Tung Sheng Ch'ang

[DeLamar.J]

What I was wondering is, why people rarely, if ever, mention Grand Master Tung Sheng Ch'ang. He was one of the best proven martial artists in the world. And he was alive not to long ago. I actually know people who had a chance to train with him before he died, who are incredible martial artists, and say they would never stand a chance against Ch'ang, even 4 on 1.
It seems that most people I talk to have never even heard the name before. I just find it very odd that Grand Master Tung Sheng Ch'ang is not a household name in every martial arts school. Any comments on this? I know this is an odd post, but this is something that has bothered me for some time, and I just always wondered why. So I figured I would ask the knowledgeable folks at martial talk.

 

[TaiChiTJ]

I had the opportunity of meeting this gentleman at the Tai Chi legacy in Texas a few years ago. He studied extensively with GrandMaster Chang and now teaches in Texas.

I found him to be a real gentleman, and he helped my Tai Chi practice.

 

[TaiChiTJ]

Oops here is the link to the gentleman mentioned above:


http://www.taichiherb.com/index.php?fuseaction=martialarts.changtaichi

 

[DeLamar.J]

Did you know master Chang was the last undefeated champion in no rules fighting in china? He beat everyone in street fighting.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Tung Sheng Ch'ang

http://www.changshuaichiao.com/chang_tung_sheng.htm

Not that many people practice shuai chiao.

And to be honest there are several old Chinese masters of this caliber that no one knows about.

Many know Yang Chengfu but do not know Yang Shaohou or Yang Panhou.

And then there is Kuo Yunshen, Shang Yunhsiang and not many even in Tai Chi know Sun Lutang.

Many in old China were undefeated Champions if they taught or had a school. They were challenged quite often and if they lost, they lost a lot more than a fight.

(Sorry about switching between Wade Giles and Pinyin)

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Tung Sheng Ch'ang

http://www.changshuaichiao.com/chang_tung_sheng.htm

Not that many people practice shuai chiao.

And to be honest there are several old Chinese masters of this caliber that no one knows about.

Many know Yang Chengfu but do not know Yang Shaohou or Yang Panhou.

And then there is Kuo Yunshen, Shang Yunhsiang and not many even in Tai Chi know Sun Lutang.

Many in old China were undefeated Champions if they taught or had a school. They were challenged quite often and if they lost, they lost a lot more than a fight.

(Sorry about switching between Wade Giles and Pinyin)

My buddies and I used to refer to this as "the old man in the boat" syndrome. For every famous guy, there were a dozen of his classmates who never sought fame, became greats, but live low-key, under the radar. For every Bruce Lee making the front pages, there's an old man somewhere, sitting in a fishing boat, mending nets who would make the famous greats look silly by comparison.

Saw it in TCM, too. Lotsa guys making big names for themselves. If I wanted to know an insiders opinion on the vialbility of an idea, I would track down and ask someone from Hong Yen Hsu's family..Chau or Daniel. Quiet, humble, virtually unknown outside their own circles, yet rich with wisdom.

D.

 

[still learning]

Hello, There are many great martial artist around the world...that most people never heard of? This is common...go to any country and ask who are the best in martial arts...I'm sure you will not know their names or styles.

Do not be dispointed....I just learn about Misahiko Kimura (the Judo God)..from Black belt magazine. Haven't done Judo, but my son is on the High School Judo team..most of the kids...don't know the name either. Preworld war...consider the best in all of Japan(was a 5th degree as senior in High School...youngest to achieve that rank...Great reading...See BB magazine with Chuck Norris on the cover............Aloha

PS: Kimura use to train 9+hours a day and do about 1000 push-up everyday!

 

[DeLamar.J]

Tung Sheng Ch'ang

http://www.changshuaichiao.com/chang_tung_sheng.htm

Not that many people practice shuai chiao.

And to be honest there are several old Chinese masters of this caliber that no one knows about.

Many know Yang Chengfu but do not know Yang Shaohou or Yang Panhou.

And then there is Kuo Yunshen, Shang Yunhsiang and not many even in Tai Chi know Sun Lutang.

Many in old China were undefeated Champions if they taught or had a school. They were challenged quite often and if they lost, they lost a lot more than a fight.

(Sorry about switching between Wade Giles and Pinyin)

True, but there is only one undefeated champion in china at one time. Undefeated champion in full out fighting, versus all and any styles.
"There can be only one" Ha ha, I finally got to say it. But seriously, there is only one undefeated champion in china.

 

[Xue Sheng]

True, but there is only one undefeated champion in china at one time. Undefeated champion in full out fighting, versus all and any styles.
"There can be only one" Ha ha, I finally got to say it. But seriously, there is only one undefeated champion in china.

Actually there can be several undefeated champions in old China.

Understand China is huge and in old China traveling around it was not all that easy and at times not permitted so there can be multiple undefeated masters in multiple provinces throughout China. No one master fought all other masters in all of China in all Martial arts in China, particularly old China. And supposedly Yang Binhao, Yang Shouhao, and Yang Cheng fu are all undefeated as are the others I mentioned. It all depends on who challenged whom. There was no federation that was in charge of all fighting. And say someone is the Champion of China is simply not correct. Even if a master fought all over China it did not make him the Champion of China, just undefeated in all the fights that he had, However any undefeated master may be undefeated in Beijing, Harbin, Qingdao, Tianjin, Xian, Hebei and Heilongjiang but never fought in Hong Kong, Guangdong, Shanghai or Henan.

This does not mean they are not undefeated nor does it take away form the accomplishment, that is a large area to be Champion of, but it still does not mean that there is not another champion in China nor does it mean that there is not another Champion in the same area. There was no overseeing organization to keep track and it was done by a lot of personal challenges.

So, in this case at least, there can be more than one.

 

[barnaby]

www.shuai-chiao.org

http://www.mg-3d.com/index.html

these are strong shuai-chiao circuits in Northern California and Cleveland, OH, both from Ch'ang ancestry.

 

[pstarr]

Yes - we are aware of the ones whose names have been mentioned in books or even movies, but many of the greatest practitioners remain all but virtually unknown in this country. It's the same in karate as well-

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yes - we are aware of the ones whose names have been mentioned in books or even movies, but many of the greatest practitioners remain all but virtually unknown in this country. It's the same in karate as well-

Exactly

How many know Wang Xiangzhai, Che I Chai, or Cheng Tinghua.

There are famous Chinese martial artist we know about in the US and there are famous Chinese martial artist that they know about in China that we do not know and there are some that were very good that no one will ever know of at all.

And to make it just slightly more complicated they may know of a martial artist in China by a very different name than we know in the US for example Li Zhenfan and Li Lianjie

 

[HG1]

Actually there can be several undefeated champions in old China.

Understand China is huge and in old China traveling around it was not all that easy and at times not permitted so there can be multiple undefeated masters in multiple provinces throughout China. No one master fought all other masters in all of China in all Martial arts in China, particularly old China. And supposedly Yang Binhao, Yang Shouhao, and Yang Cheng fu are all undefeated as are the others I mentioned. It all depends on who challenged whom. There was no federation that was in charge of all fighting. And say someone is the Champion of China is simply not correct. Even if a master fought all over China it did not make him the Champion of China, just undefeated in all the fights that he had, However any undefeated master may be undefeated in Beijing, Harbin, Qingdao, Tianjin, Xian, Hebei and Heilongjiang but never fought in Hong Kong, Guangdong, Shanghai or Henan.

This does not mean they are not undefeated nor does it take away form the accomplishment, that is a large area to be Champion of, but it still does not mean that there is not another champion in China nor does it mean that there is not another Champion in the same area. There was no overseeing organization to keep track and it was done by a lot of personal challenges.

So, in this case at least, there can be more than one.

Well said.

Wong Fei Hung is another name that can be added to the list. He was undefeated in the Guandong area.

 

[Taijiman]

1. China is a big @ss country and a lot of martial artists just never met.
2. No one gave out championships or kept records of street fighting. Saying "undefeated champion in this context is kind of silly. If someone was undefeated in some kind of competitive fighting (and I think GM Chang might have been) we should really name the competition so there's no confusion. Anyone who says they never lost to someone ever in any enviroment is most likely a liar Every good fighter I know have has been beat up by someone at some point in their life. Also, not all fights were about killing your opponent or closing down their school. Some teachers had more respect for each other than others and would fight to exchange information.
3. GM Chang is pretty much universaly respected and is talked about quite a bit compared to most kungfu masters, so I'm not sure what the complaint is about, lol. He's not a household name in every martial arts school because most don't practice kungfu. He didn't win the UFC, heavy wieght boxing title, beat all of Japan's top fighters, win a Muay Thai championship, etc. so people concerned only with these sports aren't going to know about him. Most CMA people who socialize with the general CMA community are pretty familiar with him or at least some of his students.

He's very famous for a martial artist, and you shouldn't be complaining

 

[Rook]

Double post.

 

[Rook]

He won a no-rules tournament that drew people from all over the country, hence the title of "Champion of All China." That doesn't imply that he was the best in China - lots of people who were probably quite good did not compete in that tournment. Also, look at how many "World Kickboxing" champions are running around - same deal. One no-rules tournament, while a very big one, is not all. Still, his accomplishment is significant - out of 270 competitors from accross the country he came out on top, and that rather easily, demolishing most of the people.

Carry on the arguement.

Corrected.