Unbreakable combat cane and walking stick? Which one?

[chinto]

The cold steel city stick would probably be my first choice, although I do know at least one LEO who mentioned that he'd arrest anyone carrying a CS city stick.

Your best bet would probably be a rattan one. I'd probably buy one of the 54" staffs that the dog brothers sell, cut it to length, add a handle to it, oil it so it's stronger and heavier and then add some polypropylene to it so it looks like a nice walking cane. http://dogbrothers.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=29&products_id=119 If the sticks can last through them beating each other full force with them pretty regularly, it should last for most stuff you're going to do with it.

where do you live??? at least in the USA I know of NO state or CITY even that has attempted to outlaw any cane ( with the exception of a sword cane.. and that is for the sword in it. ) it would be a violation of the ADA act under federal law. also if you walk down the street with a cane you have committed NO CRIME, and the officer in question would be libel to arrest under Tittle 18 US code for abuse of authority and things. Now if you were striking some one with it.. that is a very Different matter.

 

[Buka]

The only advice I can offer - Never bring a cane to a crutch fight.

 

[Skpotamus]

where do you live??? at least in the USA I know of NO state or CITY even that has attempted to outlaw any cane ( with the exception of a sword cane.. and that is for the sword in it. ) it would be a violation of the ADA act under federal law. also if you walk down the street with a cane you have committed NO CRIME, and the officer in question would be libel to arrest under Tittle 18 US code for abuse of authority and things. Now if you were striking some one with it.. that is a very Different matter.

I live in Indiana. The particular area I live in is known for officersl, prosecutors and judges..... applying the law in "unique ways." I never said anything about it being illegal or against the law. I just said that a particular officer said he'd arrest someone for carrying a cold steel city stick when we were discussing them in training. The ADA act is really more of a civil recourse for discrimination, not something police enforce. It is designed to stop discrimination against people with disabilities in the workplace and with regards to public services and does so by defining what they can sue for. It does not give someone the right to carry a cane, but does give them the right to sue someone for not letting them use it. (their words, not mine and not agreed with by me). Pretty much the attitude was that if he saw a younger male carrying a city stick or other large stick without an obvious physical impairment, he'd arrest them for carrying a weapon. Whether or not they'd be charged with a crime was up to the prosecutor. Odds are, they wouldn't be charged, but they would be facing a night or two in jail and wouldn't get the stick back.

I've seen officers confiscate kubotans from peoples keychains before, even one officer who confiscated a roll of dimes from a student because they claimed they were a weapon, so it wouldn't surprise me to see one take a city stick from someone (especially if they were younger and carrying it instead of walking with it like a cane).

Would I still carry one? Absolutely, especially in an area where I couldn't carry my firearm or my spydercos. I'd also probably wrap up my ankle or knee to help with that annoying knee injury I received in class the day before and use it like a walking cane to try to not be stopped in case an officer noticed me with a city stick.


BTW, it is illegal for some people to carry certain types of canes (non sword canes), specifically, a non blind person using a white cane is illegal in some states, so there is a legal precedent for the outlawing and barring of canes to some people.

 

[Haakon]

I carry a cane-not all the time,and I don't need it to walk...yet..but I'm anticipating that if I live another 15 years it might be a help to me that way. I haven't needed to use it for self defense...yet, though my knee does trouble me enough to occasionally be glad to have the things. In the meantime, I do have a weapon that I'm trained to use, that is inoccuous and legal to carry, can be used in a non-lethal fashion,serves as another sort of tool when not as a weapon, and I can take pretty much everywhere, unlike my guns and knives.

I've been thinking about starting to practice with the cane for just that reason too. I don't need it now, but the way my knees feel I suspect it's only a matter of time. When the time comes I'll pick a pretty ordinary, generic, hickory cane, maybe from SDK I have one of their bokkens and was impressed so I'd expect the cane to be good too.

They have a shepards crook (basically a typical cane but 5 or 6 feet long), that might make an interesting weapon/walking stick/conversation starter.

 

[lklawson]

I've been thinking about starting to practice with the cane for just that reason too. I don't need it now, but the way my knees feel I suspect it's only a matter of time. When the time comes I'll pick a pretty ordinary, generic, hickory cane, maybe from SDK I have one of their bokkens and was impressed so I'd expect the cane to be good too.

The biggest problem with this plan is that 99% of all the cane systems I've ever seen (and I've looked at a lot) are predicated on the fact that YOU DON'T NEED A CANE TO STAND OR MOVE.

If you actually have a bum leg/foot/knee and can't walk without your cane, then the vast majority of cane systems out there simply won't work for you.

