Training for MMA or Cage Fighting?

[Yoshiyahu]

I was woundering if any of you have been in Cage fighting,UFC or MMA fighting with your Wing Chun or other styles?

What sort of Strength,Power, Stamina,Endurance, Speed and body conditioning Training do you do?

Please share what are some of the things you do to get in competition shape?

 

[qwksilver61]

Man,I remember blabbing off and getting pumped about all that in another post.I think a person would really have to be driven to want to compete on that level.I think I'll stick to defending myself against bullies for now.Yes EBMAS teaches groundfighting techniques,and I don't know if there are plans to take it to the ring,I'll leave it to the young guys for now!

 

[geezer]

...I think a person would really have to be driven to want to compete on that level.I think I'll stick to defending myself against bullies for now.Yes EBMAS teaches groundfighting techniques,and I don't know if there are plans to take it to the ring, I'll leave it to the young guys for now!

I'm totally with you on that, Joe. Actually, I really wish Emin, or some or his top guys like Michael Casey would train some people for cage fighting. I think it would help WT/WC in general. ...And it would be so cool to watch!

Actually, there's a guy in my area that coaches cage fighters. His personal specialty is boxing and FMA, but he incorporates some Wing Chun concepts too (he studied WT back in the '80s)...and his guys have done well. But, he works out of a BJJ gym, so his guys have all the bases covered. He's my Eskrima coach too, and I really love the way that he gets me to use my Wing Tsun to work for my Eskrima.

 

[Nabakatsu]

I'll wave to you from the the cage in a few years time! -insert eye roll here- Seriously tho, my school has micheal casey come out for seminars every 3-4 months usually, so i'm told.. so yeah! I've been really working my butt off, let's see if I can't make it to that level with in a good 4-5 years or so!

 

[Mystic Wolf]

I am Wing Chun practitioner, and have been studing WT for over 13 years, both Sifu Fung system, and EBMAS. I am going into the cage very soon. I've competed in San Shau 7-1.
Make sure you focus on muscle endurance and cardio.
I am developing some new conditioning techniques designed to increase certian muscle endurance for escaping BJJ holds on the ground. This added with WT anti-grappling sensitivity training.
You have to be prepared for the unexpected in any fight, but these excersizes should help.

It really shames me that no other Wing Chun stylists do not want to train anyone for the cage. This is why myself and a couple of others left to train with other WC schools to go compete in the cage.
I have been training for the past 6 months for the cage, and my training is starting at a whole new level next week. This according to my training program.

I should have a fight coming up in March or April, but the fight I really want to get is in May. That one is a pay perview fight.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Aww Mystic wolf finnally a post to interest you an bring you out of hybernation....Welcome please continue to share!

 

[Yoshiyahu]

One of the reasons Why some WC schools don't want to train people for torunment fighting and competitions is because its alot of work. The Trainer has to work hard to get you ready. That may take away from his classes too. You need someone who only does personal training for fighting in cage with no other engagements like classes three to four times a week.

Also I have found some schools are not interested in combat,sparring or even tournment fighting. So this is another reason why they don't. Also some people feel the essence of pure wing chun would be loss by evolving in a such away for a tournament. I don't know why.

anyway what do you do to increase stamina and muscle endurance?

I am Wing Chun practitioner, and have been studing WT for over 13 years, both Sifu Fung system, and EBMAS. I am going into the cage very soon. I've competed in San Shau 7-1.
Make sure you focus on muscle endurance and cardio.
I am developing some new conditioning techniques designed to increase certian muscle endurance for escaping BJJ holds on the ground. This added with WT anti-grappling sensitivity training.
You have to be prepared for the unexpected in any fight, but these excersizes should help.

It really shames me that no other Wing Chun stylists do not want to train anyone for the cage. This is why myself and a couple of others left to train with other WC schools to go compete in the cage.
I have been training for the past 6 months for the cage, and my training is starting at a whole new level next week. This according to my training program.

I should have a fight coming up in March or April, but the fight I really want to get is in May. That one is a pay perview fight.

 

[Mystic Wolf]

I'd like to give Sifu Grados props for bringing Wing Chun to MMA ring.

This one has a long intro to the non wing chun fighter and his record and skill in MMA, the fight is in the middle to end.

