Training tonight

[Headhunter]

So one of my training partners from my kenpo group I run encouraged me to come to his club for a session. I had nothing else so I agreed and sadly it's really reinforced a lot of my negative things about the style.

Frankly it was one of the most boring things I'd ever done it was an hour and a half class but it felt like 5 hours. The warm up consisted of starting off with basic punches and kicks. That's fine but then the instructor started talking for over 20 minutes about the theoretical application of those punches. It's meant to be a warm up the whole point is to warm up not stand around listening.

So anyway we moved onto techniques and started with yellow belts. Which is fine always good to practice lower stuff. But 3 techniques in the instructor started a lecture that lasted the remaining time of the class talking about so much theory and how we can apply if but not actually doing anything we must've been standing there for about 40 minutes.

I'm seeing this a lot in kenpo now. The instructors simply over complicate it. Most simply aren't interested in the theory they want to train and punch and kick not stand around listening to this guy talk about fighting.

Now I know not every club is like this at all but I've seen it in a number of them now and it's quite sad to be honest. Karate is already struggling more these days and kenpo is meant to be a self defence system yet these instructors are treating it like a university lecture.

It's a shame because kenpo is a brilliant style and very effective but some places just aren't teaching in a way people can be effective. Now there's nothing wrong with doing theory stuff as I know it's important but as I said in a hour and a half class we must've spent about an hour and 10 minutes talking and maybe 20 minutes actually training and in my opinion it's just not right. Now im a older guy who's been doing this for years and understands the theory and I was bored so imagine how a say purple belt teenager was feeling in that class.

Again it's a shame but I'll continue to train it in my group because I still love the style and skills it teaches.

 

[skribs]

Is that the art or the instructor?

I watched a Kendo school demonstration where the entire demonstration was the instructor talking while his students every once in a while did basic drills in the background. Does that mean Kendo is boring and wordy, or just that that particular instructor has to star in the demonstration?

 

[JR 137]

I think this is something some MA teachers, physical education teachers, and coaches do without realizing it. If they were taking the class/practicing, they’d be just as bored and antsy as anyone else. It’s not a style thing (that I know of), it’s a teacher thing.

In my physical education classes, I make sure I talk for no more than 2 minutes at a time. Ideally no more than 1 minute. When I was in grad school, some my professors would have a stopwatch and time the total amount of talking we did and standing around time during demo lessons. If it was graded, you’d lose points if you went over a certain amount of time unless it was justified (which was quite rare). My professor who observed me during student teaching did the same. My cooperating teacher while I was student teaching didn’t because there was no need to.

Sure, there’s days in MA when a lot of explanation is necessary. When you’ve got a brand new group or better yet a group that just promoted and they’re learning completely new material. But even then they should at least be moving during most of it.

Seems like common sense that 90% of a MA/PE class or sports practice should be spent moving. I think most of the teachers/coaches who talk too much are oblivious to it. I gauge if I’m talking too much by the look on the students’ faces and body language. It’s really easy to see if you’re paying attention to it.

Then again, how much did I just “talk” right now? I’m out.

 

[JR 137]

Is that the art or the instructor?

I watched a Kendo school demonstration where the entire demonstration was the instructor talking while his students every once in a while did basic drills in the background. Does that mean Kendo is boring and wordy, or just that that particular instructor has to star in the demonstration?

Demonstrations and class are different things. Different purposes.

 

[hoshin1600]

i was a guest speaker at a college once in my role as a martial artist. it was a Japanese culture class and i took one student with me. i started out talking about what martial arts are and the culture that is ingrained in it and how it ,.....blah blah.....and often in Japanese society....blah blah... wha wha yattayatta.....
i remember seeing that glazed over look in the classes eyes ...so i rained it in and started pounding out some physical karate stuff with my student.

lesson learned,..just because i am enthusiastic and excited about the theory and history stuff doesnt mean everyone else is.

 

[Headhunter]

i was a guest speaker at a college once in my role as a martial artist. it was a Japanese culture class and i took one student with me. i started out talking about what martial arts are and the culture that is ingrained in it and how it ,.....blah blah.....and often in Japanese society....blah blah... wha wha yattayatta.....
i remember seeing that glazed over look in the classes eyes ...so i rained it in and started pounding out some physical karate stuff with my student.

lesson learned,..just because i am enthusiastic and excited about the theory and history stuff doesnt mean everyone else is.

