USAT and the special promotion

[terryl965]

This special Dan testing was and is a joke from my point of view, I was one of them that did not have my rank turned in and found out twenty years later that my old GM never did it does it matter to me no, why because my training matters not rank. I would love to be a 7-8 by now and should be but skipping 3-5 ranks at a special testing just does not sit right by me. God has a plan for me and for whatever reason he made sure my path for enternal enlightment stayed the correct course. I do not want nothing I personnally do not feel I am worth, I know I am a great 4th Dan and I am able to get to 3rd for my students, hopefully one day I will get there but you see I am only 50 and I plan on training until death so I am not in any hurry if a circumstance comes up I have legit 6-7- and 8th that will help me because they know me. USAT and the KKW was about money plan and simple and I am not knocking anybody that took the test they had there reasons to do it, but I have my personal beliefs and morals along with my Intrigrity which is way more important to me and my school, I can look in the mirror and relize that I have been truthful to my way of thinking.

God bless all those people that belief this was there only way of doing it and God bless those of us that belief our time will come over the years.

 

[NPTKD]

First of all that wasn't a bracelet it was a wrist band that you had to wear showing that you were registerd for the seminar. You see thats the problem...People talking about things that they just know nothing about...Like the guy who though it was agisnt the law to issue dan certificates. Don't you people research what it is you claim to be so involved in?I hear this crap all the time. Buy a book, google something, write a congressmen.... i dont know, but before you open your mouth know what it is that your talking about.

 

[NPTKD]

And... the USAT Dan cerificate doesn't say Kukkiwon on it.. Come on man!
Think.....

 

[NPTKD]

Last one... Special Dan test.. Well i dont know about you but for my first 4 dan testings the Kukkiwon didn't fly over to sit next to my grandmaster to whatch me text! They did this time... SOUNDS SPECIAL TO ME!

 

[StuartA]

First of all that wasn't a bracelet it was a wrist band that you had to wear showing that you were registerd for the seminar. You see thats the problem...People talking about things that they just know nothing about...

Thats why I asked!! thanks for explaining. Notice the smiley as well!!

Stuart

 

[terryl965]

First of all that wasn't a bracelet it was a wrist band that you had to wear showing that you were registerd for the seminar. You see thats the problem...People talking about things that they just know nothing about...Like the guy who though it was agisnt the law to issue dan certificates. Don't you people research what it is you claim to be so involved in?I hear this crap all the time. Buy a book, google something, write a congressmen.... i dont know, but before you open your mouth know what it is that your talking about.

Well first off I do I know what I am saying, been part of the USAT and the USTU for years and I still feel the same way. The KKW issue rank but like I have always said they never ever know who is getting what because any 4th or higher can sell rank to anybody and there is no real guidelines to it. The USAT and the KKW did this for money plan and simple, my opinion and I will keep saying it to everyone. I do not care who you are, you could have got 1-3 without even a test what does that sound like to the outside world. Please before comdemmong folks know who you condem and make sure you know we are here and support for the most part alot of what is being done with the KKW and the USAT.
.

 

[terryl965]

Last one... Special Dan test.. Well i dont know about you but for my first 4 dan testings the Kukkiwon didn't fly over to sit next to my grandmaster to whatch me text! They did this time... SOUNDS SPECIAL TO ME!

If you was making a million or so dollars from it you would fly over and sit next to a pile of craps as well.

 

[terryl965]

First of all that wasn't a bracelet it was a wrist band that you had to wear showing that you were registerd for the seminar. You see thats the problem...People talking about things that they just know nothing about...Like the guy who though it was agisnt the law to issue dan certificates. Don't you people research what it is you claim to be so involved in?I hear this crap all the time. Buy a book, google something, write a congressmen.... i dont know, but before you open your mouth know what it is that your talking about.

Right but look how close everybody was how much realistically did the panel really see with so many doing it at the same time? not much I would imagine.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

And... the USAT Dan cerificate doesn't say Kukkiwon on it.. Come on man!
Think.....

