USAT and the special promotion
- Thread starter terryl965
- Start date
NPTKD pretty much answered the KKW registry question, but I appreciate the response. Just to clarify, the KKW requires you to be 4th dan to sign a dan cert.
My last comment about the 25 dollar fee was that it is beyond entirely reasonable. That is to say that it is extremely reasonable. I hope that if USAT redefines itself as a USA Kukkiwon that the fees will not increase.
Frankly, I'd love to see USAT be a US Kukkiwon analog.
Unfortunately, most US KKW schools use the testing process from white to black to nearly double their money over the tuition, particularly as the student gets closer to first dan/poom.
Daniel
wade
Black Belt
Being a member of the USAT's Martial Arts Council and having tested for my USAT and Kukkiwon 7th Dan at last years US Open in New Orleans I can also add, this was a serious and legitimate test. As far as I know there were no free rides. My test lasted for 3 1/2 hours. Many of the testers will not pass and many that do will not receive the rank they are trying to get. It will be a real learning experience for them.
Report from Las Vegas at the US Open 2009 as given to me.
James Wade Lewis
7th Dan USAT/KKW
Subject: Test
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:04:03 -0800
As far as the others, I’d be very surprised if 50% of us passed. I believe I was most amused by watching people in the holding area, people showing others how to do techniques correctly and then watching them completely fold at their testing, I mean people just seemed lost-leaving out moves, forgetting moves, mixing up forms, etc. There were people that “scratched” themselves before they even walked out to test. I was thinking to myself these are the people that are pushing there students to compete and do well. I guess most of them hadn’t tested in many years and I know that most of them never compete at tournaments either. I feel that competing definitely helps the “nerve factor” when performing in front of judges.
My friend watched most of the testing and was telling me how people would get half way through their forms and just blank out and quit and go back to their ready position. Some people couldn’t even get started with Pal Jang, others would watch someone to see how to do there form and then follow along. One person testing was complaining to one of the officials about the fact that the testers were having to do forms that weren’t on the “required” list, and was told that we were responsible to know everything below our rank.
I’ll be surprised if 50% pass but I believe that there will be that many that do, most of those 50% looked pretty good, probably about 25% or more had total confidence in their ability.
What no one told us was when we would find out our results? They only thing we were told was that 59 or less is a fail and 60 and above was passing on their point scale. And knowing that I had one “bobble” out of all my forms makes me feel confident that I should have scored pretty well on poomsae. Sparring – well if it was going on points I beat my opponent, but I really didn’t get the opportunity to show a lot of my technique and that is what the judges wanted to see. Time will tell. I’m glad it’s over and hope that I’ve passed their test.
One more note, we were originally told to do 2 forms each, but I believe that after the 4th Dan testers began and the judges realized that many of them didn’t know Pal Jang very well that they started having everyone do that form (I don’t believe the 7th Dan group had to). And then when the 5th Dan testers started they had to do Pal Jang which really hurt many of them and then when the judges realized they too were having problems with Pal Jang, they added Koryo and people were having problems with that as well. The 6th Dan group ended up doing 6 forms instead of the original planned 2. I went to this test expecting to do all of my colored belt and black belt forms and was surprised when I found out we were only going to do two then as the day went on they added more forms, each time making me happier as I knew that would give me a better chance to show the judges I know my forms.
I hope that the judges don’t think that the testing was a dismal failure overall because there were some very good participants but will be surprised if they do it again in the near future.
All in all it was a fantastic experience and wish all of those that tested the best of luck and am grateful that the USAT and KKW allowed us the opportunity to test for them.
Report from Las Vegas at the US Open 2009 as given to me.
James Wade Lewis
7th Dan USAT/KKW
Subject: Test
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:04:03 -0800
As far as the others, I’d be very surprised if 50% of us passed. I believe I was most amused by watching people in the holding area, people showing others how to do techniques correctly and then watching them completely fold at their testing, I mean people just seemed lost-leaving out moves, forgetting moves, mixing up forms, etc. There were people that “scratched” themselves before they even walked out to test. I was thinking to myself these are the people that are pushing there students to compete and do well. I guess most of them hadn’t tested in many years and I know that most of them never compete at tournaments either. I feel that competing definitely helps the “nerve factor” when performing in front of judges.
My friend watched most of the testing and was telling me how people would get half way through their forms and just blank out and quit and go back to their ready position. Some people couldn’t even get started with Pal Jang, others would watch someone to see how to do there form and then follow along. One person testing was complaining to one of the officials about the fact that the testers were having to do forms that weren’t on the “required” list, and was told that we were responsible to know everything below our rank.
