UFC and PFC Rules.....Is it a real fight?

[Cobra]

I've been reveiwing the rules for the UFC and the Pride Fighting Championships. And it seams to me that there is way to many rules to it be considered a fight. Here are the rules that aply for both UFC and PFC;

1. Biting
3. Eye thumbing and eye gouging
4. Head butting
5. Attacking the groin
6. Pulling Hair
7. Pushing the windpipe with the thumb or finger (s) or squeezing the windpipe
8. Attacking the back of the head, the spine and/or the medulla (The back of the head is the centerline of the head and the area around the ears are not considered to be the back of the head.)
9. Using the elbows to attack the head or the face
   Grabbing the ropes and refuse to release the ropes and/or hanging the limbs of the body (hand(s), arm(s), leg(s) or feet) over the rope intentionally. A fighter who places his upper arm over the rope shall be given a caution immediately.
10. No kicking the legs or knees directly.

Frankly there is just too many rules. Hitting the groin and eye gouging and thunbing they should probably ban, but headbutting or kicking the legs? Why do they have to put so many rules. I'ts not a real fight with that many rules.

 

[Marginal]

Your rules seem somewhat off unless Pride and the UFC have drastically altered their rulesets recently. There's no restriction against kicking the legs, and the UFC doesn't use rings etc.

 

[MJS]

I've been reveiwing the rules for the UFC and the Pride Fighting Championships. And it seams to me that there is way to many rules to it be considered a fight. Here are the rules that aply for both UFC and PFC;

1. Biting
3. Eye thumbing and eye gouging
4. Head butting
5. Attacking the groin
6. Pulling Hair
7. Pushing the windpipe with the thumb or finger (s) or squeezing the windpipe
8. Attacking the back of the head, the spine and/or the medulla (The back of the head is the centerline of the head and the area around the ears are not considered to be the back of the head.)
9. Using the elbows to attack the head or the face
   Grabbing the ropes and refuse to release the ropes and/or hanging the limbs of the body (hand(s), arm(s), leg(s) or feet) over the rope intentionally. A fighter who places his upper arm over the rope shall be given a caution immediately.
10. No kicking the legs or knees directly.

Frankly there is just too many rules. Hitting the groin and eye gouging and thunbing they should probably ban, but headbutting or kicking the legs? Why do they have to put so many rules. I'ts not a real fight with that many rules.

I agree with Marginal as far as the leg kicks go. They are still allowed. Pride is the only one that uses a ring, the rest are in a cage. Keep in mind, that the first UFC had even fewer rules than what you've listed here. Due to the politicians, who for a short time, got the UFC banned, the added rules were set in place in order for it to be able to be brought back. This discussion or something similar has been talked about before, and I'll say the same thing here. There is nothing saying that on the street, these same fighters couldnt do an eye gouge, hit the groin, etc. Sure, for the sport, they are training certain things, but it does not take a rocket scientist to do those strikes. Many of the MMA fighters come from a previous MA background, so doing those strikes as I said, wont take much thought.

Mike

 

[Cobra]

I agree with Marginal as far as the leg kicks go. They are still allowed. Pride is the only one that uses a ring, the rest are in a cage. Keep in mind, that the first UFC had even fewer rules than what you've listed here. Due to the politicians, who for a short time, got the UFC banned, the added rules were set in place in order for it to be able to be brought back. This discussion or something similar has been talked about before, and I'll say the same thing here. There is nothing saying that on the street, these same fighters couldnt do an eye gouge, hit the groin, etc. Sure, for the sport, they are training certain things, but it does not take a rocket scientist to do those strikes. Many of the MMA fighters come from a previous MA background, so doing those strikes as I said, wont take much thought.

Mike

I do agree eye attacks and and groin attacks should be ban, but other stuff seams more restricting like head butting.

Oh and as far as the rules go, I copied and pasted the rules from the Pride offical website. I actually couldn't get the whole rules either cause i ran out of room, but I added the kicking legs because in UFC, you can't kick them. You can in Pride, but the rules are pretty much the same except for the banning of leg kicks in UFC (go the official website of the sites, that is where I got the rules).

