Miles
Senior Master
OK, if I did this right, you can see a chart showing High Dan Test results for the 2 tests held in the second half of 2002:
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View attachment $scan0001.jpg
USAT and the special promotion
- Thread starter terryl965
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troubleenuf
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OK not to cause controversy but... do they fail these people for a week, a month, a year??? How long do they go before they retest them?
Miles
Senior Master
You are not causing controversy, just asking a legitimate question. The answer is they can test at the next cycle-for those ranks (6th-9th dan), there are 4 high dan tests per year, so it is the next quarter. But, they have to pay for the test again. Lower ranks (1st-5th dan) have a more frequent testing cycle-it could be monthly.
Now, if I was testing for 6-9th dan and I failed, I would be darn sure that I was prepared the next time out.
I have been reading through all these posts over the last week or so and it is amazing to see so much wild speculation and misinformation. In any case, I attended the seminar and test and will try to summarize my thoughts. First I should say I was well qualified to test for 6th (met all KKW reqs), I was well prepared, performed very well and I expect to pass - but no word yet as of 3/3/09.
First the seminar. As others have mentioned the seminar was terrific and Master Park was professional and all business. He put a lot of effort into the seminar and everyone I talked to thought highly of him and his teachings. Day 1 covered all the Taegeuk forms, followed by the black belt forms up through 7th dan. Day 2 focused on the highest forms required for your rank (compulsory), e.g. pyongwon for 4th, Jitae for 6th, etc. Although the room was too small for the large turnout, alternating the testing groups worked out just fine.
The Requirements. It was reiterated that your compulsory form was the most important one to nail, along with 1 additional form per the listed KKW requirements. http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/examination/examination03.jsp?div=03
Additionally 1 minute of demonstration style sparring was required, not competition style sparring, so they could judge our technique, movement, etc. (In other words, dont go too hard, use a variety of techniques and be real fancy)
The test. The test was conducted beginning with those testing for 4th dan, then 5, 6 and 7. Groups were brought up according to their current dan rank. So, for example lets look at the 6th dan groupings. All current 3rd dans skipping to 6th had to do the same forms (taegeuk 8, koryo, taebaek, pyongwon and jitae); 4th dans skipping to 6th did the same forms (Koryo, Pyongwon TWICE, Jitae) etc. The pattern became clear that you were being tested for the rank in which you applied AND for each rank you were skipping (if you were skipping.) That is why some testers performed different forms and different number of forms. This held true for every tester I spoke with.
For those of us who like to spar the sparring portion was way too short. J Most people got cut off in less than a minute, but quite frankly it is easy to judge someones technique and ability from just a few techniques. Many testers had a hard time understanding demo style and were going way too hard. The KKW officials were not happy with that and warned the testers that it would be a mark against them.
Rumors or Fact? For what its worth
I heard from a KKW official 3-5 weeks after the test the usat would notify us of the results.
Same official said about 40% will fail. If you didnt know a form it was an automatic fail.
One of the Korean testers had dinner with the KKW officials and told me they were not happy about the position they were in. They cannot fail everyone because it would harm the relationship with the US and USAT. On the other hand they cannot pass everyone because it would diminish the KKWs credibility. They realize there is a lot of scrutiny and attention on the special testing and will be very strict with their scoring.
To sum it up, it was a great experience. Most of the testers appeared qualified but of course the ones who were unprepared or unqualified were easy to spot. I dont think the kkw will have a hard time finding plenty of people to fail. Although the physical demands of the test itself were not that great the sheer amount of preparation in and out of the seminar certainly was. Many of us worked long and hard and in the end walked away very proud with a feeling of accomplishment.
This is getting to be a long post. I am glad to clarify if any of this is unclear.
First the seminar. As others have mentioned the seminar was terrific and Master Park was professional and all business. He put a lot of effort into the seminar and everyone I talked to thought highly of him and his teachings. Day 1 covered all the Taegeuk forms, followed by the black belt forms up through 7th dan. Day 2 focused on the highest forms required for your rank (compulsory), e.g. pyongwon for 4th, Jitae for 6th, etc. Although the room was too small for the large turnout, alternating the testing groups worked out just fine.
