U.K Police Shoot to Kill......

[Knarfan]

I am doing my best to keep an eye out for these protests the muslim community are talking about,mainly becuase I want to see just exactly what they are protesting about.
The most common thread I have seen these people is,and I am quoting word for word the most common reason given so far,:

"Terrorists are completely wrong in there endeavor.The killing of innocent people is not the way of islam and it is making the rest of us look bad.
BUT......
we will NEVER sellout our muslim brothers to a western society".

Ok.Fine.
Then police your own.
Oh wait......
Muslims are not allowed to "turn against" other muslims,especially for something as minor for killing the "infedels". caws it sez so in da ko'ron!

If WE can police our own,they damn well can do the same thing!

It sounds to me that many of these Muslims who are protesting against the terrorist are missing the big picture . On one hand they want to clear their good names by saying the terrorist acts are wrong , but on the other hand they consider these scum bag MUSLIM TERRORIST their brothers & they won't sell out their MUSLIM BROTHERS !!! If these so called MAJORITY MUSLIMS took their heads out of their asses for five minutes they would realize that the minute these scum bags kill innocent people , thats when they sould be DISOWED by the honorable MUSLIMS & sold out to what ever athorities are trying to stop this nonsense !!! weather it be westerners or any other decent HUMAN BEING !!!! CHILDREN NEED DICIPLINE! Not instructions on how to build a BOMB ! Everybody is entitaled to their opinions , but we really need to stop making excuses for these FREAKS ! The Muslim community is going to have to use alot more imagination & common sense & forget about the political agenda for five minutes ! Total disregard for the lives of your HUMAN brothers & sisters is the issue here ! So either start selling out or shut the "F" up ! Oh yeah , one more thing . If I hurt anyones feelings or offended anyone , that is not my intention . Look on the bright side , nobody got killed .

 

[Flatlander]

Mod Warning:

The generalizations occurring in this thread regarding Muslims are unsupportable, erroneous, and may be considered offensive by some. Please refrain from racial or religeous generalizations, as they will not be tolerated.

-Dan Bowman-
-MT Moderator-

 

[Knarfan]

Understood . Could you please remove my post ? I lost the edit . My apologies to all who take offense to my comments .


Thanks .

 

[Knarfan]

Mod Warning:

The generalizations occurring in this thread regarding Muslims are unsupportable, erroneous, and may be considered offensive by some. Please refrain from racial or religeous generalizations, as they will not be tolerated.

-Dan Bowman-
-MT Moderator-

If the insinuation is as stated above , I am requesting for the second time that my post in question be removed from the board or give me the edit option back & I will do it . I had not intended it to be either a racial or religeous generalization . I do admit that my post was over the top & done in poor taste . More of an angry & insensitive reaction .

Thanks again .

 

[sgtmac_46]

I apologize if I discussed an apparently tabboo topic in a non-politically correct manner. It will not occurr again. To anyone who was offended, my most sincere and humble apologies.

 

[arnisador]

From any group, there are good examples and bad examples. Without statistics, generalizing is very difficult! I appreciate sayoc FF reconsidering his statement. While there are surely people to whom those comments apply, there are also others being tarred with too broad a brush.

 

[Dan G]

Was the person who was chased and shot to death a terrorist? I didn't see any reports on who he was or what he was wanted for. I didn't realize that shooting a suspect was better than taking him or her into custody and hopefully finding out what it is that they know - unless they are ready to blow themselves up, of course.

You asked the right question, and sadly it now looks like you were right to have done so.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4711021.stm

Dan

 

[sgtmac_46]

You asked the right question, and sadly it now looks like you were right to have done so.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4711021.stm

Dan

There's another thread on that topic in and of itself. The mistake in that situation appears to have been on the part of the guy who got himself shot.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

There's another thread on that topic in and of itself. The mistake in that situation appears to have been on the part of the guy who got himself shot.

Yes, it appears so. The loss of life is very unfortunate, but, given the circumstances, I don't know what the UK Police could have done differently. Whatever caused this young man to panic - his death is on the TERRORIST'S heads not the London Police's or even his own. He is one more casualty of these murdering criminals (the terrorists).

