US Department of Education: Provide sports equality

[ballen0351]

CC you miss my point. There's people saying that the disabled won't be allowed to do the sports others do full stop and then it's explained that they can't do this sport because the students who do have to win in order to be able to go to college.
I'm talking about reasonable adjustments being made so that the disabled can do a sport, like wheelchair rugby/basketball both of which are played with able bodied as well, that sports ( and I did say this) are found that the able and the disabled can play together but it seems this isn't going to be a solution because your students aren't playing sport for the sports sake but to win games/competitions etc for the schools. There is always room for those to excel at sports but that's what specialist athletic clubs etc are for to bring the talented on. School sports are for the education and physical training of all pupils regardless of ability, it's to help the children's fitness and well being, with the physical training classes being in the school time, outside school time is the time for the talented athletes to train and compete.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Education/Schools/HLivi/PE

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120523114728.htm

Physical education in schools should be just that not a time for those who excel at a sport to edge out those who aren't. We want our children to be as physically fit and healthy as they can be so physical education in schools is important in setting down life patterns. Sports teams are extra curricular where those who excel can receive the coaching they need, in school - sports should be for everyone.

Your not understand that wheel chair rugby or basketball won't work at the high school lvl. There's just not enough kids to make teams and if there was schools couldn't afford to start it. There are schools here that are cutting art and music classes and can't even afford books for the kids how can they now be forced to provide a new sport when they are cutting spirits we already have?

Were also not talking about gym class in school these are after school sports

 

[Tez3]

The answer is very simple, during the school day the physical education classes are for everyone, out of school if the school chooses to have school teams they don't have anything to do with those classes. Those teams should be voluntary and nothing to do with educational authorities, if the teachers are willing to coach out of their work hours. Mixing competing teams with school phys. ed. classes is unfair and negates the whole point of having pys. ed. in schools.
In my daughters year at school there was a girl who was an Olympic swimmer, during school time she took PE with the others even when it went to the swimming pool, out of school hours she did her training as one had nothing to do with the other. Many a talented athlete/sports person has been spotted at school here but the school isn't responsible fo their training, they are guided towards coaches who train out of school hours.
In school hours games, sports and PE should be suitable for everyone, there's many different ways to help children towards fitness none of which will harm a child who is talented in one sport.

 

[Tez3]

Your not understand that wheel chair rugby or basketball won't work at the high school lvl. There's just not enough kids to make teams and if there was schools couldn't afford to start it. There are schools here that are cutting art and music classes and can't even afford books for the kids how can they now be forced to provide a new sport when they are cutting spirits we already have?

Again you miss the point, in wheelchair rugby a good many able bodied players can play and do but as I said you missed the point. It was just an example. My point is that the means should be found for the physical education classes to be inclusive of everyone in the school not be used just to promote those that can win games/competitions to make the school look good.
What is the point of PE classes in school, is it to teach children how to be fit or is it to promote certain sports? there's a heck of a lot of things that can be done in a PE class that cost very little, disabled volleyball and be played by everyone, all you need is a net. A lot of non sporty able bodied children enjoy this. There is little need to have new sports, in fact one doesn't need sports at all in PE. Most school here don't have sports as their main PE class, there's a lot to do in a class without sports.
By concentrating on the elite in the PE lessons so many children not just the disabled are missing out on learning that fitness can be fun as well as vital for wellbeing. The elite athletes will always have somewhere to train, let the non elite children have the lessons they need in the school PE.

 

[Tez3]

Are your schools just sports orientated them? Our schools at equivalant age to your high school have zumba, weights, boxercise, circuits, street dance and all that type of stuff in their school PE classes. All these can be adapted to suit everyone in the class. Many of the children do their individaul sports etc outside school which of includes martial arts.

 

[ballen0351]

Again you miss the point, in wheelchair rugby a good many able bodied players can play and do but as I said you missed the point. It was just an example. My point is that the means should be found for the physical education classes to be inclusive of everyone in the school not be used just to promote those that can win games/competitions to make the school look good.
What is the point of PE classes in school, is it to teach children how to be fit or is it to promote certain sports? there's a heck of a lot of things that can be done in a PE class that cost very little, disabled volleyball and be played by everyone, all you need is a net. A lot of non sporty able bodied children enjoy this. There is little need to have new sports, in fact one doesn't need sports at all in PE. Most school here don't have sports as their main PE class, there's a lot to do in a class without sports.
By concentrating on the elite in the PE lessons so many children not just the disabled are missing out on learning that fitness can be fun as well as vital for wellbeing. The elite athletes will always have somewhere to train, let the non elite children have the lessons they need in the school PE.

