Turning on Heels?

[KabutoKouji]

as a slight aside, Yang Jwing Ming thinks that a lot of the times when the rear foot is supposed to pivot on it's heel traditionally in what we practice does not suit Western and/or longer legs.

 

[KabutoKouji]

I'm trying to think of any movement that involves turning the hips forward explosively in which I would want my back heel on the ground. From a Taekwondo perspective, I can't think of any.

I really noticed this when I wore my old (Hayashi) TKD shoes to Longfist class once, and the heel area of those shoes was so thin and so biased towards always pivoting on your toes, that I found it very difficult to do a lot of transitionary stances etc., to the extent that I had to change back into my Feiyues after about 10 minutes of class. I had originally wanted to wear my older shoes as Feiyues on jigsaw mats are SOO grippy I was finding it difficult to pivot sometimes, but even with the much 'slippier' soles on the Hayashis, I went back to the Feiyues as the narrow heel thing was too much.

 

[geezer]

In WC, initiating any pivoting and turning actually comes from your waist, so whether its heels or balls of feet, it shouldn't matter much as the power comes from your hips, but you probably have better structure if you do it on your heels as you have a stronger central axis and can control your opponent better in close range fighting. In Chum kiu, all that turning power is from the hips/waist. This was the way one sifu in Hong Kong explained it anyway.

I'm curious about which branch of WC you trained. I can see how this might be a good way to visualize power generation in certain lineages, but not so much in what we do (VT coming out of the WT lineage).

We turn on the center of the foot, one foot at a time and visualize the turn beginning with the rotation of the knee --much like thinking of bong sau being rotated by the elbow when working the hands. The hip is important and ads great power, but the alternating adduction of the knees is where our turn originates. See below at 21:00 - 22:30.

 

[wckf92]

Personally, I don't see how turning on the toes/balls/front of foot does anything.
I turn on the heels, initiating in the waist/core. Depending on weight distribution front to back and side to side will determine what one gets from this method of shifting.
Either way, both turning methods are in the first form...take your pic and train the heck out of it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I turn on the heels,

If you train "foot sweep", you will never turn on your heel. There is a good reason that CMA has the "虚步 (Xu Bu) - empty stance". When you sweep that leading leg, your foot will go under his foot and won't be able to catch on his ankle.

Why do you even want to give your opponent a chance to sweep you?

 

[wckf92]

If you train "foot sweep", you will never turn on your heel. There is a good reason that CMA has the "虚步 (Xu Bu) - empty stance". When you sweep that leading leg, your foot will go under his foot and won't be able to catch on his ankle.

Why do you even want to give your opponent a chance to sweep you?

Perhaps, perhaps not. But, we are discussing heels vs ball or front vs back etc.
Turning on the front part of the foot has its place...just like turning on the heels does. I think it depends on the how & why one trains this turning stance.
Honestly, I'd have to visit and train with someone that turns near the front of the foot in order to compare/contrast etc.
One of these days I'll swing by the Boston Gulao/Kulo/Pin Sun guys place and see for myself. I'm pretty sure the videos I've seen of them they are turning on the ball of the foot.

Why do you even want to give your opponent a chance to sweep you?

Why would anyone want to do this...regardless???

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

as a slight aside, Yang Jwing Ming thinks that a lot of the times when the rear foot is supposed to pivot on it's heel traditionally in what we practice does not suit Western and/or longer legs.

In the long fist system, the back foot always pivot on the toes. There is a good reason for that. You are ready to "spring" from it.

 

[Danny T]

Range and spatial relationship will dictate.
If you are dedicated to staying to a specific action no matter what happens you will be disappointed in the results.

 

[wckf92]

Range and spatial relationship will dictate..

Exactly.

 

[Danny T]

Train diligently for what may occur most of the time but train some for the what ifs and the oops.
They happen a lot more than most people think.

 

[KPM]

I'm pretty sure the videos I've seen of them they are turning on the ball of the foot.

Actually the K1 or "Bubbling Spring" acupuncture point. Or as close as possible. It is actually about an inch back from the ball and at the center of the foot. Saying that one pivots on the ball of the foot implies that you are also "up on the toes".....that your weight is forward, which is incorrect.

 

[KabutoKouji]

In the long fist system, the back foot always pivot on the toes. There is a good reason for that. You are ready to "spring" from it.

tbh I was actually thinking of a video of him talking about Yang Long Form TaiJiJuan, but I think it also applies to our White Crane, as I'm pretty sure there are times both heels were supposed to pivot in them

 

[Parky]

Personally, I don't see how turning on the toes/balls/front of foot does anything.
I turn on the heels, initiating in the waist/core. Depending on weight distribution front to back and side to side will determine what one gets from this method of shifting.
Either way, both turning methods are in the first form...take your pic and train the heck out of it.

This is how I turn too. Everything is initiated in the 'Core' or 'Center' and the feet follow...naturally. Generally speaking my weight is on the heels.