I too will be bring Wing Chun to the cage and I have a couple of other fighters who are wanting to do the same thing. I feel that as a Wing Chun community we should get together and train to show the world what Wing Chun really is, and the only way they will listen is in the cage.
I feel that all Wing Chun Sifu's should at least train one student to represent his Wing Chun in the cage, and we all unite and train together to ensure victory.
United we stand, divided we fall.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Are there alot of students now willing to compete or desring to compete in the cage?


It would be great.

What is some of the training you do?


Also do you think it would beneficial if all WC fighters train that way every day? Even if they don't compete?

I'd like to give Sifu Grados props for bringing Wing Chun to MMA ring.

This one has a long intro to the non wing chun fighter and his record and skill in MMA, the fight is in the middle to end.

I too will be bring Wing Chun to the cage and I have a couple of other fighters who are wanting to do the same thing. I feel that as a Wing Chun community we should get together and train to show the world what Wing Chun really is, and the only way they will listen is in the cage.
I feel that all Wing Chun Sifu's should at least train one student to represent his Wing Chun in the cage, and we all unite and train together to ensure victory.
United we stand, divided we fall.

 

[Si-Je]

One of the reasons Why some WC schools don't want to train people for torunment fighting and competitions is because its alot of work. The Trainer has to work hard to get you ready. That may take away from his classes too. You need someone who only does personal training for fighting in cage with no other engagements like classes three to four times a week.

Also I have found some schools are not interested in combat,sparring or even tournment fighting. So this is another reason why they don't. Also some people feel the essence of pure wing chun would be loss by evolving in a such away for a tournament. I don't know why.

anyway what do you do to increase stamina and muscle endurance?

I can understand the time constraints with regular classes, but one could add another class time slot for such intensive training or do private lesson. Have the student do conditioning with a personal trainer at the gym, and that would leave more time for training for the ring with focus on sparring and application.

I don't feel that true WC/Wt would be lost or watered down in the ring as much as people say. When I sparred in a TKD continious sparring match I never watered down the WC or slipped into another style to win. Straight WC all the way. And it worked.
Now, granted there was no ground fighting, but I feel that is irrevelant. Unless one is a WC stylist that feels that anti-grappling technique isn't "true" WT. Which, I think it's true enough.
It follows all the principles of Wing Chun to the tee as far as I can see. For Mook Jong Man: the 5 principles of Wing Chun are all present in anti-grappling. This being so, why would the "purity" of Wing Chun be compromised in the ring?

Okay, so you can't chian punch the opponent in the back of the head or neck. I agree with this, that is nasty and it is JUST a competition, no need to kill or paralyse someone. You can still pivot and chian punch the side of the head, etc.
Okay, no groin shots. That's fair and besides, they wear cups.
Okay, no eye strikes. I don't want to see purse fighters going blind or worse just to make a buck. So leave eye strikes out. But you can still utilize bui gee!
You can heel kick the knee just as you would in the street. They do allow knee and leg kicking even in the inside of the thigh. Now, do you really want to break someone's leg in a sport competition?
Okay, don't kick them in the head or face when their on the ground and your standing. Again you could really kill or paralyse someone. I see that as acceptable rules. But if your on the ground with them too, you can still use your knees and legs as you would with antigrappling, sneak a knee to the head when their on top of you, etc.
You CAN elbow the head, chest, Palm striking is allowed, heel kick, chops, hammerfist, hook kick, good old fashioned forearm shiver, planting the hand right in the face, neck takedowns, all legal.
So,
1. no groin shots
2. no biting
3. no kicking to head/body when opponent is down (so just wait until they get up again or follow them chainpunching!
4. no eye gouge
5. no headbutts (although I see the fighter's sneak those in all the time.
Would this really take THAT much away from Wing Chun?