This law is not addressing gym class its addressing after school sport programs like varsity football

 

[ballen0351]

Are your schools just sports orientated them? Our schools at equivalant age to your high school have zumba, weights, boxercise, circuits, street dance and all that type of stuff in their school PE classes. All these can be adapted to suit everyone in the class. Many of the children do their individaul sports etc outside school which of includes martial arts.

Alot of high schools at least where I live dont even have gym anymore.

 

[Tez3]

This law is not addressing gym class its addressing after school sport programs like varsity football

Then it's not to do with education is it? After school is just that... after school. Schools are places of education not to train athletes/sports people. The money that it's spending on 'after school' activities should be spent on the schools, buying books is more important than team sports to children in education. After school activities should be funded by whatever sports authority is responsible for those particular sports. I'm not saying sports aren't important but in it's place not in school especially if you are having problems with the budget. Physical education is very important and the school money should be spent on that not team sports for the minority.

 

[celtic_crippler]

There are those who excel at Varsity Football. There are those that excel on the Debate Team. There are those that excel at ROTC. There are those that excel in Chess Club. There are those who execl in the Marching Band. There are those that excel at Cheer Leading. There are those that excel in the Flag Corps. There are those that excel in Chorus.

Very few excel in everything.

I was interested in Chorus at one point. Believe me, the last thing you want to support is forcing them to allow me to sing.

Find what you're good at, and stick to that.

I also wanted to be a super hero when I was around 7 or 8 but just because I put a cape on doesn't mean I could be one. LOL My mother had to have a heart-to-heart with me and explain why it wasn't possible. So I did the next best thing and instead of trying to be Superman, I enrolled in martial arts and tried to be more like another hero of mine.... Bruce Lee.

It is the parent's responsibility to guide their child and that includes helping them to realize their strengths and foster them, as well as recognizing limitations. There's several ways to help foster self-esteem without being unrealistic.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Afterthought:

I'd actually say that fostering false expectations is more damaging to self-esteem in the long run than not allowing someone to play a sport.

 

[Tez3]

There are those who excel at Varsity Football. There are those that excel on the Debate Team. There are those that excel at ROTC. There are those that excel in Chess Club. There are those who execl in the Marching Band. There are those that excel at Cheer Leading. There are those that excel in the Flag Corps. There are those that excel in Chorus.

Very few excel in everything.

I was interested in Chorus at one point. Believe me, the last thing you want to support is forcing them to allow me to sing.

Find what you're good at, and stick to that.

I also wanted to be a super hero when I was around 7 or 8 but just because I put a cape on doesn't mean I could be one. LOL My mother had to have a heart-to-heart with me and explain why it wasn't possible. So I did the next best thing and instead of trying to be Superman, I enrolled in martial arts and tried to be more like another hero of mine.... Bruce Lee.

It is the parent's responsibility to guide their child and that includes helping them to realize their strengths and foster them, as well as recognizing limitations. There's several ways to help foster self-esteem without being unrealistic.

All these however are out of school activities, why do they come under the schools banner? Schools are there to teach the academic subjects not to train athletes, there's very good clubs and coaches available for that, we have football and cricket academies that work with children outside of school hours, there's gymnastic clubs, swimming clubs etc etc all for actitivies outside school. Surely on a limited budget your schools should be leaving this coaching to waht are the professionals and spending the money on books and facilities for the pupils to learn properly.
It is the parent's responsibility to ensure their child doesn't have 'self esteem issues' and grows up well rounded, schools job is to teach them the academic studies along with having a pracitical for every pupil physical education classes ( not a 'gym class' but proper physical education) all other activities are nothing to do with schools. As far as disabled pupils are concerned the schools should have to enable them to study and do appropriate phys. ed. the rest is up to the parents to sort.