Unless USAT's website is lying:

http://www.usa-taekwondo.us/content/index/2358

... and I doubt that it is, then dan certs most likely do have the Kukkiwon logo and name on them. Otherwise it would be a USAT dan with no need for USAT to make this statement:

The Dan office at USA Taekwondo provides a direct link between the United States and the Kukkiwon office in Korea. It is our goal to provide efficient processing of your students Black Belt certificates and to provide a support system with Kukkiwon. The Dan office follows all rules and regulations set forth by Kukkiwon and the World Taekwondo Federation.

If this statement is somehow untrue, then take it up with USAT.

Edit: I removed a sentence, as it was unnecessary and when I read it, I felt that I came accross as hostile. Apologies.


Anyway, to my knowledge, there is no USAT dan certificate. They simply act as a go between, so you're only correct that a USAT dan cert doesn't say Kukkiwon insomuchas there is no USAT dan certificate according to the information on USAT's own website. Any cert that they issue, if it is coming from the Kukkiwon as their website states, would indeed say Kukkiwon on it.

If they are issuing USAT dan certs that do not say Kukkiwon, then the above statement is very misleading.

Daniel

 

[dortiz]

Well I have one.
The top center is the face of an eagle and then left and right its has a cacade of eagles falling to each side. It then states "Black Belt Certificate".
USA TaeKwondo Presents this certification to "BLAH BLAH BLAH" in recognition of Completing the black belt promotion test following the USA Taekwondo inc., Martial Arts Commision's guidelines. Colorado Springs , Colorado.
Dan number Dan Issued
Dan Rank Date Of Birth
The signed by Senior G.M. JoonPyo Choi Co Chairman
Senior G.M Hong Kong Kim Co Chairman
G.M. (instructor)
(Finally) David Askins CEO secretary General USA Taekwondo Inc

At the bottom is the USAtaekwondo logo USA Olypic rings.

Nowhere is any Kukkiwon reference on this document. Now this may have changed recenty so that I dont know.

Dave O.

 

[NPTKD]

Again.. that picture is not of the actual dan test!!!! I was there this picture was taken from the seminar. There were six of us called up at a time each given numbers and directed to stand on a peice of tape ( to make sure we stopped where we started) a total of four judges. As for the USAT Dan certificate... I HAVE ONE! The USAT does two things in regards to dan:
1. To act as a direct link to Kukkiwon for dan certitifates issued from KKW
2. To issue their own Dan certificates that are not linked to the KKW

I have both and also an AAU 5th Dan. I had to retext because KKW does not recognize USAT or AAU Dans. This text , like it was done in all the other countries was to get people back under KKW and to stop issuing thier own dan certificates.

 

[dortiz]

"I have both and also an AAU 5th Dan. I had to retext because KKW does not recognize USAT or AAU Dans. This text , like it was done in all the other countries was to get people back under KKW and to stop issuing thier own dan certificates."


Here is again what we are talking about.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Well I have one.
The top center is the face of an eagle and then left and right its has a cacade of eagles falling to each side. It then states "Black Belt Certificate".
USA TaeKwondo Presents this certification to "BLAH BLAH BLAH" in recognition of Completing the black belt promotion test following the USA Taekwondo inc., Martial Arts Commision's guidelines. Colorado Springs , Colorado.
Dan number Dan Issued
Dan Rank Date Of Birth
The signed by Senior G.M. JoonPyo Choi Co Chairman
Senior G.M Hong Kong Kim Co Chairman
G.M. (instructor)
(Finally) David Askins CEO secretary General USA Taekwondo Inc

At the bottom is the USAtaekwondo logo USA Olypic rings.

Nowhere is any Kukkiwon reference on this document. Now this may have changed recenty so that I dont know.

Dave O.

Wow! So in essence, the Kukkiwon is registering USAT dans, most likely getting a cut of the fee, but not putting their own name on the line.

I'm not sure which is worse; getting KKW certs through USAT or USAT being financially shackled to the KKW, most likely to retain member eligibility in international competition through the WTF, even though their certs don't have 'Kukkiwon' printed on them.

Here's a question, Dave: does your cert come up on a dan check on the Kukkiwon website?

Daniel

 

[NPTKD]

And as far as setting next to a piece of crap... Well you should try setting next to a math book. 200 people texting... You do the math? I know what KKW charges. Maybe you got ripped off on your text fee! I would be mad too! Soory for your luck.