 

[Mystic Wolf]

Well said Si-Je!
My workouts consist of teaching class, I ride my bike 50 miles a week (to and from work everyday), I jog 5 miles a week, all for cardio.
I do weight training 3 times a week to build up strength and muscle (body armor) after weight traing workout.
I do bagwork wing chun style for 30 minutes followed with doing all three forms slowly to relax and loosen up.
Saturdays are my sparring day. I've been doing this for the past 6 months.
I work a fulltime day job, teach three days a week, train in this manner by making it a part of my normal daily schedule.
Here's a sample of the weight training program I will be incorporating next week:

Strength Endurance​

From The Bodybuilding.com Workout Database​

Schedule

SUNDAY​

MONDAY​

TUESDAY​

WEDNESDAY​

THURSDAY​

FRIDAY​

SATURDAY​

Workout #1

Workout #2

Workout #3

Schedule Explanation: This workout program is done on the same days of each week on the schedule shown above. The blank days are OFF days.​

Workout #1

EXERCISE​

Set #1​

Set #2​

Set #3​

Leg Press - 10 Reps
Stiff Leg Deadlift - 10 Reps
Incline Press - 10 Reps
Jammer Press - 10 Reps
Low Row - 10 Reps
Bicep Curl - 10 Reps
Tricep Extension - 10 Reps
Crunches - 25 Reps

Workout #2

EXERCISE​

Set #1​

Set #2​

Set #3​

Hang Clean - 6 Reps
Power Press - 6 Reps
Rotation - 10 Reps
Crunches - 25 Reps
Neck Exercise - 20 Reps

Workout #3

EXERCISE​

Set #1​

Set #2​

Set #3​

Push Up - 25 Reps
Chins - 10 Reps
Squats - 50 Reps
Crunches - 50 Reps
Judo Push Ups - 10 Reps
Pull Ups - 10 Reps
Walking Lunges - 20 Reps
Leg Raises - 50 Reps
Dips - 20 Reps
Rope Pull Ups - 10 Reps
Step Ups - 25 Reps
Elbow To Knee Crunches - 50 Reps
Body Builders - 10 Reps

Press back to return.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/workoutdatabase.htm

A little background: I have a bachelor's degree in business with a minor in sports physiology, and will be working to get my Masters in Sports Health and Wellness this January. Yes, busy lifestyle, but I like to keep fit.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Intersting Post. I was woundering this question is for everyone. At your Wing Chun Kwoon(Tong) Do you spar?


If the answer is yes when your spar your Sidai or Sihing do you guys engaging in Biting? Eye Strikes? Punches in the back of the head? If you spar with your sihing or sifu do they do take down moves or throws? If you have ever been swept,thrown or had a take down move applied on you by upper level student or Sifu in class do they stomp you while your down? When you spar do you grab your sparring partner by the neck and bash your knee into his face? Do you kick your Sifu in groin when you spar?


I am just wondering? Because if you guys spar like that, I think I do better starting fights with Gang members. Yea, She has a point it is consenting competition. Not a real fight. If someone is foolish enough to fight you. Not to test his martial arts in friendly fight but someone wants to fight you to literally hurt you or kill you. Than of course you should use excessive force. That means you can stomp them while there down an make sure they don't get up. The grab you or try to wrestle you bite their inner thigh or their nipple to make them release you. Punch,Finger strike,Kick or knee them in groin. Bite their face if you have too. Gogue your thumb in their eye if you can. Strike an aim for their eyes while their trying to knock your head off with a haymaker. Kick their knees in constantly until they break. Grab their arm an break it at the elbow. They try to go down to ground punch the heck out their back their head. Grab their head an bash it into your knee. Try to knock their nose into their brain. This is if your own the street an someone is trying to fight you because they don't like you,want your money or shoes, want to hurt you for fun of it,Want to rape your woman or you,They crazy or have a gang initiation to beat up some random person. ETC Etc.

Thats when its no holds bar.

An Si-Je. just because someone has a cup on. It still hurts to get hit down there. Lol. I have heard that even in TKD olympics somepeople have had their cup split in half. I heard one guy even got his member stuck in the hole in cup and had to call paramedics to remove it....wow nasty pain....

I can understand the time constraints with regular classes, but one could add another class time slot for such intensive training or do private lesson. Have the student do conditioning with a personal trainer at the gym, and that would leave more time for training for the ring with focus on sparring and application.

I don't feel that true WC/Wt would be lost or watered down in the ring as much as people say. When I sparred in a TKD continious sparring match I never watered down the WC or slipped into another style to win. Straight WC all the way. And it worked.


Now, granted there was no ground fighting, but I feel that is irrevelant. Unless one is a WC stylist that feels that anti-grappling technique isn't "true" WT. Which, I think it's true enough.