Yeah I mean hey if people are into that stuff good on them but I've always said a martial class isn't about the teacher he's the least important person in the room the students are the main priority and if it's just the teacher and a bunch of guys who the love the stuff then great but more than likely most would rather be working so you need to be doing stuff, personally I'm a physical guy I'd rather spend an hour hitting a bag with maybe not so great technique than spend an hour eith a guy telling me how to punch a bag.

My favourite analogy is one an old instructor told me.

You can find 5 year old kids who can tell you everything about cars, the history the model, the design, how the engine works how the breaks work everything you need to know. But can that kid actually get behind the wheel and drive 99% of them no they can't so really all that information doesn't do you any good if you can't actually do what your talking about

 

[Headhunter]

Is that the art or the instructor?

I watched a Kendo school demonstration where the entire demonstration was the instructor talking while his students every once in a while did basic drills in the background. Does that mean Kendo is boring and wordy, or just that that particular instructor has to star in the demonstration?

As I've said it's the instructor, the style is great but there's instructors who make it boring

 

[Headhunter]

I think this is something some MA teachers, physical education teachers, and coaches do without realizing it. If they were taking the class/practicing, they’d be just as bored and antsy as anyone else. It’s not a style thing (that I know of), it’s a teacher thing.

In my physical education classes, I make sure I talk for no more than 2 minutes at a time. Ideally no more than 1 minute. When I was in grad school, some my professors would have a stopwatch and time the total amount of talking we did and standing around time during demo lessons. If it was graded, you’d lose points if you went over a certain amount of time unless it was justified (which was quite rare). My professor who observed me during student teaching did the same. My cooperating teacher while I was student teaching didn’t because there was no need to.

Sure, there’s days in MA when a lot of explanation is necessary. When you’ve got a brand new group or better yet a group that just promoted and they’re learning completely new material. But even then they should at least be moving during most of it.

Seems like common sense that 90% of a MA/PE class or sports practice should be spent moving. I think most of the teachers/coaches who talk too much are oblivious to it. I gauge if I’m talking too much by the look on the students’ faces and body language. It’s really easy to see if you’re paying attention to it.

Then again, how much did I just “talk” right now? I’m out.

Agreed I'm not just trashing kenpo for that. I'm sure it happens in every style but the thing is that annoys me kenpo is modelled as a self defence style that's what it's promoted as so that's what the focus should be in my eyes. Not to generalise but I don't think there many boxing gyms or mma Muay Thai or whatever gyms that spend 40 minutes talking about things rather than training and that's why those styles are getting more popular. People want to be working out and getting a sweat on and hitting bags and sparring they don't want to be spending ages talking about how to do a basic punch.

 

[hoshin1600]

You can find 5 year old kids who can tell you everything about cars, the history the model, the design, how the engine works how the breaks work everything you need to know. But can that kid actually get behind the wheel and drive 99% of them no they can't so really all that information doesn't do you any good if you can't actually do what your talking about

"Talking about how a tree grows, doesn't help it grow one bit."

 

[JR 137]

"Talking about how a tree grows, doesn't help it grow one bit."

Talking to it does though, surprisingly.

 

[skribs]

While it doesn't pertain to martial arts, doctors have instructional lessons and practical lessons. To be a doctor you have to learn your book smarts, but you also have to go out and actually work with people to learn your craft.

As a kid I would have hated a seminar that just talks about theory of martial arts, but I wouldn't mind one today.

 

[Dirty Dog]

While it doesn't pertain to martial arts, doctors have instructional lessons and practical lessons. To be a doctor you have to learn your book smarts, but you also have to go out and actually work with people to learn your craft.

As a kid I would have hated a seminar that just talks about theory of martial arts, but I wouldn't mind one today.

Actually, there is no legal requirement for a residency, let alone an internship.
They're required for board certification in your chosen specialty, but there's no legal obstruction to earning a medical degree and opening a practice without either.
It would be a stupid thing to do, in my opinion, but it's allowable.