To date I've seen exactly one cane system which makes allowances for the bizarre idea that you're carrying a cane as an aid to ambulation instead of as an "under the radar" weapon or because you're pretentious. That system is Chas Clements' "Combat Cane for Cripples." Good luck finding it. Last I heard Chas was down and out with a severe case of neuropathy and the instructional vids he made of his cane system were all on VHS.

I've seen precisely one generic stick system which had any allowance that the fighter might have a bum leg and that was a Silat system where the progenitor of the style actually had a club-foot. No points for guessing that Chas spent some quality time in that system (he was primarily a DeThours guy until they had a falling out). I don't recall the name of the system off hand.

My advice: Go find Chas and see if he'll give you any tips - he lives in the Boulder area. Failing that try to find someone who has one of Chas' VHS tapes and can make a DVD for you. Failing that, learn a cane system that is super-basic and focus your energy on the fundamentals of it which require little to no movement (sorry Hapkido and Shuey guys). Then, after you've got the basics down well, spend a lot of time practicing with setups that screw up your movement. Here are some ideas (a few of which I've done, myself):

• stick a pebble in your shoe - it'll hurt to try to "walk" or even stand on that foot
• hobble your legs - no, really. Tie your ankles together with a short length of rope, may be two feet or so
• wear a medical leg brace that prevents your knee from bending
• strap one foot up - bend your knee all the way until your foot is touching the buttock. Use an old belt to strap it down.
• affix a 5lb weight on top of a helmet and wear that. The higher the better - it'll mess with your balance.

Now try to fight with your cane. Better hope there's a tree or a wall or something near by

Seriously. I'm a huge cane fan. I carry one all the time. But if you really need a cane to stand or walk, freaking NONE of the systems commonly available to you are worth diddly.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Haakon]

The biggest problem with this plan is that 99% of all the cane systems I've ever seen (and I've looked at a lot) are predicated on the fact that YOU DON'T NEED A CANE TO STAND OR MOVE.

Great point, and it is one I've considered - how do you use a cane for defense if you need it to stand up? So far I haven't put much thought, and no practice, into how to solve that sticky problem. Fortunately I do have a very skilled and talented teacher (not Chas) who will hopefully have some good ideas. He's studied a lot, it wouldn't surprise me if he had at least viewed the videos you're talking about at some time.

If you actually have a bum leg/foot/knee and can't walk without your cane, then the vast majority of cane systems out there simply won't work for you.

To date I've seen exactly one cane system which makes allowances for the bizarre idea that you're carrying a cane as an aid to ambulation instead of as an "under the radar" weapon or because you're pretentious. That system is Chas Clements' "Combat Cane for Cripples." Good luck finding it. Last I heard Chas was down and out with a severe case of neuropathy and the instructional vids he made of his cane system were all on VHS.

I've seen precisely one generic stick system which had any allowance that the fighter might have a bum leg and that was a Silat system where the progenitor of the style actually had a club-foot. No points for guessing that Chas spent some quality time in that system (he was primarily a DeThours guy until they had a falling out). I don't recall the name of the system off hand.

My advice: Go find Chas and see if he'll give you any tips - he lives in the Boulder area. Failing that try to find someone who has one of Chas' VHS tapes and can make a DVD for you. Failing that, learn a cane system that is super-basic and focus your energy on the fundamentals of it which require little to no movement (sorry Hapkido and Shuey guys). Then, after you've got the basics down well, spend a lot of time practicing with setups that screw up your movement. Here are some ideas (a few of which I've done, myself):

• stick a pebble in your shoe - it'll hurt to try to "walk" or even stand on that foot
• hobble your legs - no, really. Tie your ankles together with a short length of rope, may be two feet or so
• wear a medical leg brace that prevents your knee from bending
• strap one foot up - bend your knee all the way until your foot is touching the buttock. Use an old belt to strap it down.
• affix a 5lb weight on top of a helmet and wear that. The higher the better - it'll mess with your balance.

Now try to fight with your cane. Better hope there's a tree or a wall or something near by

Seriously. I'm a huge cane fan. I carry one all the time. But if you really need a cane to stand or walk, freaking NONE of the systems commonly available to you are worth diddly.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Great training ideas, I'll try to find a copy of those videos.