 

[ballen0351]

All these however are out of school activities, why do they come under the schools banner? Schools are there to teach the academic subjects not to train athletes, there's very good clubs and coaches available for that, we have football and cricket academies that work with children outside of school hours, there's gymnastic clubs, swimming clubs etc etc all for actitivies outside school. Surely on a limited budget your schools should be leaving this coaching to waht are the professionals and spending the money on books and facilities for the pupils to learn properly.
It is the parent's responsibility to ensure their child doesn't have 'self esteem issues' and grows up well rounded, schools job is to teach them the academic studies along with having a pracitical for every pupil physical education classes ( not a 'gym class' but proper physical education) all other activities are nothing to do with schools. As far as disabled pupils are concerned the schools should have to enable them to study and do appropriate phys. ed. the rest is up to the parents to sort.

Just the way it works here extra curricular high school sports have been around for 100 years or more. I remember seeing pictures of my grandfather in the 30's in his football uniform. I played football and baseball all thru high school. Keeps kids out of trouble and gives some kids a chance at higher education.

 

[celtic_crippler]

All these however are out of school activities, why do they come under the schools banner? Schools are there to teach the academic subjects not to train athletes, there's very good clubs and coaches available for that, we have football and cricket academies that work with children outside of school hours, there's gymnastic clubs, swimming clubs etc etc all for actitivies outside school. Surely on a limited budget your schools should be leaving this coaching to waht are the professionals and spending the money on books and facilities for the pupils to learn properly.
It is the parent's responsibility to ensure their child doesn't have 'self esteem issues' and grows up well rounded, schools job is to teach them the academic studies along with having a pracitical for every pupil physical education classes ( not a 'gym class' but proper physical education) all other activities are nothing to do with schools. As far as disabled pupils are concerned the schools should have to enable them to study and do appropriate phys. ed. the rest is up to the parents to sort.

Most communities have school related sports, church supported sport programs, or other community based sport programs. I guess Americans just like having options?

I'd have to research the actual reasoning... I've never actually wondered about it before it's just always been that way as far as I know. It didn't used to be an issue as most people simply accepted that everyone was different. I would attribute that mind set to a society that values the individual. I can only postulate that it's recently become an issue as our culture seems to be getting further and further away from that philosophy and has begun embracing one of a more socialistic view.

 

[Tez3]

Most communities have school related sports, church supported sport programs, or other community based sport programs. I guess Americans just like having options?

I'd have to research the actual reasoning... I've never actually wondered about it before it's just always been that way as far as I know. It didn't used to be an issue as most people simply accepted that everyone was different. I would attribute that mind set to a society that values the individual. I can only postulate that it's recently become an issue as our culture seems to be getting further and further away from that philosophy and has begun embracing one of a more socialistic view.

If as ballen says it's been around for a hundred years or more you are hardly get more socialistic as all this community actitivy is a classic sign of socialism anyway! If your society valued individuals you'd have more for the disabled however the problem seems to have nothing to do with being socialist but from reading posts here from being next to skint. You are coming to a postition in your ecocomy where you can't have everything you had before so you are going to have to chose. can't afford books but can afford a sports team at the school? You chose which is more important.

 

[celtic_crippler]

If as ballen says it's been around for a hundred years or more you are hardly get more socialistic as all this community actitivy is a classic sign of socialism anyway! If your society valued individuals you'd have more for the disabled however the problem seems to have nothing to do with being socialist but from reading posts here from being next to skint. You are coming to a postition in your ecocomy where you can't have everything you had before so you are going to have to chose. can't afford books but can afford a sports team at the school? You chose which is more important.

You apprently define individualism differently. We don't see individualism as being all-inclusive, but instead appreciating the unique contributions, ability, and skills of each person separately.

The funds, at one time at least, were given voluntarily and not forced and mostly contributed at the local level. By allowing the government to step in and dictate how things are to be done (requiring sports to be all-inclusive) that puts a damper on many's desire to contribute further.

Not to say "we" aren't to blame, as "we" have allowed the government to intrude further and further into "our" business.

As a Libertarian, part of our platform has been to take back the schools. The Federal Government has been allowed to take funds in the form of taxes from our states and distribute them how they see fit to other states. As such, they see this as enabling them the authority to tell us locally what's best for us. Since their direct involvement beginning in the 1950's nothing in education... I reiterate, NOTHING, has improved. Quite the contrary actually and the numbers reflecting our standing internationally prove that.