 

[NPTKD]

one more time.... The USAT Dan program & the KKW Dan program are two different and seperate things. The USAT charges $15.00 per application that they send to the KKW. Thier Dan certificate is $25.00 doesn't sound like a lot of money to me.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

As for the USAT Dan certificate... I HAVE ONE! The USAT does two things in regards to dan:
1. To act as a direct link to Kukkiwon for dan certitifates issued from KKW
2. To issue their own Dan certificates that are not linked to the KKW

I have both and also an AAU 5th Dan. I had to retext because KKW does not recognize USAT or AAU Dans. This text , like it was done in all the other countries was to get people back under KKW and to stop issuing thier own dan certificates.

Your last statement most likely answers the question that I asked of Dave.

Interesting. There is no indication of a separate USAT dan cert on their website that I have ever seen. It hasn't been an issue for me; I had my Kukkiwon certification independently of USAT.

Incidentally, I am not averse to USAT issuing their own rank. If anything, I'd prefer it. USAT does not promote the same taekwondo that the Kukkiwon does, though there is overlap.

I still don't see a need for USAT to issue dan certs at all, particularly as they are focused on sport/competition. But that is a topic for another thread.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

one more time.... The USAT Dan program & the KKW Dan program are two different and seperate things. The USAT charges $15.00 per application that they send to the KKW. Thier Dan certificate is $25.00 doesn't sound like a lot of money to me.

You beat me to the enter key by two minutes.

25 dollars for a dan cert. That is beyond entirely reasonable.

Daniel

 

[NPTKD]

Article 1 : Purpose
The purpose of these guidelines is to standardize the procedures of USA Taekwondo (The U.S. National Governing Body for Taekwondo) for the issuance of USAT Dan certificates in order to further develop Taekwondo throughout the United States and provide additional promotion tests to the USAT membership. In addition to following Kukkiwon standards, USAT will provide individual instructors with the opportunity to receive additional certifications.


Article 2 : Application
These Guidelines shall be applied to the following:

2.1. Taekwondo instructors and their students who have been duly enrolled as USAT members of a USAT member club.

2.2. USAT member instructors and their students who are unaffiliated with a USAT member club.

2.3. A USAT member who has a taekwondo Dan certificate issued by the Kukkiwon or the AAU that would like to receive a USAT Dan certificate.




Article 3 : Rights
USAT shall be the governing body with exclusive rights over the USAT Dan promotion tests that will be held at regional and/or national events, including approval of promotion tests, test performance, supervision of promotion tests including screening of Dan or Poom applications, certificates and sanctions of Dan or Poom certificates, setting of all fees, and appointment of all testing commissions and commissioners.

​

 

[dortiz]

The USATaekwondo certs do not put a Dan registry on the Kukkiwon. I have one because I went and paid $400 to school that had a G.M. who would send in the official Kukkiwon form which is now on the web but used to not be available. Regardless it can only be sent by a Kukkiwon recognized higher Dan.

This entire thing is about what is being said right here. The USAT wanted to be the folks to send the Kukkiwon form in but the Kukkiwon said nice work thanks...tell you what we will come out there instead. The USAT Cert is just like your local school one. Its valid but not Kukkiwon. Any USAT school in the country should honor it as an official doc. Given this they are creating a U.S. version of Kukkiwon. It has merits. Its not expensive or a rip off. The only rip offs are the Korean Master who want 400 to thousands to send in a document that gets you Kukkiwon recognition.

Dave O.

 

[dortiz]

Some criticism was received prior to the event that Kukkiwon was just selling belts. If you ask anyone who attended you will hear quite a different story. The reality was that the course was rigorous and the testing anything but easy. It was USAT's and Kukkiwon's hope that everyone would come in experienced and prepared for the test, polishing up their forms during the two-day seminar. Unfortunately, the reality was quite different. There were a number of Masters that were clearly in over their heads and knew they could not test at the high level required for the Kukkiwon ranks. Some testers discovered this right away and dropped out or did not test. Others worked long hours into the night practicing their skills while working together with their fellow applicants to improve. The results will be learned in a few weeks. Not everyone will pass but all will have had a great education as to what is expected from a Kukkiwon examination process.

Just posted on the latest news from USAT