UFC Style Fighting

[bscastro]

I think it is true that fighter multiple attackers is not the most desirable situation. However, I think it helps to train these type of situations because it will expose the nervous system to that type of stress, so that if it does happen to come up (hopefully not for most of us) we might have a clue as to what to do...even if that means finding the nearest exit and running like the wind!

I think the training is not to teach that one can "win" against multiple attackers, but maybe how to handle the stress and look towards "survival."

Bryan

 

[Hansson]

Originally posted by bscastro



I think the training is not to teach that one can "win" against multiple attackers, but maybe how to handle the stress and look towards "survival."

Bryan

You mean like sprint training?

 

[Zujitsuka]

I just couldn't resist putting my two cents in.

Let me preface my post by first stating that I am not martial arts expert. Nor do I profess to be the toughest guy this side of the Mississippi. I'm a student that became aware of things that I had to work on to be the best that I can be as a martial artist, and be able to defend myself and my loved ones if necessary.

I live in NYC, and I have seen A LOT of people, including my former self, develop a false sense of security in their skills despite the fact that they never tested themselves or their complex techniques in the ring and/or on the mat.

First of all, in regards to streetfighting, most 'street fights' happen where alcohol (and maybe drugs) are in abundance like dance clubs, bars, and concerts.

If you stay alert and sober, and make a few lifestyle changes, and use your GOD-given common sense, you will avoid most 'street fights.'

A lot of people say that real fighting includes eye pokes, biting, head butts, etc.

I have a question for those who don't want to bother with sport fighting because that isn't 'real fighting'...

If you can't punch someone in the face with a 14oz glove, what in the heck makes you think that you can poke them in the eye?

'Sports' like Western Boxing, Kickboxing (in all its forms), and wrestling (in all its forms) help you develop timing, distancing, footwork, endurance, mental toughness, and the ability to "take a licking and keep on ticking" while under fire (i.e. someone is trying to kick your butt).

When you are in a "too deadly to spar" martial art, your pulling your punches and hitting intentionally off target will come back to haunt you. That is what will be programmed into you muscle memory. Hey, you're going to fight the way you train and when you get into a real fight, and your punches and kicks fall short of their target, you very well may have blown your only chance and you could be in deep doo-doo.

Let's be real here, NO ONE is going to just let you walk up to them and apply a joint lock, a throw, or strike them.

A non-cooperative opponent keeps you honest to yourself about what you need to work on, and what is and isn't effective.

Great men like the founder of Judo, Jigoro Kano, took up the martial arts to strengthen his body - to become tougher. And he realized that the only way you can test your technique and conditioning is to actually go against a non-cooperative opponent - NOT AN UKE/COOPERATIVE PARTNER! Thus the advent of what is called "Randori."

Famous Karateka, Mas Oyama is well-known because and his Kyokushin Karate style and its offshoots like Seido Karate are known as "knockout karate." Knocking out who? A non-cooperative, agressive, determined opponent, that is who.

If you are a martial artist, you need to hit some, and get hit some.

How are you going to know what works and doesn't work? Of course everything works against an uke, but the ring and/or the mat will be the laboratory in which you can test technique and learn new things.

Yeah, okay....

Keep on planning to poke a Boxer/Kickboxer or grappler in the eye or kick him in the groin. All of the "too deadly to spar" types always have a great plan - UNTIL THEY GET HIT!

In regards to multiple opponents, you must have superior endurance and you have to be use to being hit - because you will be hit. You have to stick and move...and then RUN! Same thing with weapons. I've seen people stabbed and shanked and if you think that you will have time to stand toe-to-toe with a determined attacker and work you technique and not be cut, you are very mistaken.

Remember, everything works in the dojo and at martial arts demos. If you want to see what will not work, take a field trip to your a popular bar or club during college spring break when excess testosterone is floating around.

"The more you sweat during peace, the less you will bleed in war." - Sun Tzu

Respectfully,

Tyrone Turner
"Zujitsuka"
Queens, NY
http://www.tyroneturner.com

 

[Zujitsuka]

Further my last post in this thread, in the military, you're given live rounds to shoot at practice targets at the rifle and pistol range. This is how you can develop your skill as a marksman.

Now, the million dollar question: How can you develop your skill as a marksman without every firing live rounds?

Answer: You can't!

Laser tag (i.e. Miles gear) will not let you know if you're truly on target. This is the same as not actually hitting someone who is trying to do the same. Punching or kicking heavybag or a focus mit will not give you a true gauge of your abilities, because they don't hit back.

It wouldn't be so smart to wait until a soldier is in the middle of a battle to then give him/her live rounds. They will not have had the experience of feeling the recoil of the weapon, or the "bang" that goes along with discharging a round.

Peace & blessings,

Tyrone Turner
"Zujitsuka"
Queens, NY
http://www.tyroneturner.com

 

[Hansson]

Well spoken Zujitsuka...

I also have a hard time recognizing the 'reality' of some people. Of course, it depends on where you live.

Here, in Stockholm, robberies occur pretty frequently, mostly in and around the subway. In most cases, the robbers use knives and do not stab their victims, except from maybe a small cut to scare them. Not a situation where it's worthwhile to fight back (better to just hand them your cellular and wallet).

Situations (I think someone described above) where families out on a day in town are attacked by mad killers do not happen very frequently. Actually, I've never heard of it.