 

[deadhand31]

I think that when you have limitations, then it's not what you'd call a *REAL* fight. I think it becomes alot closer to a real fight, but when you set limitations, I don't consider it no holds barred anymore. In a real fight, I'm going to strike the throat. I'll kick to the groin. I'll blind them. Do I practice that way? No, but I'm taught to recognize openings when they exist. I say, in a real fight, there are no rules, so do what it takes to bring them down.

:asian:

 

[Cobra]

I think that when you have limitations, then it's not what you'd call a *REAL* fight. I think it becomes alot closer to a real fight, but when you set limitations, I don't consider it no holds barred anymore. In a real fight, I'm going to strike the throat. I'll kick to the groin. I'll blind them. Do I practice that way? No, but I'm taught to recognize openings when they exist. I say, in a real fight, there are no rules, so do what it takes to bring them down.

:asian:

I agree. People should learn how to block attacks which people might think as cheap. Well, atleast most things. Groin strikes seam a little too cheap. Eyes or the throat on the other hand you can block.

 

[Aegis]

I agree. People should learn how to block attacks which people might think as cheap. Well, atleast most things. Groin strikes seam a little too cheap. Eyes or the throat on the other hand you can block.

I would have no problem whatsoever with kicking/kneeing someone in the groin in a real fight. If someone starts on me, I'll use whatever skills I have INCLUDING all the cheap shots I can remember. They'd only have themselves to blame.

 

[MJS]

I do agree eye attacks and and groin attacks should be ban, but other stuff seams more restricting like head butting.

Oh and as far as the rules go, I copied and pasted the rules from the Pride offical website. I actually couldn't get the whole rules either cause i ran out of room, but I added the kicking legs because in UFC, you can't kick them. You can in Pride, but the rules are pretty much the same except for the banning of leg kicks in UFC (go the official website of the sites, that is where I got the rules).

Fouls:
Butting with the head.
Eye gouging of any kind.
Biting.
Hair pulling.
Fish hooking.
Groin attacks of any kind.
Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
Small joint manipulation.
Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
Grabbing the clavicle.
Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
Stomping a grounded opponent.
Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
Spitting at an opponent.
Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
Holding the ropes or the fence.
Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
Interference by the corner.
Throwing in the towel during competition.

The above are the UFC rules that I copied. I see nothing about kicks to the legs here. The below rules I copied from PRIDE. Again, nothing about leg kicks.


As defined by the Nevada State Commission USA
1. Butting with the head (could cause concussion for both opponents)
2. Eye gouging (any form of attack on the eyes could cause permanent loss of sight)
3. Biting (causes transfer of bacteria)
4. Hair Pulling (Unfair leverage advantage)
5. Fish Hooking (can cause permanent damage or lacerations to sensitive areas)
6. Groin attacks of any kind (can cause prostrate cancer or hernias)
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent (spreads infection and bacteria)
8. Small joint manipulation (can cause permanent damage of weakened joints)
9. Striking to the spine or back of the head (can cause permanent spinal damage)
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow (can cause serious lacerations)
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea (can cause asphyxiation)
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh (causes unnecessary lacerations)
13. Grabbing the clavicle (damage to the clavicle can cause respiratory problems)
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent (can cause permanent head injury and brain trauma
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent (as in question 14))
16. Stomping a grounded opponent (can cause unnecessary organ damage and or injury)
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel (as in question 16)
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck (can cause neck and spinal damage)
19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area (unnecessary damage as a result of fall or landing)
20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent (unfair leverage advantage)
21. Spitting at an opponent (transfer of bacteria and or temporary blindness)
22. Engaging in an unsports-man-like conduct that causes an injury to an opponent (standards must be set out to maintain the quality of the promotion and the sport.)
23. Holding the ropes or the fence (unfair leverage)
24. Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area (as in question 22)
25. Attacking the opponent on or during the break (as in question 22)
26. Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee (opponent not being in a position to defend himself and or as in question 22)
27. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of fighting (as in question 26)
28. Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee (as in question 26)
29. Timidly, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury (as in question 22)
30. Interference by the corner (as in question 22)
31. Throwing in the towel during competition (can cause distraction to the official)
Both the Nevada State athletic commission and Zuffa owners of the UFC approve these rules. These rules are set in place to protect fighters and fans, to keep the action going and to maintain the quality of the promotion and the sport.