 

[chinto]

I live in Indiana. The particular area I live in is known for officersl, prosecutors and judges..... applying the law in "unique ways." I never said anything about it being illegal or against the law. I just said that a particular officer said he'd arrest someone for carrying a cold steel city stick when we were discussing them in training. The ADA act is really more of a civil recourse for discrimination, not something police enforce. It is designed to stop discrimination against people with disabilities in the workplace and with regards to public services and does so by defining what they can sue for. It does not give someone the right to carry a cane, but does give them the right to sue someone for not letting them use it. (their words, not mine and not agreed with by me). Pretty much the attitude was that if he saw a younger male carrying a city stick or other large stick without an obvious physical impairment, he'd arrest them for carrying a weapon. Whether or not they'd be charged with a crime was up to the prosecutor. Odds are, they wouldn't be charged, but they would be facing a night or two in jail and wouldn't get the stick back.

I've seen officers confiscate kubotans from peoples keychains before, even one officer who confiscated a roll of dimes from a student because they claimed they were a weapon, so it wouldn't surprise me to see one take a city stick from someone (especially if they were younger and carrying it instead of walking with it like a cane).

Would I still carry one? Absolutely, especially in an area where I couldn't carry my firearm or my spydercos. I'd also probably wrap up my ankle or knee to help with that annoying knee injury I received in class the day before and use it like a walking cane to try to not be stopped in case an officer noticed me with a city stick.


BTW, it is illegal for some people to carry certain types of canes (non sword canes), specifically, a non blind person using a white cane is illegal in some states, so there is a legal precedent for the outlawing and barring of canes to some people.

the white blind cane is a case of fraud if you are not blind. it has several rights added to it to protect the sightless in traffic and things.

I would if he took the walking stick go to a different agency and charge the officer with theft. ( yes boys and girls criminal charges. ) and if he arrested me for carrying it, I would make an arrest myself at the jail or police station under title 18.

Just because he has a badge and is an LEO does not make him able to brake the law. in the US we do have a problem with some police thinking that their badge and status as a sworn officer or what ever kind make them some how above the law, this is a real problem

 

[Skpotamus]

the white blind cane is a case of fraud if you are not blind. it has several rights added to it to protect the sightless in traffic and things.

I would if he took the walking stick go to a different agency and charge the officer with theft. ( yes boys and girls criminal charges. ) and if he arrested me for carrying it, I would make an arrest myself at the jail or police station under title 18.

Just because he has a badge and is an LEO does not make him able to brake the law. in the US we do have a problem with some police thinking that their badge and status as a sworn officer or what ever kind make them some how above the law, this is a real problem

Well, the way things are written in the law books and the way the officers choose to apply them is quite different in most cases. Getting an officer charged for anythng is quite hard, and making it stick is even harder. Here's a link (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/1...lice-officer-fatal-crash-blood-test-concerns/) where an officer was drunk driving his dept issued vehicle, hits two people on a motorcycle, killing one, and has his DUI charges dropped due to police "mishandling" the test results. Note other things listed: State Supreme court wouldn't even revoke the officers license after his drunk driving KILLED SOMEONE.

This happened almost a full year ago and the officer hasn't even been fired or arrested. In fact, they initially tried to blame the motorcyclists for "failing to move" while stopped at a red light for the drunken officer. http://www.indystar.com/article/99999999/NEWS06/100813056/Background-Bisard-case

So while an officer confiscating a cane for defensive purposes might not be legal, good luck getting it to stick, and good luck after that with tickets and such.

 

[Drac]

I carry one of GM Shueys Dojo canes whenever I travel.

 

[redhawk44357]

combat canes with points and grooves half way down the shaft are a red flag to the TSO. The old style wooden cane with the crook can get you anywhere, check the american disabities act. If you need one go for it. If you are a 20 something in good health why bother with a cane, both hands are then free for any method you choose. I am 61 and need a cane ( bad knee and foot pain). There is no training near me, so i do the best i can with Hock Hockiem and Mike Janich materials. Sword canes can just make a bad day worse, something about concealed weapons not to mention blade length laws in your jurisdiction. my .02

 

[lklawson]

If you are a 20 something in good health why bother with a cane, both hands are then free for any method you choose.

Because a good stick can lay down a much more effective beat than bare hands.

It's simple math. Stick > Bare-hands

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Cyriacus]

Because a good stick can lay down a much more effective beat than bare hands.

It's simple math. Stick > Bare-hands

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

In Terms of Impact, Yes.
And Reach.

You can do alot more with a Stick.
Having a Stick in-hand when the Time comes is about the only Primary Flaw I see.

 

[frank raud]

In Terms of Impact, Yes.
And Reach.

You can do alot more with a Stick.
Having a Stick in-hand when the Time comes is about the only Primary Flaw I see.

Which would be why you carry your stick/cane with you.