The Requirements. It was reiterated that your compulsory form was the most important one to nail, along with 1 additional form per the listed KKW requirements. http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/examination/examination03.jsp?div=03
Additionally 1 minute of demonstration style sparring was required, not competition style sparring, so they could judge our technique, movement, etc. (In other words, dont go too hard, use a variety of techniques and be real fancy)
The test. The test was conducted beginning with those testing for 4th dan, then 5, 6 and 7. Groups were brought up according to their current dan rank. So, for example lets look at the 6th dan groupings. All current 3rd dans skipping to 6th had to do the same forms (taegeuk 8, koryo, taebaek, pyongwon and jitae); 4th dans skipping to 6th did the same forms (Koryo, Pyongwon TWICE, Jitae) etc. The pattern became clear that you were being tested for the rank in which you applied AND for each rank you were skipping (if you were skipping.) That is why some testers performed different forms and different number of forms. This held true for every tester I spoke with.
For those of us who like to spar the sparring portion was way too short. J Most people got cut off in less than a minute, but quite frankly it is easy to judge someones technique and ability from just a few techniques. Many testers had a hard time understanding demo style and were going way too hard. The KKW officials were not happy with that and warned the testers that it would be a mark against them.
Rumors or Fact? For what its worth
I heard from a KKW official 3-5 weeks after the test the usat would notify us of the results.
Same official said about 40% will fail. If you didnt know a form it was an automatic fail.
One of the Korean testers had dinner with the KKW officials and told me they were not happy about the position they were in. They cannot fail everyone because it would harm the relationship with the US and USAT. On the other hand they cannot pass everyone because it would diminish the KKWs credibility. They realize there is a lot of scrutiny and attention on the special testing and will be very strict with their scoring.
To sum it up, it was a great experience. Most of the testers appeared qualified but of course the ones who were unprepared or unqualified were easy to spot. I dont think the kkw will have a hard time finding plenty of people to fail. Although the physical demands of the test itself were not that great the sheer amount of preparation in and out of the seminar certainly was. Many of us worked long and hard and in the end walked away very proud with a feeling of accomplishment.
This is getting to be a long post. I am glad to clarify if any of this is unclear.
Miles
Senior Master
Tkdarch1, welcome to MT! Can you give us a little background-what was your KKW rank and what rank did you test for?
If the KKW said it would be 3-5 weeks, that means the results might not be posted for another 2 or so weeks. I am getting the impression folks are waiting for results any day now.
Kind of unrelated, but I tested a young man in December, 08 for 1st poom. We knew his KKW poom # from the website in early Jan 09 but just received his certificate. I've never had a delay of this length ( I deal directly w/KKW) and was a little surprised.
If the KKW said it would be 3-5 weeks, that means the results might not be posted for another 2 or so weeks. I am getting the impression folks are waiting for results any day now.
Kind of unrelated, but I tested a young man in December, 08 for 1st poom. We knew his KKW poom # from the website in early Jan 09 but just received his certificate. I've never had a delay of this length ( I deal directly w/KKW) and was a little surprised.
Miles, Thanks. I am more of a lurker than a poster when it comes to forums 
I am a KKW 4th and tested for 6th.
The 3-5 weeks comment was straight from the official, but who knows. My experience tells me that we (the testers) should be preparred for anything because the KKW makes their own rules. My point is we can postulate, but all we can really do is wait and see. I hope it is any day but I wouldn't be surprised if it took a lot longer.
As for your delay, perhaps the holidays slowed them down? I've had delays before with USAT Dan office and the KKW. I will be processing a few in the next few weeks, perhaps I will send one directly the KKW and another via USAT and see which is faster...
I am a KKW 4th and tested for 6th.
The 3-5 weeks comment was straight from the official, but who knows. My experience tells me that we (the testers) should be preparred for anything because the KKW makes their own rules. My point is we can postulate, but all we can really do is wait and see. I hope it is any day but I wouldn't be surprised if it took a lot longer.
