Uechi-ryu Question

[arnisador]

I assume that these are typically formed for pecuniary reasons.

But I've often heard that when Tatsuo Shimabuku formed Isshin-ryu he "followed tradition" by appealing to other (grand)masters for permission to form his art and their approval of him as a new head of system--that he felt he needed to do that to form a new style. The story is that he did a demo. for them and spoke with them and they conferred and in essence granted him the right/distinction of being a head of a system.

I haven't heard it of any other founder so I am a bit suspicious, but is there any such precedent? Whether or not it was true of Isshin-ryu is somewhat incidental.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by arnisador

I assume that these are typically formed for pecuniary reasons.

But I've often heard that when Tatsuo Shimabuku formed Isshin-ryu he "followed tradition" by appealing to other (grand)masters for permission to form his art and their approval of him as a new head of system--that he felt he needed to do that to form a new style.

I have never heard that story. I have heard that he formed his own style and pissed some people off.
Who knows what the real story is, I don't. I wasn't there.
I would be interested in who he gave this supposed demo for though.

Originally posted by arnisador

I haven't heard it of any other founder so I am a bit suspicious, but is there any such precedent? Whether or not it was true of Isshin-ryu is somewhat incidental.

I know of several "dan factories" in Japan that sell dan ranks in this manner but they don't sell "Soke" certificates.
In fact if some one was to come over here with a Soke certificate from one of those Soke Council things they would be laughed right out of town.
Lofty belt ranks (i.e. 9th, 10th dan), Soke-ships, and other bloated titles from young western martial arts people are the reason why many asian instructors have little or no respect for them. The reason being they don't know what the titles really mean, and haven't put in the time to earn the rank.
To be quite honest, in Japan I have not met that many Karateka, Judoka, Kendoka or Aikidoka that have ranks over 7th dan. The ones that are ranked over 7th dan are usually senior citizens.

 

[tamiko]

crbmwdn:

I see you have asked some questions about Uechi-ryu. I have studied this style for a few years and wondered if I could help with any questions you might have. I don't particularly wish to discuss politics (I'm not a politician) but if I can answer any other questions I would be please to do so.

 

[arnisador]

To crbnwdn: Did you ever start Uechi-ryu?

To tamiko: Which of the subsystems/organizations of Uechi-ryu do you study?

 

[tamiko]

Hello Arnisador. I am a member of the IUKF (International Uechi-ryu Karate Federation) and I study Uechi-ryu. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "sub-system or organization of Uechi-ryu". Could you give more clarification or let me know if I've answered your question? Thanks.

 

[arnisador]

I know that Uechi-ryu has experienced some splintering--Pangainoon-ryu, Shohei-ryu--and wondered if you were in one of those.

 

[tamiko]

Arnisador, no, I am not affiliated with any splinter groups. My dojo traces its lineage directly back to Okinawa under the direction of the founder of Uechi-ryu, Kanbun Uechi.

I have made many friends all over the world who are in different sub-sets of Uechi-ryu We have developed a respect for each other regardless of our sub-sets or affiliations. I've found that we all seem to share a deep fulfillment and enjoyment from the study of MA, regardless of organization or rank or style.

I think a lot of organizations experience splintering (and for many reasons). Personally, I just like to work out and learn - not really interested in the politics. When you're sweating it out in class somehow that doesn't seem so important.

 

[Reprobate]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
As a former student of the style I am rather familiar with the history of it.
Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu as I stated above is the oldest "documented" sword school.
The Kashima Shinto Ryu school is actually considered by many to be the oldest........they just can't prove it because of the lack of "documentation".

As a current student, I can tell you that the TSKSR is not the oldest because it registered earlier than the other schools. The documented fact is that the founder of Kashima Shinto Ryu trained under the founder of Katori Shinto Ryu.

They do use other weapons but don't teach them per say.
Other weapons are only used as to practice sword techniques against them and are not taught "battle usage" as with the sword.
For example they do not train bo vs naginata or any other combination of weapons, it is always sword vs some other weapon. The training is done in 2 man kata sets. Each person has certain moves and strikes and are done for each weapon attacking a swordsman. All the kata consist of sword vs bo, naginata and so on.
Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu also teaches "numeral divination" and some other odd things.

-students are taught the handling of the bo and naginata prior to performing kata against sword. Profisciency would be adequate for 'battle usage'.
-there are 4 omote kenjutsu kata, 6 omote bo kata and 4 omote naginata kata. Beginners have to learn more bo kata than kenjutsu kata and an equal number of naginata kata.
-advanced pupils are taught bo versus bo kata. These kata are not generally shown to beginners or at demonstrations.
-numeral divination is not taught

 

[angrywhitepajamas]

Tamiko,
amen about the "subsect and rank".

Are there any IUKF schools in california??

 

[Charles Mahan]

Originally posted by crbnwdn
I am thinking of beginning to study with a Dojo that teaches the Uechi-ryu style Karate, along with Iaido and Aikido. Is there anyone studying the Uechi-ryu style who could share with me its charateristics and how it compares with other styles of Karate or Kung Fu. Below are suppose to be the credentials of the Sensei for both the Uechi-ryu and Iaido classes.


I teach Muso Jikiden Eishinryu Iaido, in which I am a nanadan (7th degree "black belt",instructor) and have studied for 20 years, 10 of which were in Japan under swordmaster, Noboru Yamashita; and Uechiryu karate, in which I am a godan (5th degree black belt) and have studied for 33 years, one of which was under the great master, Seiyu Shinjo.


Any cooments are appreciated.


Thank you.

I have trained with Ray-sensei for more than 6 years. Ray-sensei is indeed a Nandan Kyoshi in MJER Iaido. I have had the good fortune of training with several of Ray-sensei's sempai from the Chiba dojo at various seminars in Denton. A few years ago about 8 of our students accompanied Ray-sensei to Chiba, Japan for an extended training trip. They were scheduled for a private training session with Fukui-soke, who unfortunately passed away a couple of months before the trip.

I have also had the oppurtunity to train with the Vice President of the Zen Nippon Iaido Renmei in California this past 4th of July weekend. Ray-sensei is quite thoroughly legit. Feel free to enquire at http://www.e-budo.com in the sword arts forum. This is perhaps the largest collection o koryu sword folks online.

As for Uechi, I don't know that much about that side of things as I'm not in that class. I do know that Ray-sensei tested for 5th dan in Okinawa during the same trip that I mentioned above. I believe all his shodan candidates are tested by a representative from Okinawa. For more info I suggest you check the dojo website at http://www.dentondojo.com

 

[arnisador]

From here:

the 4 associations of Uechi-ryu: Kenyukai, Soke (IUKF), Shohei-ryu and Pangai-noon karate-do. Each one offers just a tad bit of a different perspective to the 8 kata that make up Uechi-ryu.

A Uechi-ryu page:
http://uechi.layer-7.de/perl-bin/createHTML.perl?TXT=index&LANG=de&FRAME=

Uechiryu Karate since 1942 has grown faster than any other art of Karate in Okinawa.

 

[arnisador]

Here's a Uechi site with fora and articles:
http://www.uechiryu.ca/