 

[Josh Oakley]

I usually carry a BO staff when hiking. This can not allways be carried without getting kicked out of somewhere for having a weapon.

I want a handicap looking cane for places that I cant have anything else such as an air plain, no carry zone, etc. I want to put a rubber bottom on and use it for defense. This needs to look like a tradition cane so I can take it anywhere. Who makes the best ones? Are any unbreakable?

Found these

http://www.combatcanes.com/Why_Canes_.html

I want an unbreakable walking stick for when I can have a firearm and the stick will not matter. I have found these two. This would be carried where they area is no restrictive.

http://www.coldsteel.com/citystick.html


http://www.coldsteel.com/irishblackthorn.html

Any other ideas?


I am taking a few classes for cane specific fighting.

You don't need an unbreakable cane, for starters. Now for my other points:

1) Canemasters canes are very nice, but unnecessarily expensive.
2) A Blackthorn cane is Captain Obvious.
3) If you don't need it for a walking aid, any cane you get will be Captain Obvious!
4) Captain Obvious wears a giant target painted on his chest.
5) Planes are pretty tight spaces to use canes anyway.
6) A better self-defense weapon for a plane s a good steel pen. If you're feeling unnecessarily spendy, there are pens developed specificaly for employment in self-defense.

 

[rainesr]

The cold steel city stick would probably be my first choice, although I do know at least one LEO who mentioned that he'd arrest anyone carrying a CS city stick.

I know a Police officer who got his station sued over this very thing, the police lost. Unfortunately most people don't have the extra cash to sue over such a thing like my friend.

 

[Josh Oakley]

The biggest problem with this plan is that 99% of all the cane systems I've ever seen (and I've looked at a lot) are predicated on the fact that YOU DON'T NEED A CANE TO STAND OR MOVE.

If you actually have a bum leg/foot/knee and can't walk without your cane, then the vast majority of cane systems out there simply won't work for you.

To date I've seen exactly one cane system which makes allowances for the bizarre idea that you're carrying a cane as an aid to ambulation instead of as an "under the radar" weapon or because you're pretentious. That system is Chas Clements' "Combat Cane for Cripples." Good luck finding it. Last I heard Chas was down and out with a severe case of neuropathy and the instructional vids he made of his cane system were all on VHS.

I've seen precisely one generic stick system which had any allowance that the fighter might have a bum leg and that was a Silat system where the progenitor of the style actually had a club-foot. No points for guessing that Chas spent some quality time in that system (he was primarily a DeThours guy until they had a falling out). I don't recall the name of the system off hand.

My advice: Go find Chas and see if he'll give you any tips - he lives in the Boulder area. Failing that try to find someone who has one of Chas' VHS tapes and can make a DVD for you. Failing that, learn a cane system that is super-basic and focus your energy on the fundamentals of it which require little to no movement (sorry Hapkido and Shuey guys). Then, after you've got the basics down well, spend a lot of time practicing with setups that screw up your movement. Here are some ideas (a few of which I've done, myself):

• stick a pebble in your shoe - it'll hurt to try to "walk" or even stand on that foot
• hobble your legs - no, really. Tie your ankles together with a short length of rope, may be two feet or so
• wear a medical leg brace that prevents your knee from bending
• strap one foot up - bend your knee all the way until your foot is touching the buttock. Use an old belt to strap it down.
• affix a 5lb weight on top of a helmet and wear that. The higher the better - it'll mess with your balance.

Now try to fight with your cane. Better hope there's a tree or a wall or something near by

Seriously. I'm a huge cane fan. I carry one all the time. But if you really need a cane to stand or walk, freaking NONE of the systems commonly available to you are worth diddly.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

This:
http://www.canemasters.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=36

And this:
http://www.your-personal-and-home-security.com/cane-self-defense.html

And this:
http://yamaneko.ca/

And this:
http://www.naturalmotionmartialarts.com/
And this:
http://www.prnewschannel.com/absolutenm/templates/?a=2984

 

[chinto]

Well, the way things are written in the law books and the way the officers choose to apply them is quite different in most cases. Getting an officer charged for anythng is quite hard, and making it stick is even harder. Here's a link (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/1...lice-officer-fatal-crash-blood-test-concerns/) where an officer was drunk driving his dept issued vehicle, hits two people on a motorcycle, killing one, and has his DUI charges dropped due to police "mishandling" the test results. Note other things listed: State Supreme court wouldn't even revoke the officers license after his drunk driving KILLED SOMEONE.