I’ll be surprised if 50% pass but I believe that there will be that many that do, most of those 50% looked pretty good, probably about 25% or more had total confidence in their ability.
What no one told us was when we would find out our results? They only thing we were told was that 59 or less is a fail and 60 and above was passing on their point scale. And knowing that I had one “bobble” out of all my forms makes me feel confident that I should have scored pretty well on poomsae. Sparring – well if it was going on points I beat my opponent, but I really didn’t get the opportunity to show a lot of my technique and that is what the judges wanted to see. Time will tell. I’m glad it’s over and hope that I’ve passed their test.
One more note, we were originally told to do 2 forms each, but I believe that after the 4th Dan testers began and the judges realized that many of them didn’t know Pal Jang very well that they started having everyone do that form (I don’t believe the 7th Dan group had to). And then when the 5th Dan testers started they had to do Pal Jang which really hurt many of them and then when the judges realized they too were having problems with Pal Jang, they added Koryo and people were having problems with that as well. The 6th Dan group ended up doing 6 forms instead of the original planned 2. I went to this test expecting to do all of my colored belt and black belt forms and was surprised when I found out we were only going to do two then as the day went on they added more forms, each time making me happier as I knew that would give me a better chance to show the judges I know my forms.
I hope that the judges don’t think that the testing was a dismal failure overall because there were some very good participants but will be surprised if they do it again in the near future.
All in all it was a fantastic experience and wish all of those that tested the best of luck and am grateful that the USAT and KKW allowed us the opportunity to test for them.
NPTKD
Brown Belt
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I tested for 5th. Had to do Pal jang, Koryo,Taebek and Pyungwon. Didn't have any problems with any of them. Sparring was too short I agree. But I was able to fight twice. Felt good! Alot of people were under prepaired and those are the people that are making the rest of us look bad.
NPTKD
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As far as the USAT Dan certificates go, I spoke3 with Kukkiwon over six months ago to ask about the testing that was to take place in Cananda, that is how I found out about the U.S. testing. They told me that part of the agreement between the member nations was if Kukkiwon were to hold these test, then all member nation will stop issuing their own Dan certificates. I ask Mr. Askinas about this about three months ago and was told it was the first he hard heard of it. But, read the article on mookas were the picture on page 2 came from. A member of Kukkiwon said the samething that I was told by the kukkiwon six months ago. The price for USAT dan certificate was $25.00 but is now the same price as Kukkiwon, which leads me to believe that they are in the process of discontinueing thier dan program. The ETU has done the same in regards to their dan program. Why pay for second best if you can get the best for the same price!
dortiz
Black Belt
Cool... I may end up with a collectors item : )
P.S. Congrats James. Sounds like you did well.
P.S. Congrats James. Sounds like you did well.
taekwondodo
Green Belt
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I didn't think the test were easy. I've been learning these forms, from Pyonwon and up since last July and it was not that easy.
Up until when I practiced with the testers, I was unsure what form goes to 5th dan and 6th dan. But after practicing from 9 AM to 10 PM at night for 2 nights, I am more confident of each forms now.
If the testers weren't familiar with the forms and wanted to skip dan test, then it would be over their head. Master Park stated that if any one don't feel confident to test, then they should not be testing. He repeated many times in the two days.
I was practicing with them because I am preparing myself for the Competitive Poomsae at National in Austin.
Up until when I practiced with the testers, I was unsure what form goes to 5th dan and 6th dan. But after practicing from 9 AM to 10 PM at night for 2 nights, I am more confident of each forms now.
If the testers weren't familiar with the forms and wanted to skip dan test, then it would be over their head. Master Park stated that if any one don't feel confident to test, then they should not be testing. He repeated many times in the two days.
I was practicing with them because I am preparing myself for the Competitive Poomsae at National in Austin.
MasterWright
Purple Belt
I just want to point out that the Skip Dan promotion was only available to U.S. residents.
Terry, I don't meant to take attention away from the original thread but I have a burning question in my mind.
So...how might this affect the quality of Taekwondo in the U.S.
Terry, I don't meant to take attention away from the original thread but I have a burning question in my mind.
So...how might this affect the quality of Taekwondo in the U.S.
I didn't think the test were easy. I've been learning these forms, from Pyonwon and up since last July and it was not that easy.
Up until when I practiced with the testers, I was unsure what form goes to 5th dan and 6th dan. But after practicing from 9 AM to 10 PM at night for 2 nights, I am more confident of each forms now.
If the testers weren't familiar with the forms and wanted to skip dan test, then it would be over their head. Master Park stated that if any one don't feel confident to test, then they should not be testing. He repeated many times in the two days.