 

[MJS]

In the first UFC, there were alot less rules. Also, if you'll notice, the name of the sport was changed from NHB to MMA. If you also look at boxing, you'll notice that there are rules in that sport as well. Again, keep in mind folks, that is it a sport!!!! There are ALOT less rules in MMA than you'll ever find in any martial arts school. Again, I'll also say, that many of these fighters have a previous MA background, so doing a groin kick or eye gouge might not be as unfamiliar to them as some might think!

Mike

 

[clapping_tiger]

7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent (spreads infection and bacteria)

I don't even want to know.

I don't think eye attacks should be allowed. My God, you could blind someone real easy. Just because they could block it doesn't mean it should be allowed. I think in terms of the leg kicks, I don't know what is meant by direct kicks to the legs, but the knees makes sense. Like stated above, the UFC and PFC are still sports, they are no longer billed as the brutal fights they were in the early 90's. Things have had to change to bring the sport mainstream. You should read the book "Brawl" if you are interested in the way MMA has changed from the start, to what we see today.

 

[MJS]

I don't even want to know.

:boing2: Neither do I!! I would think though that they're referring to the mouth.

I don't think eye attacks should be allowed. My God, you could blind someone real easy. Just because they could block it doesn't mean it should be allowed. I think in terms of the leg kicks, I don't know what is meant by direct kicks to the legs, but the knees makes sense. Like stated above, the UFC and PFC are still sports, they are no longer billed as the brutal fights they were in the early 90's. Things have had to change to bring the sport mainstream. You should read the book "Brawl" if you are interested in the way MMA has changed from the start, to what we see today.

Good post, and thanks for the reply! :asian:

As for the leg kicks....the majority of the kicks to the leg that you'll see and they Thai style kicks done to the side of the leg. Royce Gracie used to throw what appeared to be a front kick, but in reality, it was mearly a 'feeler' or 'probe' kick. He used that to judge his distance from his opp. and then, when close enough, shoot in for a takedown.

Mike

 

[Sapper6]

from the looks of all those rules posted above, UFC & Pride are nothing more than a game of glorified grab-***.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

from the looks of all those rules posted above, UFC & Pride are nothing more than a game of glorified grab-***.

Yeah, right. And the Geneva Convention makes war a game of tiddly-winks.

 

[MJS]

from the looks of all those rules posted above, UFC & Pride are nothing more than a game of glorified grab-***.

Actually, it takes alot to get into the ring and fight like that. If you think its so easy, why dont you enter??

Mike

 

[Sapper6]

to OFK & MJS:

first off, my post is MY OWN ANSWER to the title if the topic. you guys may want to re-read the title: "UFC and Pride Rules.....Is it a real fight?" i answered in my own opinion, no, it's not a "real fight". how the hell can you expect it to be...? with all the rules imposed upon the fighters, it's just not a fight. what would you call it? maybe i shouldnt have called it "glorified grab-***". perhaps "kick, slap, & punch to the face & stomach" contest would have been more relevent.

@ OFK:

nice analogy. im not saying all those things in the rules don't happen. but surely the fighter would be DQ'd if it did happen, hence, not making it a "real-fight".

@ MJS:

i never said it was easy. i'm sure it does take alot of work to prepare for it. why don't i jump in & try it? i'll keep that in mind the next time i desire to roll around with a big fat sweaty guy in speedos. also, unfortunately for this method of fighting, i take my martial arts much more seriously than that. i train for survival. the only prize i train to fight for is my life, not an oversized weight-lifters belt worn backward clad in fake gold. besides, seeing all those rules imposed in the matches, i'd be DQ'd in a matter of seconds.

i will admit, i was a fan of the UFC when it 1st made it's appearance back in the early 90's. if you guys can't remember, thats when the competitors actually faught with & exhibited the style of martial arts they claimed, IE: the Gracies. the Gracies wore the Gi, not the speedo. the Gracies used their art to win, not a bunch of bar-fighter tactics like seen today.

it may seem like i repeated myself alot in this post, and i did. you see, my method of posting is to take a look at the title of the post, and give my opinion, that's it. i'll never aim to get into a heated flaming contest over anything as petty as a forum topic. i will state my opinion only. i can't speak for the rest of you, but only hope that you do the same... :idunno:

 

[MJS]

to OFK & MJS:

first off, my post is MY OWN ANSWER to the title if the topic. you guys may want to re-read the title: "UFC and Pride Rules.....Is it a real fight?" i answered in my own opinion, no, it's not a "real fight". how the hell can you expect it to be...? with all the rules imposed upon the fighters, it's just not a fight. what would you call it? maybe i shouldnt have called it "glorified grab-***". perhaps "kick, slap, & punch to the face & stomach" contest would have been more relevent.

