US warns Ottawa of pending WikiLeaks release

[Bob Hubbard]

This whole release translates really to "You may see some documents where we called you names, and said less than nice things about you, your military, and your pet beaver. We didn't mean any of it, we still really love you, now be nice and bend over a bit more for us."

 

[Bruno@MT]

This whole release translates really to "You may see some documents where we called you names, and said less than nice things about you, your military, and your pet beaver. We didn't mean any of it, we still really love you, now be nice and bend over a bit more for us."

+1.

It's not that the US has no love for its allies.
It's just that it is the 'bend over and grab you ankles' kind of love

In the case of Iran, their previous government (I am counting the last ones as 1) was democratically elected. Too bad for them that they were too friendly to the Russians and the CIA wouldn't stand for it. So they toppled that government and supported the crew who'd eventually be the fundamentalist whackjobs that hold the office now.
Iraq has a similar story.

Several middle eastern countries were progressive in the 50s, with women having right to an education and a job. These days, women only have a right to be stoned to death if they are raped. Somehow, I think it would have been better if those countries had been left alone.
Better for the US too. Because those countries now have no shortage of people who (think they have) an axe to grind with the US, and they are now easily recruited by a couple of people in the background.

 

[LawDog]

Every time the USA gets into trouble or has a disaster the rest of the world just sits back and offers little to nothing or just laughs.
When they get into trouble and US aid doesn't arrive on time then we are A.H.s
Our country,(USA), especially the C.I.A., isn't perfect however this country is one of the most giving countries on this planet. It has always been the people of this country who have pushed our government into being so generious.
How many of those USA bangers out there have had your country come over and help the USA during all of her times of crisis.
Most of my relatives either live or have come down from Canada. Everytime I go up there to visit all I hear is USA bashing. Close the borders both North and South
The "only" friends that the US really has are ourselves and England. All of the rest are fair weather friends.
Sorry for being off track.

 

[Scott T]

Every time the USA gets into trouble or has a disaster the rest of the world just sits back and offers little to nothing or just laughs.
When they get into trouble and US aid doesn't arrive on time then we are A.H.s
Our country,(USA), especially the C.I.A., isn't perfect however this country is one of the most giving countries on this planet. It has always been the people of this country who have pushed our government into being so generious.
How many of those USA bangers out there have had your country come over and help the USA during all of her times of crisis.
Most of my relatives either live or have come down from Canada. Everytime I go up there to visit all I hear is USA bashing. Close the borders both North and South
The "only" friends that the US really has are ourselves and England. All of the rest are fair weather friends.
Sorry for being off track.

Yeah, we Canadians were partying it up and laughing ourselves stupid as our Navy was sent down to Louisiana to clear waterways and deliver relief supplies such as food and medicines, and I'm sure our medical personell were laughing up their sleeves as they worked on the people who were injured by Katrina.

Or Canadian firefighter personell who volunteered to go to to the WTC in the aftermath of 9/11 to support recovery efforts immediately after the attacks.

or The Canadians who -- on their own initiative -- gave travellers beds and meals after all of the US flights were rerouted to Canada while American skies were closed after 9/11

Yup, we just love to laugh at your misfortunes.

See, it's the unjustified 'Oh, woe is me, I'm all alone' attitude that you just displayed here that has a tendency to piss people off and make you an easy target.

 

[Bruno@MT]

Every time the USA gets into trouble or has a disaster the rest of the world just sits back and offers little to nothing or just laughs.

That is a patent lie.
You had support from virtually every nation on the planet when you invaded Afghanistan, didn't you? Because we knew that you had a legit cause.
The reason why we didn't join you for Iraq was because we had serious doubts about the whole thing, and the US would not show us the information we asked for.
And looking at it with hindsight, we made the right call because there wasn't any.

Oh and remember when that oil platform blew up some time ago, with the well leaking milliones of barrels of crude oil in the sea?
Many European countries immediately made offers to help, only to be rejected.
Contrary to what you might think, we do offer help when it is warranted, in peace and in war.
But not if all we are told is 'Yours is not to reason why, yours is just to do and die'

When they get into trouble and US aid doesn't arrive on time then we are A.H.s
Our country,(USA), especially the C.I.A., isn't perfect however this country is one of the most giving countries on this planet. It has always been the people of this country who have pushed our government into being so generious.

Nope. You just have a large army and the US needs justification for keeping them around.
The CIA gave Iran their current fundies.
The CIA gave Iraq Saddam Hussein.
The CIA gave Saddam Hussein his initial cache of WMD.
The CIA abducted foreigners in other countries without any legal justification.
And now that yuou have gotten rid of the dictator that was installed by the US, the entire country has turned in a battle field of civil war, and the civilian death tool is worse than ever did.

The US has done good too, aye. But let's not pretend that the US is doing it out of goodwill. It does it just to further their own interest. The UK went to war in Iraq. and their previous PM is getting nothing but flak for that. Because it has been shown that there was no cause for going to war. But Blair bent over when Bush asked him to.

 

[billc]

Thanks, Lawdog. From what I have heard, the guy before the Shah was a soviet stooge, so once again the shah was the less worse situation. Had Carter not allowed the Shah to fall, one, the fundamentalists would not be spreading terrorism around the globe, and the would not be on the verge of getting a nuclear weapon. Islamic extremists with nuclear weapons with a will to kill everyone in israel, as well as sell it to islamic extremists to explode dirty bombs wherever they can. So yeah, The shah was horrible, but with the U.S. there is always the possibility that with time the Iranian government would have slowly changed. That would not have happened with the soviets stooge, or now with the Islamic fundamentalists that Carter allowed to take power by pulling support away from the shah. I hate thug dictators. But the thugs in power now are worse than the thug that was in power then. The reason that ships were not allowed to help with the clean up is because Obama wants to shut down domestic offshore oil drilling. It suited his purposes to allow the spill to get wores. Right now he is using his agencies to do more environmental impact studies to keep people from drilling. It may be six more months before the next one is finished.

 

[Scott T]

Thanks, Lawdog. From what I have heard, the guy before the Shah was a soviet stooge, so once again the shah was the less worse situation. Had Carter not allowed the Shah to fall, one, the fundamentalists would not be spreading terrorism around the globe, and the would not be on the verge of getting a nuclear weapon. Islamic extremists with nuclear weapons with a will to kill everyone in israel, as well as sell it to islamic extremists to explode dirty bombs wherever they can. So yeah, The shah was horrible, but with the U.S. there is always the possibility that with time the Iranian government would have slowly changed. That would not have happened with the soviets stooge, or now with the Islamic fundamentalists that Carter allowed to take power by pulling support away from the shah. I hate thug dictators. But the thugs in power now are worse than the thug that was in power then. The reason that ships were not allowed to help with the clean up is because Obama wants to shut down domestic offshore oil drilling. It suited his purposes to allow the spill to get wores. Right now he is using his agencies to do more environmental impact studies to keep people from drilling. It may be six more months before the next one is finished.

Being pro-West does not excuse the Shah and his CIA-trained SAVAK scum whose actions against the civilian population would have made Stalin and Saddam green with envy.

The Shah should have had the same ultimate fate as Saddam. God knows he deserved it just as much if not more, for his crimes against his own people.

 

[billc]

Unfortunately, when you are fighting a great evil, like the Soviet Union, it is not always an option to pick pure as the wind driven snow allies. For example, Stalin was a man who murdered around 25 million people and he was one of our allies in WW2 against the then rampaging threats from the socialists in Japan, Germany and Italy. After the shooting war of ww2 we had to deal with an aggresive socialist threat in the Soviet Union. Life isn't nice, its not fun and it forces hard choices at times when there is no way to see things clearly or easily. The threat of Islamic terrorism was made worse by the fall of the shah. Iran is supporting the terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan, which is making harder for those countries to move forward. Iran also supports the terrorissts attaacking Israel and they are trying real hard to get that nuclear weapon. Does anyone doubt that they will use is against Israel? Achmadinajad has said they would. Do you doubt him? Is that a chance the world should take?

 

[Scott T]

Unfortunately, when you are fighting a great evil, like the Soviet Union, it is not always an option to pick pure as the wind driven snow allies. For example, Stalin was a man who murdered around 25 million people and he was one of our allies in WW2 against the then rampaging threats from the socialists in Japan, Germany and Italy. After the shooting war of ww2 we had to deal with an aggresive socialist threat in the Soviet Union. Life isn't nice, its not fun and it forces hard choices at times when there is no way to see things clearly or easily. The threat of Islamic terrorism was made worse by the fall of the shah. Iran is supporting the terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan, which is making harder for those countries to move forward. Iran also supports the terrorissts attaacking Israel and they are trying real hard to get that nuclear weapon. Does anyone doubt that they will use is against Israel? Achmadinajad has said they would. Do you doubt him? Is that a chance the world should take?

I've always been of the belief that you're only as good as those you jump in to bed with. When the west -- and the US in particular -- supported Pahlavi, turning a blind eye to all of his excesses, we were no better than him and no better than the Soviets. The only real difference is that while we only rarely disappear someone, we supported those that did it on a regular basis.

 

[billc]

So, if you were Roosevelt, and Churchhill, and the Canadian Prime Minister of ww2, you would have said, "No, we will not supply the soviet union, we will give them no aid, Stalin is a monster and we cannot get into bed with him?" As one of my favorite Talk show hosts Dennis Prager always says, Better Clarity over agreement.

 

[Scott T]

So, if you were Roosevelt, and Churchhill, and the Canadian Prime Minister of ww2, you would have said, "No, we will not supply the soviet union, we will give them no aid, Stalin is a monster and we cannot get into bed with him?" As one of my favorite Talk show hosts Dennis Prager always says, Better Clarity over agreement.