I was practicing with them because I am preparing myself for the Competitive Poomsae at National in Austin.
So you tested at this event, correct? When do/did you find out if you passed? If testers don't find out if they passed until later (by mail or something) than no one can really say whether or not this experiment of a skip dan test was good or bad, yet. If it "looked" as if 1/2 of the people didn't look good, then the bystanders won't ever know how the group actually scored. Maybe half of the testers failed. We won't know for sure.
Laurentkd
Master Black Belt
I can't believe dan holders would even show up if they didn't know all the color belt forms... wouldn't that be an obvious requirement?
Does that blow anyone else away?
dortiz
Black Belt
"I can't believe dan holders would even show up if they didn't know all the color belt forms... wouldn't that be an obvious requirement?
Does that blow anyone else away? "
I have to agree. Maybe I am lucky that I was always taught to start with our basic 3 forms and then go through all 8 before then doing the Black Belts forms in oder as well. Even twice a month on busy months keeps you fresh but cmon!
Dave O.
Does that blow anyone else away? "
I have to agree. Maybe I am lucky that I was always taught to start with our basic 3 forms and then go through all 8 before then doing the Black Belts forms in oder as well. Even twice a month on busy months keeps you fresh but cmon!
Dave O.
Showing & not knowing how important the forms are to the testing board is one thing, but once you know that, continuing to test even though you don't know the forms is quite another.
I'll take Master Park's word that "if you don't know the forms, you won't pass." If I didn't know them, I wouldn't expect that I could pass the test. I hope that is a lesson to anyone who that they'd just slide by on this test.
I'll take Master Park's word that "if you don't know the forms, you won't pass." If I didn't know them, I wouldn't expect that I could pass the test. I hope that is a lesson to anyone who that they'd just slide by on this test.
wade
Black Belt
I'm also surprised that people showed up not ready to test. One BB that I know personally, and he wasn't the only one, showed up with no sparring gear. The look on their faces when they were told to strap up was priceless, and the Kukkiwon testers were not giving them time to go buy or borrow gear. It was "right here right now".
I was the first and only one tested last year and I bought everything, including wood for my breaking. I even bought a sparring partner just in case. They started me in a horse stance doing punches, then I did all my kicks, remember I'm 58 years old going for 7th Dan, you would think I know basic technique. After watching some of the people at this last test I now understand why they did it. Some were great but a lot were, to be honest, really sucky. By the time I was done with the basics, Non stop self defense against empty hands and weapons, all my forms starting at Tae Guk #1 up to Chong Won, some more than once, being stopped in the middle of them to explain what I was doing and why, then doing my breaking and my sparring my wife thought I was going to have a heart attack. BUT! I had been training for this since the Nationals in back in July when they said I could test. I even spent the last 7 months training with a member of the USAT's Poomsae team to make sure all my forms were correct. By the time I did my interview, 3 1/2 hours later, I was really ready to be done.
So, like I said, I can't understand why anyone would show up at a test like this unprepared. There is no excuse and they have no sympathy from me.
I was the first and only one tested last year and I bought everything, including wood for my breaking. I even bought a sparring partner just in case. They started me in a horse stance doing punches, then I did all my kicks, remember I'm 58 years old going for 7th Dan, you would think I know basic technique. After watching some of the people at this last test I now understand why they did it. Some were great but a lot were, to be honest, really sucky. By the time I was done with the basics, Non stop self defense against empty hands and weapons, all my forms starting at Tae Guk #1 up to Chong Won, some more than once, being stopped in the middle of them to explain what I was doing and why, then doing my breaking and my sparring my wife thought I was going to have a heart attack. BUT! I had been training for this since the Nationals in back in July when they said I could test. I even spent the last 7 months training with a member of the USAT's Poomsae team to make sure all my forms were correct. By the time I did my interview, 3 1/2 hours later, I was really ready to be done.
So, like I said, I can't understand why anyone would show up at a test like this unprepared. There is no excuse and they have no sympathy from me.
I read Wade's words & it restores my faith in the folks on testing boards at big events like this. If you're gonna test, be prepared!
There is a walk of shame for folks who aren't prepared.:mst:
There is a walk of shame for folks who aren't prepared.:mst:
dancingalone
Grandmaster
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I'm glad to hear the standards for the special test were high. High rank should be a privilege and not something you accrue just due to time. Shame to those who just showed up without preparation and embarrassed themselves and their art.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #56
To me it simply says pay your money and get promoted. But you know what do I really care no, I know I know my stuff and beyond so to all of those that do not Bless them and there students.