It follows all the principles of Wing Chun to the tee as far as I can see. For Mook Jong Man: the 5 principles of Wing Chun are all present in anti-grappling. This being so, why would the "purity" of Wing Chun be compromised in the ring?

Okay, so you can't chian punch the opponent in the back of the head or neck. I agree with this, that is nasty and it is JUST a competition, no need to kill or paralyse someone. You can still pivot and chian punch the side of the head, etc.

Okay, no groin shots. That's fair and besides, they wear cups.
Okay, no eye strikes. I don't want to see purse fighters going blind or worse just to make a buck. So leave eye strikes out. But you can still utilize bui gee!

You can heel kick the knee just as you would in the street. They do allow knee and leg kicking even in the inside of the thigh. Now, do you really want to break someone's leg in a sport competition?

Okay, don't kick them in the head or face when their on the ground and your standing. Again you could really kill or paralyse someone. I see that as acceptable rules. But if your on the ground with them too, you can still use your knees and legs as you would with antigrappling, sneak a knee to the head when their on top of you, etc.

You CAN elbow the head, chest, Palm striking is allowed, heel kick, chops, hammerfist, hook kick, good old fashioned forearm shiver, planting the hand right in the face, neck takedowns, all legal.
So,
1. no groin shots
2. no biting
3. no kicking to head/body when opponent is down (so just wait until they get up again or follow them chainpunching!
4. no eye gouge
5. no headbutts (although I see the fighter's sneak those in all the time.
Would this really take THAT much away from Wing Chun?

 

[Si-Je]

I heard one guy even got his member stuck in the hole in cup and had to call paramedics to remove it....wow nasty pain....

That's a whole NEW kind of HURT right there! ack!

I knew it still hurt, but I figured it helps? They seem to recover quickly in UFC fights, but most of those are grazing shots I guess.

Booboo girl head but me right in the front of the pelvis last week, and it dropped me to the floor with a scream! I think she hit an ovary! I described the kind of pain to hubbie, and he said, "yep! that's it! That's what it feels like when you ladies kick us there!" And then laughed at me.
Although, the nipple biting you mentioned made me twinge and writhe just to think about it! EVIIIIL!

 

[mook jong man]

I can understand the time constraints with regular classes, but one could add another class time slot for such intensive training or do private lesson. Have the student do conditioning with a personal trainer at the gym, and that would leave more time for training for the ring with focus on sparring and application.

I don't feel that true WC/Wt would be lost or watered down in the ring as much as people say. When I sparred in a TKD continious sparring match I never watered down the WC or slipped into another style to win. Straight WC all the way. And it worked.
Now, granted there was no ground fighting, but I feel that is irrevelant. Unless one is a WC stylist that feels that anti-grappling technique isn't "true" WT. Which, I think it's true enough.
It follows all the principles of Wing Chun to the tee as far as I can see. For Mook Jong Man: the 5 principles of Wing Chun are all present in anti-grappling. This being so, why would the "purity" of Wing Chun be compromised in the ring?

Okay, so you can't chian punch the opponent in the back of the head or neck. I agree with this, that is nasty and it is JUST a competition, no need to kill or paralyse someone. You can still pivot and chian punch the side of the head, etc.
Okay, no groin shots. That's fair and besides, they wear cups.
Okay, no eye strikes. I don't want to see purse fighters going blind or worse just to make a buck. So leave eye strikes out. But you can still utilize bui gee!
You can heel kick the knee just as you would in the street. They do allow knee and leg kicking even in the inside of the thigh. Now, do you really want to break someone's leg in a sport competition?
Okay, don't kick them in the head or face when their on the ground and your standing. Again you could really kill or paralyse someone. I see that as acceptable rules. But if your on the ground with them too, you can still use your knees and legs as you would with antigrappling, sneak a knee to the head when their on top of you, etc.
You CAN elbow the head, chest, Palm striking is allowed, heel kick, chops, hammerfist, hook kick, good old fashioned forearm shiver, planting the hand right in the face, neck takedowns, all legal.
So,
1. no groin shots
2. no biting
3. no kicking to head/body when opponent is down (so just wait until they get up again or follow them chainpunching!
4. no eye gouge
5. no headbutts (although I see the fighter's sneak those in all the time.
Would this really take THAT much away from Wing Chun?