Having them further flex their muscles and dictate other aspects of OUR educational system will likely result in further diminshment of the experience for our children based on their less-than-stellar track record.

 

[Tez3]

I don't think you know what I mean about individualism as I haven't talked about it. I doubt you even know what politics I support. I can tell you though I am neither a Socialist nor a Communist.
If you have community groups then that's socialist by it's proper meaning ie being social as in being a community, there's nothing in that that precludes individuality. Why do you think people have 'socials'? it's because it's a community event, I can't help it if Americans seen anything that has 'social' in it as being communist or even political.
Reading what others have written here, you seem to have a finacial problem if schools cannot afford books, proper equipment for a phys. ed. class etc so you do have some choices to make, whether that's sending your children to a fee paying school, voting differently or taking education authorities to court, I don't know.

 

[celtic_crippler]

I don't think you know what I mean about individualism as I haven't talked about it. I doubt you even know what politics I support. I can tell you though I am neither a Socialist nor a Communist.
If you have community groups then that's socialist by it's proper meaning ie being social as in being a community, there's nothing in that that precludes individuality. Why do you think people have 'socials'? it's because it's a community event, I can't help it if Americans seen anything that has 'social' in it as being communist or even political.
Reading what others have written here, you seem to have a finacial problem if schools cannot afford books, proper equipment for a phys. ed. class etc so you do have some choices to make, whether that's sending your children to a fee paying school, voting differently or taking education authorities to court, I don't know.

Why do you take on the role of the "victim" as if you're being attacked when someone doesn't agree with you? :idunno:

I haven't attacked you or called you any names. I've simply been patiently attempting to explain a piece of our culture to you.

And I would be 100% for "fee paying" schools. If you have the time, you may find the link below interesting and informative regarding schools in America (it's about 41 minutes):

 

[Tez3]

CC you badly need to reread what I've writen, I'm not in the least acting the victim nor does my post read like that. You make a comment about socialism and I'm pointing out that what you have been brainwashed to think about socialism and regard as that simply isn't, how is that acting like a victim?
Now granted we can't read each others expressions, body language or hear the tone of voice but even so I can't see how you consistantly manage to misread what I say. I haven't assumed I'm being attacked, I never see myself as a victim in anything. If however you chose to be antagonistic towards anything I post I can't help that it makes me laugh, sorry but there it is. I imagine what you see in my posts is what you think I post not actually what I post. There was no malice, no antagonism, no aggression in my post, I'm at a loss to know why you think that.
If you can't have a discussion on what education should be for children ( any children, in a discussion it doesn't matter whose children) then why do you post? You aren't educating me in the least, perhaps too much time spent on the sports field?

 

[celtic_crippler]

CC you badly need to reread what I've writen, I'm not in the least acting the victim nor does my post read like that. You make a comment about socialism and I'm pointing out that what you have been brainwashed to think about socialism and regard as that simply isn't, how is that acting like a victim?
Now granted we can't read each others expressions, body language or hear the tone of voice but even so I can't see how you consistantly manage to misread what I say. I haven't assumed I'm being attacked, I never see myself as a victim in anything. If however you chose to be antagonistic towards anything I post I can't help that it makes me laugh, sorry but there it is. I imagine what you see in my posts is what you think I post not actually what I post. There was no malice, no antagonism, no aggression in my post, I'm at a loss to know why you think that.
If you can't have a discussion on what education should be for children ( any children, in a discussion it doesn't matter whose children) then why do you post? You aren't educating me in the least, perhaps too much time spent on the sports field?

In the time it likely took you to put that together and post it you could have watched the clip and learned something, and then contributed somelthing useful to the thread instead.

Here it is again.

 

[Tez3]

In the time it likely took you to put that together and post it you could have watched the clip and learned something, and then contributed somelthing useful to the thread instead.

Here it is again.

why are you always so angry? and neg rep, really? Please don't misread what I say to fit in with what you mistakenly believe about me.

What makes you assume I haven't watched the clip btw?

 

[celtic_crippler]

why are you always so angry? and neg rep, really? Please don't misread what I say to fit in with what you mistakenly believe about me.

What makes you assume I haven't watched the clip btw?

It is obvious as you would have made a comment about it I'm sure, based on your history here.

And could you please try to stay on topic? Or do I have to give you another neg rep? :lfao: