbers are right with the actual cost.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Last 2 major tourneys here in the U.S. have been the neutral (all white) with red and blue velcro flags on the front and back. U.S. Open and the Sr. and Jr. Nationals. Fighters did not even take off the hogus, They just ripped off the blue flag and replaced it with a red one, or visa versa. Fighters just finished and went and sat down with the hogus still on. Made things go much faster.

That makes a ton more sense!

Daniel

 

[miguksaram]

Mine was 650.00 by the time all was said and done. I am aware of the 399.99 set. I generally try to avoid the least expensive when it comes to protective gear, however.

I shop at e-mudo.com mostly, though I have gotten a number of things through e-bogu as well.

My point however, is that other sports do require similar investments. With kendo, you don't have official corporate sponsors or gear to rent at the events. You either have it or you do not.

Fencing, like TKD is a martial sport with electric scoring and you are looking at similar money there too.

Daniel

I agree...I was just wondering where you got your gear.

 

[LaJust]

Dear LaJust Rep,
I bought a pair of size 3 Red & Blue e-hogu in Feb. 2010. Now they came out with the neutral hogus. I also have dropped weight and at the lowest weight for female fighters 108. How can I go and exchange for the neutral color, and the correct size hogus since my hogus are non-usable for any USAT tournaments.

An advise would greatly appreciated.

Please check your private messages and I'll get you taken care of

 

[miguksaram]

LaJust Rep,

Can you please answer my earlier questions about life expectancy, repair costs, etc? Thank you.

 

[LaJust]

Even with the nuetal ones if you are buying a complete set for your school you still would buy two of every size. So my numbers are right with the actual cost.

Terryl, now I see where you were going with your numbers. The thread had been talking about individual purchases of equipment but you are speaking about the cost to gyms on buying a system. Thanks for clarifying for me!

While I do appreciate your point (I probably sound like a sales person but actually I'm the CIO) we have a number of gyms that have shown that after buying the LaJust training system equipment (which is designed to be used every day and keep the students engaged) their enrollment increased. At least one I know reported a 50% increase (see the video at

) which translates into a healthy payback for the investment. We have also been looking at third parties that will do payment plans and hope to be able to offer that in the future.

In regards again to the investment, I would like to relate the real life story of a gym that contacted us recently. They wanted to buy our full e-gym system (the complete set of hogus, our touch screen training system and competition receiver) but didn't have the funds. They were looking to raise the money by doing a "kick-a-thon" with our training equipment. Basically, the kids would get sponsored as to how many correctly formed kicks they could do in 30 seconds on our system. We worked with them so they could have a loaner system for the weekend and I spent an hour on the phone walking them through how to set it up. By the end of the weekend they had raised more than the amount they needed to purchase a system (I believe they wanted the $5,450 system). The kids and parents are now more excited than before and placed the order with us last week PM me if you are a gym owner and would like to get in touch with them about their experience.

Jonathan

 

[LaJust]

LaJust Rep,

Can you please answer my earlier questions about life expectancy, repair costs, etc? Thank you.

Absolutely. We provide a one year warranty on the equipment. The life expectancy is going to depend on if this is for an individual use or being used constantly at a gym but they are designed for years of use and we have Hogus that have been in use since 2008 with only the front panels being replaced. We stress test Hogu using baseball bats to make sure we are giving them serious punishment!

The front panels sensors (that are being kicked) are the part that is most likely to fail since they are taking the most abuse. In our version 8 and 8.1 hogus we have made these thicker so they will last much longer. However, if they were to fail outside of our warranty period the price is just $30 per panel to replace plus shipping costs.

 

[terryl965]

Johnathon, I will pm you about some issue we are having and maybe you can help.