Personally, I cant believe that a debate like this is still going on! I mean, I think that in a previous post, I stated that it is a sport, and as such, it is gonna have rules. I also stated that many of the fighters come from a prior background, so if they got into a "real fight" i'm more than sure they'd defend themselves w/o a problem!


@ MJS:

i never said it was easy. i'm sure it does take alot of work to prepare for it. why don't i jump in & try it? i'll keep that in mind the next time i desire to roll around with a big fat sweaty guy in speedos. also, unfortunately for this method of fighting, i take my martial arts much more seriously than that. i train for survival. the only prize i train to fight for is my life, not an oversized weight-lifters belt worn backward clad in fake gold. besides, seeing all those rules imposed in the matches, i'd be DQ'd in a matter of seconds.

Well, these guys take their activity just as serious as a boxer, football player, basketball player, and even you. As for being DQ'd...well, read my above post.

i will admit, i was a fan of the UFC when it 1st made it's appearance back in the early 90's. if you guys can't remember, thats when the competitors actually faught with & exhibited the style of martial arts they claimed, IE: the Gracies. the Gracies wore the Gi, not the speedo. the Gracies used their art to win, not a bunch of bar-fighter tactics like seen today.

The reason they no longer wear the gi is due to the fact that it can be used against the person wearing it. Sure the guy wearing it has techs. he can use too, but why give the opp. another weapon to use? And if you'll notice, two of the other Gracies, Renzo and Ralph wear the speedo. I'll give you the fact that there are a few brawlers in there with little to no skill, but I'd say that there are more with skill than without.

Mike

 

[Sapper6]

Personally, I cant believe that a debate like this is still going on! I mean, I think that in a previous post, I stated that it is a sport, and as such, it is gonna have rules. I also stated that many of the fighters come from a prior background, so if they got into a "real fight" i'm more than sure they'd defend themselves w/o a problem!



Well, these guys take their activity just as serious as a boxer, football player, basketball player, and even you. As for being DQ'd...well, read my above post.



The reason they no longer wear the gi is due to the fact that it can be used against the person wearing it. Sure the guy wearing it has techs. he can use too, but why give the opp. another weapon to use? And if you'll notice, two of the other Gracies, Renzo and Ralph wear the speedo. I'll give you the fact that there are a few brawlers in there with little to no skill, but I'd say that there are more with skill than without.

Mike

i agree with you there...it is a sport, and should be treated as such. and with many of them having prior MA backgrounds, i'm quite sure they would be able to defend themselves on the street. what gets me is seeing these guys go into the ring/octagon touting "20 or whatever years in kung-fu", or hearing "our next contender has 17 years in Goju-Ryu", blah, blah, blah...when the bell sounds, all i see is wild haymakers & sloppy wheel kicks, which by the way, something that isnt taught or learned in the dojo, but rather, can be learned Saturday nights at the local tavern. aside from the Muay Thai guys, regardless if these fighters are skilled martial artists or not, they are NOT using MA fundamentals in the ring.

last but not least, i despise the fact that martial artists & non MA'ists alike crack this style of competition up to be a "display of the arts". im sorry, it's not, period. maybe my definition & outlook on MA, Karate, or whatever is different from everyone elses, i dont know, just the way i feel. they bring two fighters together...take away the uniform of the arts (Gi), take way their weapons & striking methods of the arts, take away all the favorite targets martial artists love to aim for, and still have the nerve to call it a martial arts event... :idunno:

im done...thanks for reading :asian:

 

[MJS]

i agree with you there...it is a sport, and should be treated as such. and with many of them having prior MA backgrounds, i'm quite sure they would be able to defend themselves on the street. what gets me is seeing these guys go into the ring/octagon touting "20 or whatever years in kung-fu", or hearing "our next contender has 17 years in Goju-Ryu", blah, blah, blah...when the bell sounds, all i see is wild haymakers & sloppy wheel kicks, which by the way, something that isnt taught or learned in the dojo, but rather, can be learned Saturday nights at the local tavern. aside from the Muay Thai guys, regardless if these fighters are skilled martial artists or not, they are NOT using MA fundamentals in the ring.