As for your delay, perhaps the holidays slowed them down? I've had delays before with USAT Dan office and the KKW. I will be processing a few in the next few weeks, perhaps I will send one directly the KKW and another via USAT and see which is faster...
OP
- Thread Starter
- #88
tkdarch1 welcome to the site, glad to see someone else perspective on the testing. Let me ask you thiis in all fairness do you believe the test to have been more od a fomality than actual test? I am asking because some other felt that way.
Also I agree no matter which way the KKW goes on this they end up looking bad, so why do it? That is the confusing part to me.
Also I agree no matter which way the KKW goes on this they end up looking bad, so why do it? That is the confusing part to me.
Manny
Senior Master
I'm with Terry, I'm a 1 Dan Black Belt from Jido Kwan, I have no KUKIWON certifiation, I tested on December 1987, I leqv TKD training in 1990 if I recall well, I returned TKD training on may 2007, this is 17-18 without training,testing or dan promoting, Do I feel worry? NO, I don't feel worry, last year my sambunim asked me several times to do 2dan black belt test and I refused cause I was not prepared, this yare with the will of God and myself will test for 2dan black belt, it will took me 22 years to go from 1 dan to 2 dan so what?
The only thing I want to do is keep training and learning and improving, mayve when I turn 45 I will do 3dan black belt test but, I'm not worry about been 60 and only be a 2dan black belt.
The number of dans does not say nothing to me but these Dans eeb earned with sweat,responsability and respect tru good training and work, I will never pay big money to pass an examination or testing to try to get higher ranks for the time I was off TKD.
I'am a black belt and this is waht really maters to me, the dans can came along with good hard work.
Manny
Perhaps it was more of a formality if I compare it to the physically demanding and long tests I have had in the past. But for that matter, I feel most tests are a formality. As an instructor I know what my students can do before they are invited to test and when testing myself I am always prepared beforehand. So a test is about just doing what you do well during a formal test. However my personal opinion is that high dan testing (5th dan and above) should be less about a physically demanding test and technical perfection and more about growth in other areas, such as the value you are bringing to the taekwondo community, be it through teaching at your school, involvement in community, state or national organizations. I think technical excellence should be achieved all the way up through 4th dan as a prerequisite for upper dan testing. I dont want to turn this topic into a conversation about testing criteria, but rather so you understand my perspective when I say that calling the special testing simply a formality as a derogatory statement isnt necessarily justified.
But lets see what happens. If 90% fail no one would consider it a formality. If 50% fail would you still consider it a formality? Probably not. But certainly if only 10% fail it would be a shame. My hope is that the KKW maintains a high standard so that the value of dan rank continues to be meaningful.
From everything I gather it is very clear to me that the purpose for this test was many-fold: to squash the USAT Dan Cert program, increase the KKWs presence in the US, strengthen the relationship between the US/USAT and the KKW, encourage 100s of US masters to promote their students through the KKW, etc. Like it or not the KKW is a business and the US is a MAJOR client. They must keep themselves relevant! And as you well know, when you mix business with taekwondo hierarchy, politics and money, it can get pretty messy! J
But lets see what happens. If 90% fail no one would consider it a formality. If 50% fail would you still consider it a formality? Probably not. But certainly if only 10% fail it would be a shame. My hope is that the KKW maintains a high standard so that the value of dan rank continues to be meaningful.
From everything I gather it is very clear to me that the purpose for this test was many-fold: to squash the USAT Dan Cert program, increase the KKWs presence in the US, strengthen the relationship between the US/USAT and the KKW, encourage 100s of US masters to promote their students through the KKW, etc. Like it or not the KKW is a business and the US is a MAJOR client. They must keep themselves relevant! And as you well know, when you mix business with taekwondo hierarchy, politics and money, it can get pretty messy! J
If you don't mind me asking, TKDarch1, why were you testing for a 6th dan when you currently hold a fourth?
If you addressed that in a previous post, my apologies for selective blindness.
