Coming to aid of LEO

[OULobo]

Not quite true. I am a Police Officer 24/7, on or off duty...my "powers" dont punch a time clock and are state wide (in NY). Not that Im going to jump into domestics off duty while Im with the family.... In NY there is a difference between Police and Peace Officers. Peace Officers powers are limited to location and job specification.

So you are saying that when you are off duty you have the government given police powers. I'm not talking citizen's rights powers, like a citizen's arrest, I'm concerned with official police powers, like the power of arrest, power to detain, the power to search, ect.? You say your those powers are statewide? That must be unique to NY. Here in OH, a police officer is only allowed to use his government given powers if he is within the boarders of the government that gave him those powers; if he is a city cop, he can only operate within the city; if he is a county sheriff, he can only operate in the county; if he is a state trooper, he can only operate on state property like highways and interstates. Hell, until recently officers off duty weren't even allowed to carry thier service pistols off duty.

 

[OULobo]

If people would quit watching episodes of COPS on TV where the scenes are chosen for the criteria of what is and is not allowed on regular tv, and start maybe looking at other cases, such as the more violent crimes that LEO's deal with on a daily basis, they wouldnt worry about whether a LEO is or is not a civilian. Maybe they would just give them the respect that a LEO deserves for doing their duty.

I personally think this is a very dangerous attitude. With all due repect to the police and their duties and responsibilities, like everyone in any industry, they are not capable of policing themselves. To not worry about their status as a civilian, is to not concern ourselves with the consequences of thier actions. I don't watch cop dramas, I've been on numerous ride alongs and I spent three months learning from the police exactly what is required of them, what they encounter and how the operate. Even if I didn't choose to experience these things, that doesn't mean that it should be taken for granted that all decenting opinions of police actions are based on late night TV "blue line" dramas. I give respect for the calibre of the individual person, not the badge they pin on.

 

[Tgace]

So you are saying that when you are off duty you have the government given police powers. I'm not talking citizen's rights powers, like a citizen's arrest, I'm concerned with official police powers, like the power of arrest, power to detain, the power to search, ect.? You say your those powers are statewide? That must be unique to NY. Here in OH, a police officer is only allowed to use his government given powers if he is within the boarders of the government that gave him those powers; if he is a city cop, he can only operate within the city; if he is a county sheriff, he can only operate in the county; if he is a state trooper, he can only operate on state property like highways and interstates. Hell, until recently officers off duty weren't even allowed to carry thier service pistols off duty.

From the NY criminal procedure law...

NYSCPL 140.10 Arrest without a warrant; by police officer; when and where authorized.

1. Subject to the provisions of subdivision two, a police officer may arrest a person for:

(a) Any offense when he has reasonable cause to believe that such person has committed such offense in his presence; and

(b) A crime when he has reasonable cause to believe that such person has committed such crime, whether in his presence or otherwise.

2. A police officer may arrest a person for a petty offense, pursuant to subdivision one, only when:

(a) Such offense was committed or believed by him to have been committed within the geographical area of such police officer's employment; and

(b) Such arrest is made in the county in which such offense was committed or believed to have been committed or in an adjoining county; except that the police officer may follow such person in continuous close pursuit, commencing either in the county in which the offense was or is believed to have been committed or in an adjoining county, in and through any county of the state, and may arrest him in any county in which he apprehends him.

3. A police officer may arrest a person for a crime, pursuant to subdivision one, whether or not such crime was committed within the geographical area of such police officer's employment, and he may make such arrest within the state, regardless of the situs of the commission of the crime. In addition, he may, if necessary, pursue such person outside the state and may arrest him in any state the laws of which contain provisions equivalent to those of section 140.55.



Petty offenses are violations, crimes are felonies and misdemeanors. The CPL makes no distinction between "on or off-duty".

Many States have such laws.

 

[Tgace]

I give respect for the calibre of the individual person, not the badge they pin on.