This happened almost a full year ago and the officer hasn't even been fired or arrested. In fact, they initially tried to blame the motorcyclists for "failing to move" while stopped at a red light for the drunken officer. http://www.indystar.com/article/99999999/NEWS06/100813056/Background-Bisard-case

So while an officer confiscating a cane for defensive purposes might not be legal, good luck getting it to stick, and good luck after that with tickets and such.

in my state it is policy for all law enforcement agency's to enforce and honor all citizens arrests. The state police will do so against LEO's as well. there are several cases of this happening and the charges have stuck in most of the cases I know of. Oh and if its under Title 18 US code, the US marshals and or the FBI get involved as its federal.

 

[lklawson]

2) A Blackthorn cane is Captain Obvious.

To who? I carry knobbed canes all the time and have for well over a decade. No one has ever hassled me about them, not once. Not cops. Not Joe Citizen. Not Security Guards. Not on Base after Ft. Hood. No one.

3) If you don't need it for a walking aid, any cane you get will be Captain Obvious!
4) Captain Obvious wears a giant target painted on his chest.

I am a perfectly healthy middle aged white male. I have never been hassled. Ever. The closest it I have ever come is when paying a common traffic ticket, I had to go through Court House security. The LEO took my pocket knife for storage and later return then ran my cane through the X-Ray. He asked if I wanted help standing while they had my cane. I smiled and said, "no thank you." Then, after irradiating my cane, he returned it to me with a bored look.

5) Planes are pretty tight spaces to use canes anyway.

I taught a class on the use of a cane for defense in confined spaces with restricted movement just last night. It is very, very do-able.

6) A better self-defense weapon for a plane s a good steel pen. If you're feeling unnecessarily spendy, there are pens developed specificaly for employment in self-defense.

In your opinion. Knowing what I know I'd rather have a cane than a pen for SD any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

This:
http://www.canemasters.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=36

And this:
http://www.your-personal-and-home-security.com/cane-self-defense.html

You didn't read these links, did you. The first is Shuey's "Cane Masters." Though he talks about "seniors," I've yet to see any comprehensive part of his system which is designed for use by someone who needs a cane to stand or move (you noticed that from my post, right? Hello?) And your second link, though also talking about "seniors" specifically says that it's Shuey's system. Then, just a few lines later he says, "There is a warning however. If you are not that sturdy on your feet to use these moves, then you might not be able to do this. You might lose your balance..." and "If you are not agile enough to do these moves, then carrying a self defense weapon like pepper spray or a personal safety alarm might be better for you."

And this:
http://yamaneko.ca/

About his own system, the gentleman says (specifically), "If you can play tennis or golf, if you can dance. You can learn and practice the use of the cane or walking stick for self defence… "

Seriously now, playing Tennis and Dancing? Does that sound like someone who needs a cane to stand or move?

And this:
http://www.naturalmotionmartialarts.com/
And this:
http://www.prnewschannel.com/absolutenm/templates/?a=2984

These, at least, go to address what I was talking about and serve to highlight my point. Out of the thousands of cane/stick systems out there we have, now, a total of, what three?, documented systems which makes an effort to be useful to someone who needs a cane to stand or move. There might be a handful more to be found, if you hunt hard enough.

So, I stand by my original statement that, the biggest problem with this plan is that 99% of all the cane systems I've ever seen (and I've looked at a lot) are predicated on the fact that YOU DON'T NEED A CANE TO STAND OR MOVE. Although, I'll have to modify statement from "I've seen precisely one generic stick system which had any allowance that the fighter might have a bum leg" to "I've seen precisely three generic stick system which had any allowance that the fighter might have a bum leg."

Three whole systems, two of which appear to be specialized "one offs" only available for live instruction in the instructors home-base, and the third being a very uncommon Silat system. I still stand by my statement: "But if you really need a cane to stand or walk, freaking NONE of the systems commonly available to you are worth diddly."

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Skpotamus]

In Indiana, most of the citizen arrest cases I've read about ended up with felony charges against the person(s) making the arrest.

MICHIGAN CITY, Ind. (AP) - Two people who helped place a man under citizen's arrest when he strayed onto the wrong property found themselves in jail. ...were arrested and charged with criminal confinement, a Class D felony punishable by up to three years in prison and a $10,000 fine, and battery, a Class A misdemeanor which carries a maximum penalty of a year in jail and a fine up to $5,000.
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=456&sid=845393 Guy was hunting on another persons property illegally. Confinement charge was from them not letting him leave, battery was from them grabbing him and telling him to not resist that he was under arrest).

A citizens arrest opens you up to some serious consequences if things go south.