I understand your concern, Terry. But the reports above are saying that that isn't the case here. If folks weren't prepared they weren't passing.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #58
All I can say is I personally know person that skip Dan from 2nd to 7th and he barely knew his stuff and passed. Like he said the time in and what he can bring in the way of student allowed him to pass. For all of those that saw something different great, I can only repeat what I was told by people I trust. Sure there was some great instructors that work hard for there rank but there was those that slipped though the cracks and that is my concern because know they can bring more under deserving student into the mix because they can issue rank from now on.
wade
Black Belt
Well Terry, I'm glad that there are people out there that you can trust but, and it's a small "but", since no has yet been told whether they passed or not IMHO I would start to question your friend's information. Is it fact or is it what they feel about what happened.
There is quite a bit of difference. I do know that some of the testees who were caught short are very bitter about how they got "screwed" and are passing out tales, hear say, innuendos, rumors and what ever to say why they didn't pass and some one else did. My personal favorite and this is a quote "the kukkiwon is nothing but a clearing house for certificates, I get to do my real test this June in my own school where it really counts". If it wasn't important then I wonder why he even paid his money and showed up? He also didn't know all his forms and had no sparring gear either. Ah, ain't life grand? Oh, on that note, his own instructor also tried to do a skip dan but was turned down. So now we have two unhappy people who are going to be telling the world how the KKW screwed them. Sigh...
To even process a 1st Dan KKW takes a minimum 30 days. To grade and process this many certificates I would think you might like to add maybe a day or two to that time line. Just in case. My Kukkiwon certificate wasn't issued until 20 Sep. 2008, 7 months after I tested and remember, it was only me, no one else. Now multiply that by a couple of hundred more people testing and well, I think you get the picture.
I really wish you would have been there at the testing, I really do. Maybe next time, eh? Austin maybe? I will be there and would be happy to sit on your testing board as a personal favor to make sure everything is done right and no one gets by with anything they shouldn't. Besides, I would really like to see your test, I have no doubt it will be impressive to say the least. No thanks are needed, it would be my pleasure.
This is a personal question and you don't need to answer and no, I am not messing with you, but I am curious. If KKW certification is not important to you other than so your son can compete, then why, and I mean no disrespect, do you want to go up in KKW rank. You are already a KKW 4th Dan so to me that would seem like over kill considering how much you seem to hate the KKW.
There is quite a bit of difference. I do know that some of the testees who were caught short are very bitter about how they got "screwed" and are passing out tales, hear say, innuendos, rumors and what ever to say why they didn't pass and some one else did. My personal favorite and this is a quote "the kukkiwon is nothing but a clearing house for certificates, I get to do my real test this June in my own school where it really counts". If it wasn't important then I wonder why he even paid his money and showed up? He also didn't know all his forms and had no sparring gear either. Ah, ain't life grand? Oh, on that note, his own instructor also tried to do a skip dan but was turned down. So now we have two unhappy people who are going to be telling the world how the KKW screwed them. Sigh...
To even process a 1st Dan KKW takes a minimum 30 days. To grade and process this many certificates I would think you might like to add maybe a day or two to that time line. Just in case. My Kukkiwon certificate wasn't issued until 20 Sep. 2008, 7 months after I tested and remember, it was only me, no one else. Now multiply that by a couple of hundred more people testing and well, I think you get the picture.
I really wish you would have been there at the testing, I really do. Maybe next time, eh? Austin maybe? I will be there and would be happy to sit on your testing board as a personal favor to make sure everything is done right and no one gets by with anything they shouldn't. Besides, I would really like to see your test, I have no doubt it will be impressive to say the least. No thanks are needed, it would be my pleasure.
This is a personal question and you don't need to answer and no, I am not messing with you, but I am curious. If KKW certification is not important to you other than so your son can compete, then why, and I mean no disrespect, do you want to go up in KKW rank. You are already a KKW 4th Dan so to me that would seem like over kill considering how much you seem to hate the KKW.
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #60
Wade I do not hate the KKW in fact I am one of the loyal supporter of them, what I do not like is what is being said by people, look on TKD.net and what they have to say. I am pleased to say and tell everyon ethat I am KKW certified person and have taken the KKW Instructor as well. I only post what I have been told and you are right no one will get there certificates until down the road but I was told individuals was told whether they passed or not. I am sending you a PM for your eyes only. I do hope you understand my take on this and the info I get. I am sure that those folks that did train and did do everything right will understand that I am not bashing but just giving out info. that I was told. Wade I trust and believe you more so than most others so I will just report what is said and let you counter fight it. I hope I have not offended you in anyway or any other instructor that was there, it is not my intention at all.:asian:
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