Not picking at you, I was just curious. Its easy to speculate as to the motivations of people testing, but its better to simply ask someone who tested.
Thanks,
Daniel
If you addressed that in a previous post, my apologies for selective blindness.
Not picking at you, I was just curious. Its easy to speculate as to the motivations of people testing, but its better to simply ask someone who tested.
Thanks,
Daniel
Short answer, to make up for lost time. My original master did not issue KKW's, although he charged plenty, and instead issued school certificates with a KKW number on them (his) and he kept us in the dark as to their significance (info was hard to come by in the 80's!) After nearly 10 years without I was able to finally get a KKW after I began training elsewere. Since then I have been fairly slow to test only because it never mattered that much to me, as I was busy competing, teaching, etc. I was due for my 5th when this opportunity came up and I discussed it with my GM, who is very well known and respected around the world, and knowing my history, dedication, skill, etc. he fully supported me. Without his blessing I would not have tested as ultimately my relationship with him is more important to me and frankly... I still don't care that much about rank! I don't wear stripes on my belt and my students do not call me Master. I take pride in my ability and what I give back.
The stories I have read on here, if true, about those going from 1st to 7th or what not without having trained for years are shameful. I hope and suspect these are the exceptions, and don't represent the majority.
I take pride in my ability and what I give back.The stories I have read on here, if true, about those going from 1st to 7th or what not without having trained for years are shameful. I hope and suspect these are the exceptions, and don't represent the majority.
I have known others who were in the same position. I appreciate the response.
Daniel
Daniel
You're missing the point of what he's saying. He said there have been subtle changes and if you are able to pick up the changes in two days. Obviously, the Grand Masters who conducted the test would be able to tell someone who had the skill, and needed to tweak a few things from someone who was just learning from the beginning.
Who were you addressing?
Daniel
Daniel
Jphtkd
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This was posted today on the USAT website:
Notice to Kukkiwon Special Testing Candidates
April 07, 2009
USA Taekwondo has received notification from Kukkiwon that the test results and certificates will be finalized as of April 20, 2009. We will privately notify all candidates of the results and mail the certificates as soon as they are received. We apologize for the delay in obtaining these results. There were a number of sensitive issues with Kukkiwon relating to the testing that needed resolution prior to relase of the results. USAT apologizes for any inconvenience and thanks all of the candidates for their patience.
Notice to Kukkiwon Special Testing Candidates
April 07, 2009
USA Taekwondo has received notification from Kukkiwon that the test results and certificates will be finalized as of April 20, 2009. We will privately notify all candidates of the results and mail the certificates as soon as they are received. We apologize for the delay in obtaining these results. There were a number of sensitive issues with Kukkiwon relating to the testing that needed resolution prior to relase of the results. USAT apologizes for any inconvenience and thanks all of the candidates for their patience.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #98
The few that I know have not heard anything yet and nothing was posted on the USAT website earlier today.
Miles
Senior Master
I suggest checking out the KKW website to see if the rank went through. But also remember that KKWs for US citizens are processed/dated on the 5th and 20th of each month. Since Korea is 13 hrs ahead of us, you should be able to see if the rank went through by now (8:25pm Eastern) since it is tomorrow 9:25am there. Otherwise you'd need to wait til Cinco de Mayo.
I checked KKW website, no change as of 11:20PM PST. No one else has heard either, to my knowledge.
Although results are to be "finalized as of April 20, 2009" I suspect it could still take a few weeks for the KKW to mail the certificates to the MAC, and then to have the MAC turn around and mail them out to the individual applicants. We'll see! I doubt anything will be posted one USAT site since they said applicants will be privately notified.
Oh, yeah, a MAC insider informed me the results are going through the MAC office (GM JP Choi).
Although results are to be "finalized as of April 20, 2009" I suspect it could still take a few weeks for the KKW to mail the certificates to the MAC, and then to have the MAC turn around and mail them out to the individual applicants. We'll see! I doubt anything will be posted one USAT site since they said applicants will be privately notified.
Oh, yeah, a MAC insider informed me the results are going through the MAC office (GM JP Choi).
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