I have Muslim aquaintances who are horrified at the acts of the Islamic terrorists. In fact, one friend pointed out that a terrorist victory would be a disaster for the Muslim world as they (the terrorists) mean to subjugate first the Muslim peoples and return their societies to the darkest days of the Middle Ages. If you follow the Middle Eastern situation in general and the situation with the foreign fighters in Iraq in particular - the first people killed by these terrorist thugs are moderate muslims. Many Muslim doctors are being murdered right now in Iraq by Islamic terrorists. So, as the Moderators pointed out, generalizations are GROSSLY UNFAIR.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Yes, it appears so. The loss of life is very unfortunate, but, given the circumstances, I don't know what the UK Police could have done differently. Whatever caused this young man to panic - his death is on the TERRORIST'S heads not the London Police's or even his own. He is one more casualty of these murdering criminals (the terrorists).

I have Muslim aquaintances who are horrified at the acts of the Islamic terrorists. In fact, one friend pointed out that a terrorist victory would be a disaster for the Muslim world as they (the terrorists) mean to subjugate first the Muslim peoples and return their societies to the darkest days of the Middle Ages. If you follow the Middle Eastern situation in general and the situation with the foreign fighters in Iraq in particular - the first people killed by these terrorist thugs are moderate muslims. Many Muslim doctors are being murdered right now in Iraq by Islamic terrorists. So, as the Moderators pointed out, generalizations are GROSSLY UNFAIR.

As I pointed out earlier, it is not my belief that all muslims are terrorists. I merely pointed out that a large minority have allowed themselves to be hijacked by radical religious scholars and terrorist recruiters. This is not an indictment of the worlds 1 Billion muslims, but it is clear that more of a problem exists than we are prepared to handle. There are several muslims that agree that their voices have been hijacked by the minority of extremists. Sheik Muhammad Hisham Kabbani stated as much himself. Though his explaination that most peaceful muslims don't want to be political activists, but simply want to be left in peace to pray and live their lives, is a revealing and understandable one.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear from the beginning. My issue is with the minority of muslims who are spreading wahhabist rhetoric within the US and Europe, and recruiting young muslims as cannon fodder in a holy war. They exist, and they exist in greater numbers than we are willing to accept. The peaceful muslims of the world are our friends. But they need to take back their voice from this dangerous minority.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

As I pointed out earlier, it is not my belief that all muslims are terrorists. I merely pointed out that a large minority have allowed themselves to be hijacked by radical religious scholars and terrorist recruiters. This is not an indictment of the worlds 1 Billion muslims, but it is clear that more of a problem exists than we are prepared to handle. There are several muslims that agree that their voices have been hijacked by the minority of extremists. Sheik Muhammad Hisham Kabbani stated as much himself. Though his explaination that most peaceful muslims don't want to be political activists, but simply want to be left in peace to pray and live their lives, is a revealing and understandable one.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear from the beginning. My issue is with the minority of muslims who are spreading wahhabist rhetoric within the US and Europe, and recruiting young muslims as cannon fodder in a holy war. They exist, and they exist in greater numbers than we are willing to accept. The peaceful muslims of the world are our friends. But they need to take back their voice from this dangerous minority.

Agreed.

My heart goes out to the family of this young man who was killed. Again, his death is on the head's of the terrorists. He is one more victim of their murderous rampage. It is an UNMITIGATED tragedy not only for his family but also the United Kingdom as a whole and the police themselves who, apparently, had every reason to believe that they were acting to save lives.

My prayers go out to the people of the United Kingdom.

 

[Corporal Hicks]

I wouldn't put this man as being innocent yet, something is fishy about this entire thing! I was watching the media responses to what he was,
Firstly = Terrorist shot
Secondly = May have not been Terrorist (inquiring investigations)
Thirdly = Resting on apparently innocent
Fourthly = Probably terrorist
Fifthy = Innocent

Ok maybe I'm wrong but I've never seen the media chop and change so much, I cannot really explain it but it was the way that different channels presenters where merging the stories and then changing their facts back and forth changing them every update, but not in the usual way or discovering new facts and evidence but it a way to me as though the were not sure, even if they have been manipulated!

Well, if he is innocent it is a great tradegy as from the police point of view I would have done the same thing (from a distance), there is man running away from you, towards a tube station wearing a bulky coat (bomb maybe?) (two choices, is he running to escape on the tube, or to detonate a bomb), you call for him to stop or you will shot (two choices the man either stops, or not, he should if he heard the warning, if he was running for a minor offence or if he was innocent he would have known that it was not worth being killed, countering this if he was truely scared he would not have listened), you give chase,
he heads towards the tube, you have a last chance with two choices, you either,
Do not shoot, the man could be saved if innocent, or he could detonate killing many people as previously done the day before OR
you can shoot, killing maybe an innoncent man (who is running???) and saving many lives.

