Ugly fight: LEO v Criminal

[Xinglu]

Commendations are what they are. He made an arrest in a difficult situation. He won, and he stuck with it. Would I have preferred to see him do something differently? Sure. But I have the luxury of watching it from my comfy sofa. I can think of some incidents that I've handled rather unwisely in hindsight... And I've received awards, commendations and/or positive memos to my personnel files for dumb luck or cases that I didn't really do anything special in... they just got the right people's attention.

In this case -- I again note that he made the arrest, using minimum force. That's his job... And I don't know what else was a factor; did arresting the guy close numerous cases? Was he a high profile target for another reason? Were there reasons that aren't apparent from the video that made using more force a bad call? Like I said -- lots of things not provided here.

And cops get little enough praise for what they do; why begrudge him this when it's just a matter of handling it differently?

Fair enough

 

[Bruno@MT]

this will unfortunately bother some.

The proper response of a non-cop in a case like this is to contact cops and stand down.

Most civilians do not have the training to handle a situation such as this.
If you are injured or killed, you're on your own.
You might be mistaken as another attacker and injured or killed by arriving law enforcement.
If you injure the attacker, you can and likely will face significant legal challenge.
The city will most likely not help your defense.
If you accidentally strike the officer, you stand a high chance of being charged.
If the local pd is one of the attitude ones, you might save the cops life, but face an "interfering with cop" charge.
Let me repeat, most civilians are not trained to handle these type of situations, and can be injured, or killed, and face significant financial, medical and legal risk should they intervene.

Film it, call emergency services, stay on the line, inform them that a cop is engaged in a fight, be aware of where you are at and give an accurate location to speed up response time of properly equipped and trained responders.

If the officer goes down, get a detailed description of the person, his mode of escape, license plate, direction, etc and relay that to the dispatcher. Unless you are a trained medic, do not move the injured person, doing so may cause more injury.

"but bob, i have to do something."
yes, call 911, take notes, but unless you have training and are willing to accept the legal, financial and medical risks, stand down.

Tactically, a 1 on 1 fight feels fair. Add another body to that, and the perp may escalate. The cop now has to also worry about your safety in addition to yours. In the heat of battle he may mistake your attempt to help as being the attackers back up. Many well meaning people have been taken away muttering "i was just trying to help". Some in bags.

+1.

 

[Bruno@MT]

Thanks Bob. Asked and received.

Just to further the conversation, look at this.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2247/can-cops-really-commandeer-cars



Realize that some states have laws that authorize officers to command you to assist them and its against the law to refuse.

Heres one from your State:

S 195.10 Refusing to aid a peace or a police officer.

A person is guilty of refusing to aid a peace or a police officer
when, upon command by a peace or a police officer identifiable or
identified to him as such, he unreasonably fails or refuses to aid such
peace or a police officer in effecting an arrest, or in preventing the
commission by another person of any offense.

Refusing to aid a peace or a police officer is a class B misdemeanor.

Aye. In that case, many of Bob's remarks are dealt with implicitly, because by asking:
- the cop assumes you are the good guy.
- you probably have some legal protection.
- the cop will not begrudge your interference.

This is a completely different scenario than jumping in unasked.

 

[jks9199]

I dont know when the video was shot but I dont think that he had the option of going to a taser. He did try to go to cuffing way to early (no control) and the civilians who helped should be commended, obviously not the person with the video camera.

One thing I noticed (LEO's please chime in here) the officer was determined to grab onto this guy and hold on like you see in so many LEO arrest situations resulting in a fight.

Does it seem to any of you long in the tooth LEO(s) that, until recently, this was SOP: "Grab and arm (or something) and drag to the ground."

He really seems to take some shots from this guy who "is" fighting and not holding on and hoping for the best.

It's pretty common to try to take a resisting person to the ground simply because that removes a lot of options for the person you're fighting -- or did until recently. Also, most DT programs work the arm bar takedown pretty heavy; it applies to a lot of situations, since often resistance starts when the first cuff goes on. And... remember, the goal of a cop's fight is often to subdue and cuff the guy... which kinda means hanging on to him!

 

[chaos1551]

Police officers, unfortunately, rarely receive the praise they deserve. It is a difficult job that anyone who has never been an officer wouldn't understand.

The officer in this video is a hero. Period.

 

[Xinglu]

The officer in this video is a hero. Period.

I disagree.

Police officers (not just this one guy) by nature are heros. Period.

They put their life on the line every day.

 

[seasoned]

I disagree.

Police officers (not just this one guy) by nature are heros. Period.

They put their life on the line every day.

Everyday in everyway. The uniform alone makes them a target.

 

[Deaf Smith]

First in the video I saw several chances to do arm bars, knees, slamming head on car/wall, choke holds, elbow attacks, etc... but the cop, I guess being trained to 'apprehend', kept trying to just get a hold of his hands so he could cuff him.

Now as for assisting the LEO....

Here in Texas a LEO can ask you to help him and you temporarily become a LEO yourself (but only in his presence, if you lose sight of him, you lose the protection of the law.)You will be covered from lawsuits the same as the LEO but I doubt you will have his health care coverage. So big boy rules apply.

A lone cop, struggling with someone that much, is in need of help so simply ask or shout, "do you need help officer?" If he indicates 'yes', then help!

And yes, you have better be trained on H2H to some level. And here is where maybe grappling would come into it's own, at least for the type of trouble the cop had in this video.

Deaf