With all respect, to me that statement always rings as a veiled way of saying "I dont respect the Police for the job they do". (somehow everybody respects firemen though ) Do you "respect" US Soldiers for the duty they do? Or do you have to get to know each of them and their work history first? There is a difference between respecting a persons service and respecting the person as an individual.

As to the Civilian Vs. (?) issue. Im not really solid with an opinion on that one. While Im not for creating an "Us vs. Them" atmosphere, there obviously is some sort of difference. Otherwise there wouldnt need to be things like "Civilian Review boards" or "Civilian Oversight committees" or "Civilian employees in police departments" or "Citizen Police academies".

 

[8253]

I personally think this is a very dangerous attitude. With all due repect to the police and their duties and responsibilities, like everyone in any industry, they are not capable of policing themselves. To not worry about their status as a civilian, is to not concern ourselves with the consequences of thier actions. I don't watch cop dramas, I've been on numerous ride alongs and I spent three months learning from the police exactly what is required of them, what they encounter and how the operate. Even if I didn't choose to experience these things, that doesn't mean that it should be taken for granted that all decenting opinions of police actions are based on late night TV "blue line" dramas. I give respect for the calibre of the individual person, not the badge they pin on.

It is a very dangerous attitude. No body is capable of policing themselves. As far as a LEO not being a civilian, i believe that i have already explained how i feel about that. As far as the perception of most people of a LEO, most peoples perceptions are based on tv dramas. I mean lets face it, how many people actually deal with LEO's every day. Not very many. I work in a County with only about 13000 people,and I have maybe talked to about 1000 to 2000 of them. Repeatedly I might add. That leaves about 11000 to 12000 people in this county alone who have not dealt with a LEO directly. Yet if you ask these people who havent dealt with them their opinion, where do they draw their conclusions from. As far as a badge goes, you are correct, it is not the badge, but the person. However all LEO's do go into situations that are very dangerous to protect innocent people. That is what I respect about the Deputies that i work with.


Originally Posted by OULobo
Here in OH, a police officer is only allowed to use his government given powers if he is within the boarders of the government that gave him those powers; if he is a city cop, he can only operate within the city; if he is a county sheriff, he can only operate in the county; if he is a state trooper, he can only operate on state property like highways and interstates.

This is just an informational correction, please dont take this the wrong way.
In OH a police officer only has their powers in a particular jurisdiction unless assistance is asked for outside of that jurisdiction. A Deputy Sheriff according to OPOTC is a Deputy Sheriff of Ohio. Mainly the powers are used in a single jurisdiction. A State Trooper has the authority to operate on any public roadway or property. They however do not have the authority to handle a private property complaint.

 

[OULobo]

From the NY criminal procedure law...

NYSCPL 140.10 Arrest without a warrant; by police officer; when and where authorized.

1. Subject to the provisions of subdivision two, a police officer may arrest a person for:

(a) Any offense when he has reasonable cause to believe that such person has committed such offense in his presence; and

(b) A crime when he has reasonable cause to believe that such person has committed such crime, whether in his presence or otherwise.

2. A police officer may arrest a person for a petty offense, pursuant to subdivision one, only when:

(a) Such offense was committed or believed by him to have been committed within the geographical area of such police officer's employment; and

(b) Such arrest is made in the county in which such offense was committed or believed to have been committed or in an adjoining county; except that the police officer may follow such person in continuous close pursuit, commencing either in the county in which the offense was or is believed to have been committed or in an adjoining county, in and through any county of the state, and may arrest him in any county in which he apprehends him.

3. A police officer may arrest a person for a crime, pursuant to subdivision one, whether or not such crime was committed within the geographical area of such police officer's employment, and he may make such arrest within the state, regardless of the situs of the commission of the crime. In addition, he may, if necessary, pursue such person outside the state and may arrest him in any state the laws of which contain provisions equivalent to those of section 140.55.



Petty offenses are violations, crimes are felonies and misdemeanors. The CPL makes no distinction between "on or off-duty".

Many States have such laws.