The vast majority of the non-domestic violence is either between criminal groups or at places where alcohol is served (or around these places). If you go out a few times a month you're almost certain to find yourself in a potentially threatening situation. Then it's up to you what you make out of it.

 

[7starmantis]

I agree that extreme situations do not happen very often, but to say "never" is a little gulible. As a former paramedic in two of the nations largest cities, I can tell you that extreme situations do happen. If it never happens to you, you are doing great! But whats the hurt in being prepared for a situation that never happens to you ? That is the question.



7sm

 

[sweeper]

ok, first. I don't think this thred was about who would do better in a street fight, a NHB fifghter or a TMA fighter.. It was why don't TMA fighters fight in the UFC, and my post was directed at thet, I didn't say anything about TMA not training full contact or that I didn't..

second who says you are gona use an "illegal" move in the situations you mention? in JKD we use lead finger jabs as feints, they aren't intended to do real dammage, if the slip than you should have another weapon already on it's way to a target, if they don't they just got a finger in the eye.. where it becomes usefull is in grappling and ground fighting where you are relativly imobile, do I do full contact sparring? yes. Do I do ground fighting? Yes. I don't practice UFC style (though I would like to, just havn't had much time) but I do know that if you are grappling it is easy to get a thumb in your opponant's eye.. it's easy to elbo, bunch claw, bite, whatever because your opponant can't get out of the way. What I was saying is there are alot of attacks and counters in UHC style fighting that aren't all that great in a real fight because they ignore some "illegal" tactic. Here's an example I used before, When sparring with one of my freinds that tends to treat sparring matches more like competitions than dynamic training (how I view it) I slipped a punch and shot in kinda high (aorund his waist) he countered with a guilatine choke. He does it every time.. it's a great counter in a situation where groin strikes are illegal.. but when it doesn't matter, than grabbing a good hold of your opponant's sack and pulling down is gona break that lock (unless they are REALY drugged up) (and no I didn't do that, I just tapped him on the cup). I see this thing all the time with people who train in "martial sports" (he haad a judo background), not to say I have much expeience fighting or in any martial sport, or to say I'm a good fighter (I'm none of those things). Just People need to be aware that the slightest rule will totaly change how you fight.. another example would be in JKD we practice alot of our kicks assumming you will have shoes on. We throw kicks diffrent to maximise the dammage you can do because of this. That means when we are sparring low kicks have alot more potential than if we were barefoot because you can in diffrent ways to cxause alot more pain (it's hard to scrape the skin off someone's shin with a bare foot, it's easy with a shoe). That means all other aspects of our training, our deffence, our offence, everything changes because of that small diffrence.. now you go into grappling and you say I can't strike the groin, I can't bite, I can't gouge eyes, I can't break someone's pinky to get out of a hold? well I'm gona have a big dis advantage if I pend alot of time training to do this and how to fight to prevent your oppoant from doing this.. I'm not talking about who would have a better chance in a street fight, Or who would be better off when 4 guys with baseball bats kick in my door (in that situation I'm going out the window and sprinting like the wind..). For the amount of time I spend training (wich isn't much relative to how much NHB fighter train) I think I pritty much optimise my time.

Now to the issue of war.. neither martial art or martial sport is gona prepare you for that.. it hasn't been a large part of infantry training for a long time because if you get there, basicly something has gone wrong.. or to put it another way, why train your least powerfull weapon and niglect your most powerfull? Being a soldier is nothing like being a fighter or an athlete or anything else there may be aspects that over lap but over all they are dissimular.

Now as to who will do better ina street fight, a TMA or a NHB fighter, I would say that deppends.. Alot of people use the example of a very skilled TMA fighting in self deffencs as aposed to a top notch NHB fighter, But I would point out most people that are very skilled in TMA are alot older than top notch competetors in NHB fights, I would say if you wanted to learn to deffend yourself as quickly as posable that something like NHB school would be better than alot of martial arts simply because of the volume of information alot of TMA schools try to teach you, the NHB fighting is more to the point, and if you take into account some other simple factors (like dealing with weapons and fighting multiple people) I think in a relativly short period of time (year or two) you would have a better chance of deffending yourself than in alot of TMA.. This also takes into account that alot of TMA schools aren't all that good on account of their instructors simply being bad (if you had a top notch instructor it might be diffrent). But in my opinion it's a matter of optimisation, a NHB fighter trains in the most basic of basics in an attempt to optimise them where as genneraly you learn a boader spectrum of information in a TMA school.

another aspect would be dealing with high stress situations that would respond with a "fight or flight" responce, in these situations your body goes under some changes, your fine motor skills decrease in acuracy, you tend to act out of instinct and your gross mottor skills genneraly are faster and stronger, you get tunnle vission, you loose depther perception, and many other changes that unless you specialy prepare for could affect either a TMA or a NHB fighter adversly, in those situations (if neither trained for them) I would argue that a NHB fighter would do better, because alot of the techniques that utalise fine motor skills are illegal in MMA fights most techniques trained use gross motor movement, and are trained more (per the amount of time training) than someone who would train both.

and as to the rules of the UFC, there are 31 fouls in UHC fighting, a couple are in regards to it being a match like "no attacking in between rounds" but most are limitations on fighting style.

http://www.ufc.tv/history/rules.asp

If you want to know what is legal and what isn't go there and take a look around.. and Judo kid, If you realy want to be in the UFC I'm supprised you aren't fammiliar with the rules...