What would you choose?

Ok that was quite a biased example and could maybe used however there is one serious problem that needs to be examined!

The 'innocent' guy was shot 5 times in the head with an automatic pistol whilst being supposedly pinned down. He fell before he was shot, but I doubt anybody can shoot a falling body from a distance with a pistol so what the hell happened? Being the media and some aspects hidden what was going on? The police kill a man at point blank with a pistol, five times in the head? Thats what puzzles me?

 

[michaeledward]

The news reports I have heard ....

A Brazilian National was shot to death by plain-clothed police officers. On another thread, someone said that if a police officer tells you to ... blah, blah, blah.

I wonder if Mr. Brazil spoke any English at at all? Someone starts yelling at you in a foreign voice, waving a gun, I might run away too?

Of course, it's all speculation on this end.


P.S. ... just read a bbc news report. Apparently, Mr. Brazil jumped the turnstyle gain entrance to the Tube; that must justify everything.

 

[sgtmac_46]

The news reports I have heard ....

A Brazilian National was shot to death by plain-clothed police officers. On another thread, someone said that if a police officer tells you to ... blah, blah, blah.

I wonder if Mr. Brazil spoke any English at at all? Someone starts yelling at you in a foreign voice, waving a gun, I might run away too?

Of course, it's all speculation on this end.


P.S. ... just read a bbc news report. Apparently, Mr. Brazil jumped the turnstyle gain entrance to the Tube; that must justify everything.

Of course, again, your premise rests on the psychic ability of the London police to read the gentleman's mind and figure out that he isn't running because he wants to blow up large numbers of innocent people, he's running because he doesn't speak english.

Now, lets put this in perspective. You and your family are a hundred yards down the subway line, watching this event transpire. The gentleman in question is running TOWARD you, currently in a lightly occupied area of the station, but he's heading toward a crowded area and you. The police are chasing him. They believe he is a suicide bomber. At what point do you want the police to make the decision to shoot him? 100 yards away, 50 yards, 10 yards, or never? Do you want them to give every suicide bombing suspect acting this way the benefit of the doubt?

 

[Tgace]

Easy answer for some people who like to armchair quaterback. Hard choices for those who's job it is to make them.

 

[arnisador]

Hard choices for anyone who has only seconds to make a decision.

 

[Tgace]

I also think insinuating that these officers felt justified in shooting a man because he jumped a turnstyle typical passive aggressive liberal ********. But Im sure the poster has nothing but the highest regard for law enforcement. :shrug:

 

[sgtmac_46]

I also think insinuating that these officers felt justified in shooting a man because he jumped a turnstyle typical passive aggressive liberal ********. But Im sure the poster has nothing but the highest regard for law enforcement. :shrug:

I'm sure you're right.

 

[Knarfan]

I also think insinuating that these officers felt justified in shooting a man because he jumped a turnstyle typical passive aggressive liberal ********. But Im sure the poster has nothing but the highest regard for law enforcement.

The cops are the good guys here aren't they ? Or is that status lost because of a case of mistaken identity . Under the circumstances which exist & the reaction of the unfortunate victim , the officers may have had no choice & therefore are justified . Their job is to protect & to serve . The way that i see it is that these officers are acting & leading their lives based on a high moral code . Thay go to work day in & day out putting it on the line trying to help people . They deserve the benefit of the doubt & respect for there efforts . weather they made a mistake or not & I'm not so sure that they made a mistake regarding the way that they carried out their duty . I believe they carried out their duty to the best of their abilities under the worst conditions . Obviously the loss of an innocent young mans life is the worst kind of tragedy , but these things aren't always black & white . Terrorism creates a deep phsycological effect on all of society .

:asian: FF

 

[Marginal]

I also think insinuating that these officers felt justified in shooting a man because he jumped a turnstyle typical passive aggressive liberal ********. But Im sure the poster has nothing but the highest regard for law enforcement. :shrug:

Expressing concern over a blatant bungle means you hate law enforcement? Smacks of nonsense similar to that of "If you criticize the Iraq war or the president, then you are happy to see US troops have their heads sawed off." Baseless vitriol.

Do you think all cops really deserve a blank check? That any hint of demanding accountability means you despise anyone in a uniform?