If we wanted to maintain the illusion that we're better than them, yeah. And FYI, the Canadian PM of the time was MacKenzie King.

Granted that would have marginally reduced the USSR's fighting strength in any given battle(lend-lease aircraft comprised 18% of the Soviet Air Force, but they were spread thin) but as Stalingrad proved, the Nazi's would still have been slowed down.

 

[billc]

So, to be clear, you would not have allied with stalin during world war 2?

 

[Scott T]

So, to be clear, you would not have allied with stalin during world war 2?

If I were transplanted from 2010 to 1941, with modern sensibilities intact, and if I knew about instances such as the intentional famine in Ukraine, you're damned right that I wouldn't send him anything. All materiels would have been sent to the UK.

 

[Ken Morgan]

What was Churchill’s quote? “Had Hitler invaded Hell, I would have something good to say about the Devil”. You find allies where ever you may, especially in a battle to the death.

Don’t be so naïve the allies knew what a bastard Stalin was, they may not have known the extent, but they knew. Their view was to keep Germany occupied on two fronts, three if you include Italy, and that meant supplying the USSR.

I was trying to stay out of this but I’m so ****ing tired of this holier then now attitude that has been in this country ever since Trudeau in regards to the US. Every nation-state thinks it is superior to ever other one. Problem is they don’t build themselves up with their own accomplishments; they knock others down based on some bad choices the other guy made. It scores massive political points everywhere in the world to be seen thumping your chest and bad talking the US, or any other country that is pissing you off at that moment. Hell they do the same thing in the States to they bad mouth us to score political points.

Introduction to International relations, second year university, countries look after their self interest first.

FYI, we're no better then anyone else.

 

[Scott T]

What was Churchill’s quote? “Had Hitler invaded Hell, I would have something good to say about the Devil”. You find allies where ever you may, especially in a battle to the death.

Don’t be so naïve the allies knew what a bastard Stalin was, they may not have known the extent, but they knew. Their view was to keep Germany occupied on two fronts, three if you include Italy, and that meant supplying the USSR.

I was trying to stay out of this but I’m so ****ing tired of this holier then now attitude that has been in this country ever since Trudeau in regards to the US. Every nation-state thinks it is superior to ever other one. Problem is they don’t build themselves up with their own accomplishments; they knock others down based on some bad choices the other guy made. It scores massive political points everywhere in the world to be seen thumping your chest and bad talking the US, or any other country that is pissing you off at that moment. Hell they do the same thing in the States to they bad mouth us to score political points.

Introduction to International relations, second year university, countries look after their self interest first.

FYI, we're no better then anyone else.

This may surprise you, but I agree with everything you just said.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Can I just ask, as an aside, why we'd send anything to Ottawa. Isn't Toronto the capital of Canada? I mean, I saw that John Candy film "Canadian Bacon" and it was there...and JC would be wrong, right?

 

[Ken Morgan]

Can I just ask, as an aside, why we'd send anything to Ottawa. Isn't Toronto the capital of Canada? I mean, I saw that John Candy film "Canadian Bacon" and it was there...and JC would be wrong, right?

You're somewhat mistaken Bob, Toronto is the centre of the known universe.....

 

[billc]

At pajamasmedia.com Claudia Rossette has a column that discusses Jimmy Carter's trouble making through the years, in light of his need to chime in on the North Korean situation.

 

[LawDog]

Don't call me a liar again.
I was not referring to the war. I did say and have said that the CIA has alot of internal problems and does cause alot of trouble, so what is the issue there? Why don't you bring up the other countrys who have their own style CIA. Do they not do the same thing as our CIA. Do they not cause down the road issues like our clowns do? Does not your own country have it's own CIA type branch? And they do what?
The oil spill, ok, who was left in charge?, well it really wasn't the US government, it was left to the oil industry to clean it up. I personally didn't hear about to many offers and if there were then that was my error.
One thing that you have over looked and that was the time from that my post was covering. This time frame was from the 50's untill now. As far as the Canadian Navy helping out, well you do have me there, the news in my area never, to my knowledge, stated that.
And if you guys don't like my view on things to bad. Like I said before I "used" to travel up to Canada to visit relatives but stopped doing so because I got tied of the "Yank" comments and bashing.
Your posts are just showing how much you resent the USA and I resent to steady "Yank" bashing. It is pretty bad that one who's of Canadian lineage has to stop visiting is family's homeland.
This is the last time I will post on this subject, if you guys want to keep it up then go for it.

 

[Scott T]

Don't call me a liar again.
I was not referring to the war. I will stand by what I said.

Ok, how about deluded, or maybe suffering from self-percieved victimisation?

And the non-war points that were made? Or are you going to ignore them because they don't fit into your world-view.

I don't know you, so I am curious.