last but not least, i despise the fact that martial artists & non MA'ists alike crack this style of competition up to be a "display of the arts". im sorry, it's not, period. maybe my definition & outlook on MA, Karate, or whatever is different from everyone elses, i dont know, just the way i feel. they bring two fighters together...take away the uniform of the arts (Gi), take way their weapons & striking methods of the arts, take away all the favorite targets martial artists love to aim for, and still have the nerve to call it a martial arts event... :idunno:

im done...thanks for reading :asian:

Well, its a shame that you feel that way. I wish that there was a way that I could have you see these events in a different light, but I guess that is not possible. As for it being a display of the arts....In the first UFC, that is exactly what it was, a display. You had many different arts all pitted against each other. The fighters were representing THEIR art! The probelm occurred when the fighters realized that being a one style fighter was not bringing the success. They then adopted a boxing, Muay Thai, or grappling background, and THAT is what they represent now. Just because they dont walk around and say that they have done Kung Fu for 15 yrs, but all you see in the ring is BJJ, does NOT mean that there are not concepts still being used in the ring, or that they dont train it on their own time. As for the Gi..well, like I stated to you, it can be used against the fighter wearing it. Its really no different than wearing a regular jacket. The chokes can be applied with a coat just as easy as the Gi. As for taking away the tools that they can use...ok, let me throw this bone out at you. Take a sparring tournament. You talk about rules...let me tell ya my friend, there ARE MANY MORE rules in those than you'll EVER see in the UFC. Fighters need to wear full gear, the UFC only reqs. the gloves, mouth piece, and cup. No kicking below the belt, the UFC can kick to the legs..a no-no in sport Karate. I could go on, but its not worth it. The fact of the matter is, is that even in those events, tools are being taken away.

Thanks for the reply. If you feel that you'd rather continue this discussion in a more private setting, please feel free to PM me at any time. If not, well, thats cool too. Thanks for the chat.

Mike

 

[Sapper6]

Well, its a shame that you feel that way. I wish that there was a way that I could have you see these events in a different light, but I guess that is not possible. As for it being a display of the arts....In the first UFC, that is exactly what it was, a display. You had many different arts all pitted against each other. The fighters were representing THEIR art! The probelm occurred when the fighters realized that being a one style fighter was not bringing the success. They then adopted a boxing, Muay Thai, or grappling background, and THAT is what they represent now. Just because they dont walk around and say that they have done Kung Fu for 15 yrs, but all you see in the ring is BJJ, does NOT mean that there are not concepts still being used in the ring, or that they dont train it on their own time. As for the Gi..well, like I stated to you, it can be used against the fighter wearing it. Its really no different than wearing a regular jacket. The chokes can be applied with a coat just as easy as the Gi. As for taking away the tools that they can use...ok, let me throw this bone out at you. Take a sparring tournament. You talk about rules...let me tell ya my friend, there ARE MANY MORE rules in those than you'll EVER see in the UFC. Fighters need to wear full gear, the UFC only reqs. the gloves, mouth piece, and cup. No kicking below the belt, the UFC can kick to the legs..a no-no in sport Karate. I could go on, but its not worth it. The fact of the matter is, is that even in those events, tools are being taken away.

Thanks for the reply. If you feel that you'd rather continue this discussion in a more private setting, please feel free to PM me at any time. If not, well, thats cool too. Thanks for the chat.

Mike

hey, no problem Mike. it was good chattin w/ you about this. yeah, i probably do have a little different view than most others. about the methods of fighting in the ring/octagon, that is just what I perceive. i honestly dont expect others to concur. as for tournament sparring, i totally agree with you there. rules, rules, rules. i dont like rules, and precisely the reason i dont engage in point/tournament/competition fighting of any kind. i personally cant find it feasible to train MYSELF to not strike certain spots on the body, etc. that's just me though. the next time i find myself in a predicament on the street or anyplace, i will execute to the fullest to see to it that i walk away...that's the only rule i train by.

thanks again for the conversation :asian: