Wing Woo Gar
Senior Master
Perhaps it was cross face? I’m not really sure. My neck is where I felt distress.
Tried BJJ for the first time last night…….
- Thread starter Yokozuna514
- Start date
Wing Woo Gar
Senior Master
Thanks for your reply, I do appreciate it. I answered a lot of this below in response to @dropbear. Feel free to offer advice, I welcome your input.
If you tap then they should release - It’s simple and there are no exceptions
Unfortunately some people are either unaware of the risk they pose when rolling or just being a bully. Either way avoid training with these people - you don‘t have to roll with anyone you’re not comfortable rolling with
Unfortunately some people are either unaware of the risk they pose when rolling or just being a bully. Either way avoid training with these people - you don‘t have to roll with anyone you’re not comfortable rolling with
Part of the process for beginners is learning when you are actually at risk of injury and when you are just uncomfortable. If you aren't able to tell, then tapping early is the correct response and your partner should respect that.
That being said, if your partner just had you in a crossface from side control, then you probably were not at risk of injury. It is technically possible for someone to put you to sleep with a crossface if they have really good shoulder pressure and you don't know how to alleviate that pressure from the bottom, but that is very rare. The warning sign for that would be if you find yourself feeling lightheaded. Also, if you have a pre-existing injury or other vulnerability in your neck and you haven't learned how to alleviate the pressure on your neck from the bottom yet, then it can be okay to tap early so you don't end up so sore you have to miss the next class.* Ask your instructor to show you how to reduce the pressure from a crossface and how to tell whether you are actually are in a position where you need to tap.
But generally, being stuck on the bottom of side control, super-uncomfortable, and not knowing how to escape isn't cause for tapping. You're training yourself to learn how to survive in that position and do tiny things to improve the situation. If you tap too early then you're depriving yourself of the chance to improve your ability to survive and escape and depriving your sparring partner of the chance to practice controlling the top and finding a legitimate submission.
*(I listed just the physical reasons why someone might need to tap from top pressure. Some people might come in with issues such as severe claustrophobia and have to tap to avoid a panic attack. If I had a student like that I might advise them to tap, take a moment to control their breathing and calm down, then reset in the same position with the intent of lasting at least 2-3 seconds longer than the previous time before they have to tap. Progressive exposure therapy.)
MetalBoar
Black Belt
Wow! You've all convinced me that I now have zero interest in BJJ.
If it's part of the culture that my sparring partner gets to decide when and if my tap is legit or not, I want no part of that. You're welcome to explain to me how I'm screwing up your training, or why tapping when I did was bad for my training, and you're welcome to do this after you've respected my tap and let me up. You're also welcome to discuss it with me before we roll so that I can decide if we're on the same page. It is not OK with me for you to decide this on your own, without my consent, and without any prior warning or explanation. That's some toxic, bullying, BS in my opinion.
If it's part of the culture that my sparring partner gets to decide when and if my tap is legit or not, I want no part of that. You're welcome to explain to me how I'm screwing up your training, or why tapping when I did was bad for my training, and you're welcome to do this after you've respected my tap and let me up. You're also welcome to discuss it with me before we roll so that I can decide if we're on the same page. It is not OK with me for you to decide this on your own, without my consent, and without any prior warning or explanation. That's some toxic, bullying, BS in my opinion.
Absolutely correct. This is a standard tenet of BJJ culture. The tap should always be respected and it’s not up to the other person to decide not to do so. If you took something else from what I wrote, then you should go back and re-read my posts. (BTW, so far Dunc and I are the only BJJ instructors who have commented on this thread and we have agreed on this point.)
OP
OP
Yokozuna514
2nd Black Belt
Aren’t all beginners gigantic spaz’s
? FMI, when do I stop becoming a gigantic spas ?
Steve
Mostly Harmless
When I first started, I had a giant blue belt crushing me and when I tapped he just told me flat out, “this isn’t a submission. It’s just pressure “. Then, without letting up the pressure, he walked me through framing and how to get up on my side and not flat on ky back tk create room to breathe.
Wing Woo Gar
Senior Master
Thank you
Wing Woo Gar
Senior Master
No I had to say “ bro you gotta let me up now I’m tapping you.” he wasn’t giving instruction.
This kind of thing is not OK
Everyone needs to learn when they absolutely need to tap and when they they can hold out &/or escape
With pressure or claustrophobia you almost always don't need to tap and that's an important lesson. However, your partner does not know everything that's going on for you. Pressure could be a broken rib for example. So I believe everyone needs to respect the tap 100% of the time, no exceptions
You can help your training partners to learn the lesson of "when to tap & when not to tap" without ignoring their tap. So in your example your giant blue belt partner should have released the pressure checked all was OK then asked if you wanted to go back there and work on your technique to release the pressure
Dunc is correct. Respect the tap first, then give feedback.
I've had training partners tap when I didn't actually have a submission sunk in. I let go first and then explain that they weren't actually in immediate danger yet. I've had partners tap from pressure. I release first, then explain how to improve their position, survive, and escape.
I've also on rare occasions gotten higher belts (blue & purple) to tap from top pressure. They had the experience to know they weren't in real danger. They were just physically exhausted, mentally beaten, and needed a break. As always, I released them right away. Perhaps it would have been better training for their mental resilience if they had refrained from tapping. But knowing that they had the option to tap is part of what allowed them to come back later and push themselves harder.
In fairness, I should point out that I have also tapped when I didn't absolutely have to. Once time I was sparring with a young, pro MMA fighter who was much, much stronger than I was. He went for a triangle choke but didn't really have it. I was in no danger from the choke, so I tried to wait it out. However what he did have was his cup grinding directly into my eye socket. I waited for a bit to see whether he would try transitioning to some other position that I could escape from., but he just stayed where he was and kept squeezing. Even though I wasn't in danger, his leg squeeze was too tight for me to escape. So I had the choice of tapping to a non-submission or just staying in the same spot for the next several minutes with a hard plastic cup grinding into my eye socket. I decided that it was a more productive use of my sparring time to tap and move onto some different positions.
I've had training partners tap when I didn't actually have a submission sunk in. I let go first and then explain that they weren't actually in immediate danger yet. I've had partners tap from pressure. I release first, then explain how to improve their position, survive, and escape.
I've also on rare occasions gotten higher belts (blue & purple) to tap from top pressure. They had the experience to know they weren't in real danger. They were just physically exhausted, mentally beaten, and needed a break. As always, I released them right away. Perhaps it would have been better training for their mental resilience if they had refrained from tapping. But knowing that they had the option to tap is part of what allowed them to come back later and push themselves harder.
In fairness, I should point out that I have also tapped when I didn't absolutely have to. Once time I was sparring with a young, pro MMA fighter who was much, much stronger than I was. He went for a triangle choke but didn't really have it. I was in no danger from the choke, so I tried to wait it out. However what he did have was his cup grinding directly into my eye socket. I waited for a bit to see whether he would try transitioning to some other position that I could escape from., but he just stayed where he was and kept squeezing. Even though I wasn't in danger, his leg squeeze was too tight for me to escape. So I had the choice of tapping to a non-submission or just staying in the same spot for the next several minutes with a hard plastic cup grinding into my eye socket. I decided that it was a more productive use of my sparring time to tap and move onto some different positions.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I am sorry if I gave you the impression he ignored my tap. I’m on a phone so I’m not typing novels, but he didn’t ignore my tap at all.
Oh that’s great
Sorry for reading too much into it