Then this is a differance between your state and mine as 8253 stated. OH officers can persue into other jurisdictions, but only if the offense was witnessed in thiers.

 

[OULobo]

With all respect, to me that statement always rings as a veiled way of saying "I dont respect the Police for the job they do". (somehow everybody respects firemen though ) Do you "respect" US Soldiers for the duty they do? Or do you have to get to know each of them and their work history first? There is a difference between respecting a persons service and respecting the person as an individual.

As to the Civilian Vs. (?) issue. Im not really solid with an opinion on that one. While Im not for creating an "Us vs. Them" atmosphere, there obviously is some sort of difference. Otherwise there wouldnt need to be things like "Civilian Review boards" or "Civilian Oversight committees" or "Civilian employees in police departments" or "Citizen Police academies".

You can take my quote any way you want to, I stand by it just the same. The only respect I give an officer because of his badge is what the law requires, the rest is the same initial respect I would give any other human being regardless of occupation.

I personally repect soldiers no more than anyone else, unless they have dones something more that deserves respect. I have met too many that are just in it because they don't have any other skills, needed to get out of town, just like guns, or just wanted to be a tough guy; no patriotism involved. I good individual that deserves respect will serve accordingly, so there is no need to respect their service, only the person that is serving.

Not to be too picky, but Civilian Review boards and Civilian Oversight committees are things designed to monitor on duty officers, which as has been stated earlier in the thread (8253) are not considered civilian, they are not, however designed to monitor off-duty officers, which as has been stated earlier in the thread (8253) are considered civilians.

 

[OULobo]

It is a very dangerous attitude. No body is capable of policing themselves. As far as a LEO not being a civilian, i believe that i have already explained how i feel about that. As far as the perception of most people of a LEO, most peoples perceptions are based on tv dramas. I mean lets face it, how many people actually deal with LEO's every day. Not very many. I work in a County with only about 13000 people,and I have maybe talked to about 1000 to 2000 of them. Repeatedly I might add. That leaves about 11000 to 12000 people in this county alone who have not dealt with a LEO directly. Yet if you ask these people who havent dealt with them their opinion, where do they draw their conclusions from. As far as a badge goes, you are correct, it is not the badge, but the person. However all LEO's do go into situations that are very dangerous to protect innocent people. That is what I respect about the Deputies that i work with.

I guess I can agree with most of that, but please don't lump everyone into the TV educated masses. Some of us strive to learn things past the boob tube. Consequently, I have to say that I would respect anyone that goes into a dangerous situation to protect innocent people, but as we know, that isn't what is required of an officer, it is only what some (most) of them choose to do out of a greatly appreciated sense of duty and generocity.

Originally Posted by OULobo
Here in OH, a police officer is only allowed to use his government given powers if he is within the boarders of the government that gave him those powers; if he is a city cop, he can only operate within the city; if he is a county sheriff, he can only operate in the county; if he is a state trooper, he can only operate on state property like highways and interstates.

This is just an informational correction, please dont take this the wrong way.
In OH a police officer only has their powers in a particular jurisdiction unless assistance is asked for outside of that jurisdiction. A Deputy Sheriff according to OPOTC is a Deputy Sheriff of Ohio. Mainly the powers are used in a single jurisdiction. A State Trooper has the authority to operate on any public roadway or property. They however do not have the authority to handle a private property complaint.

So I'm not far off base, if at all. Thanks for the extra info.

 

[8253]

This has been an interesting topic and i appreciate your cander. I look forward to future conversations.

 

[Tgace]

http://www.s-t.com/daily/09-00/09-24-00/a01lo004.htm

Interesting article and dead on from a cops point of view.

As to the "respect" thing. I think that people mistake "respect" with some sort of fear or special treatment. What I mean is the occasional "Thank You for the job you do." I get from the odd passerby. They dont "know me" or the job I do. They are residents of the town that have seen our work in the news or on the occasional home scanner and appreciate our efforts. Very few of us are looking for "special treatment".