I'm not really knowledgeable on the WT ANTI grappleing so I don't really know what techniques are involved . But if they follow the principles that is great . When I said that I was not aware that you were allowed to kick the knee or shin , because I remember over here when people went in tournaments they weren't allowed to kick the joints with a heel kick . But if you are allowed to do that it changes everything because the low heel kick is one of the Wing Chun guys main weapon. And as long as wearing the gloves doesn't change your punching technique too much its okay . I just sort of had a picture in my minds eye of the match degenerating into a muay thai leg kicking competition , but you have educated me now and I am a better man for it. :bow:

 

[Mystic Wolf]

Heel kicking is legal because they don't know what it is. You can kick the knee, inside of the leg, etc. But if you get a WC/WT guy in there and breaks the guys leg with heel kick right off the bat, i'm sure they will make that a new rule. So don't do it. lol!
They see heel kick like a karate front snap kick where you lead with the ball of the foot.

In tournament competition your not allowed to kick the leg or knee, but.. you CAN "check the kicking leg". If you use heel kick like a "door stopper" and say heel kick the theigh as you do when practicing with a fellow wing chunner in class on the leg their using to kick you with, that is usually "legal".
We've had many students spar in karate/TKD tournaments (continous sparring) where they used heel kick like this. The judges don't know what their looking at, to them it's a leg check.
Also, adapt to the rules. If you can't kick below the belt, heel kick the stomach, this works wonders in the competition ring.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

I describe tactics I would use in real fight especially if someone was foolish enough to pull me to ground. If I can only use my head I am going bite what ever vunerlable point I can get. If its the throat I am going to bite. If its the groin I am going to hold my breath and try to rip off skin!

That's a whole NEW kind of HURT right there! ack!

I knew it still hurt, but I figured it helps? They seem to recover quickly in UFC fights, but most of those are grazing shots I guess.

Booboo girl head but me right in the front of the pelvis last week, and it dropped me to the floor with a scream! I think she hit an ovary! I described the kind of pain to hubbie, and he said, "yep! that's it! That's what it feels like when you ladies kick us there!" And then laughed at me.
Although, the nipple biting you mentioned made me twinge and writhe just to think about it! EVIIIIL!

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Mook Jong man, Man you entertained me here....

I'm not really knowledgeable on the WT ANTI grappleing so I don't really know what techniques are involved . But if they follow the principles that is great . When I said that I was not aware that you were allowed to kick the knee or shin , because I remember over here when people went in tournaments they weren't allowed to kick the joints with a heel kick . But if you are allowed to do that it changes everything because the low heel kick is one of the Wing Chun guys main weapon. And as long as wearing the gloves doesn't change your punching technique too much its okay . I just sort of had a picture in my minds eye of the match degenerating into a muay thai leg kicking competition , but you have educated me now and I am a better man for it. :bow:

Mystic Wolf what pic was you trying to Post was it this?

http://vwcmas.itgo.com/cgi-bin/i/images/nikki_sparing.jpg

http://vwcmas.itgo.com/cgi-bin/i/images/nikki_sparing.jpg

 

[Mystic Wolf]

I don't believe in bitting, only as a last resort, due to AIDS, Hep C, ect...

Something to think about?

 

[Yoshiyahu]

True that. I see what your saying...lol...Don't go around biting no crack heads...lol...unless through their clothes.

I don't believe in bitting, only as a last resort, due to AIDS, Hep C, ect...

Something to think about?

 

[Mystic Wolf]

Mook Jong man, notice Si-Je doing a heel kick waist height. She was getting pressured and she heel kicked her in the center of her stomach. Which pushed her back so Si-Je could regain the center of the ring.
After this she chainpunched her in the nose a couple of times and was almost disqualified.
She took her warnings, and stopped chainpuching altogether, and just deflected the rest of the match, with tan sau, dai sau, and chit sau, and heel kick and side kick; frustrating her opponent because she couldn't get a hit in. And won 24-6 hits counted in continous sparring.
I gave her opponent 2 extra points for her opponent because si-je let her hit her in the head after she chainpunched her twice in the nose two different times. I guess si-je felt bad, she kept apologizing and didn't realize the match was continuing and the other girl got mad and punched si-je right in the facemask. Gave the other girl 2 points for the one hit, because si-je shouldn't have let her guard down! lol!