Traditional or MMA preference

[sgtmac_46]

My biggest issue with my LIMITED experience with MMA (sports, not eclectic MA) is not from a fighting or self-defense aspect. The primary goal of my martial art is personal development, a.k.a. making oneself a better person. This encompasses physical fitness and being able to defend oneself.. . but it also deals with mental and spiritual development as well. Self-respect, self-discipline, loyalty, etc.. .

I confess I do not know how most MMA gyms train, but what I see on the television represents a lack of humility and respect for their fellow competitors. If any of my students represented themselves like that, they would be in for one whale of a tongue lashing.

MMA gyms are run more like Boxing gyms than dojos.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

MMA gyms are run more like Boxing gyms than dojos.

I honestly have no problem with that inherently. It is purely symantics with MMA being considered a martial "ART." I agree that MMA is most definitely a MARTIAL/combat sport, and I will concede that there is certainly an art to executing the techniques utilized in the ring. But from that stance then all sports at the elite level are some what of an artform.

I do not knock MMA at all, it is just that alot of TMA people are trying to compare what they do in their training halls to what takes place in an MMA gym. You can't exactly compare apples with oranges, but you have to admit they are both fruit.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I honestly have no problem with that inherently. It is purely symantics with MMA being considered a martial "ART." I agree that MMA is most definitely a MARTIAL/combat sport, and I will concede that there is certainly an art to executing the techniques utilized in the ring. But from that stance then all sports at the elite level are some what of an artform.

True enough.

I do not knock MMA at all, it is just that alot of TMA people are trying to compare what they do in their training halls to what takes place in an MMA gym. You can't exactly compare apples with oranges, but you have to admit they are both fruit.

TMA's are following an eastern martial tradition that is, generally, hierarchical and regimented, and wrapped in eastern religious traditions, with the students revering the master, again in east asian tradition, and doing their best to perfect a system considered perfect in itself, very much in keeping with the Confucianism (as well as Taoism and Buddhism) that the cultures that inspired them were rooted in.

Confucianism, in particular, is responsible for the reverence and loyalty that the masters are given, and the reverence for past and tradition, and ritual. In that sense, what is taught by the master is to be considered perfect and complete, and it is the students responsibility to perfect themselves to that end. This is especially true of martial traditions from Japan, China and Korea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucianism

MMA, despite influences from the eastern tradition, very much carries on a western martial arts tradition going back to the ancient greeks. In the western tradition (see also: 'Classical' and 'Greek'), individual excellence, rather than reverence for the past and high esteemed masters, is the order of the day. No 'master' is revered, rather, individuals who achieve excellence are reverred. The past is not considered perfect, and what exists can be improved. In fact, I suspect that the Pancrationists of ancient greeks would feel right at home at Pat Miletich's gym.

So, in a sense, the divide we see between MMA and TMA is really emblematic of a larger, east/west divide in our approach to martial arts training. What many TMA practioners see as the 'disrespect' of MMA, is really nothing more than a continuation of this divide, and disdain for the revered ritual of eastern tradition, and adoption of the classical western tradition of excellence in action.........what the greeks referred to as 'Arete'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arete

 

[sgtmac_46]

After thinking about what I wrote above, i'd have to say that, though I have trained both in TMA (Specifically Judo) and western training schools (MMA), all in all, I feel far more comfortable in a Boxing Gym, MMA school, and the like than in a Dojo.......it suits my character and temperament better.......my interest is purely in the practical and pragmatic, and while I respect the accomplishments and abilities of many instructors, it doesn't rise to the level of 'fealty'.......if what my instructor is teaching is good, but someone across the street has something pretty darn useful, i'm not going to ignore it out of some Confucian-esque loyalty to master and tradition.......I simply don't believe any 'master' has or could put together a 'perfect' system that I need to study for the rest of my life to achieve personal perfection.......even if he was a world-class martial artist, he didn't have my particular size, shape, strengths and weaknesses, so my question is a personal one of Greek 'Arete'.

Maybe we should call MMA arts 'Martial Aretes'?

Virtus et Honor

 

[SahBumNimRush]

sgt mac,

I respect and appreciate your insight. My instructor is the poster child of the Confucian Patriarch. However, we are encouraged to take ANYTHING that works and ecorporate it into our repetoire. I believe the reverence you speak of, is misplaced in many training halls. IMHO, it is much like the military, you HAVE TO SHOW RESPECT to your superiors. That doesnt mean you have to respect them, or place them on a pedastal.

I doubt anyone in the military believes their superiors are the end all, be all in military tactics, etc.. . But they got that rank for a reason, most of the time by hard work and experience (even though, both in TMA and military, there are many that are promoted for political or other less deserving reasons).

I agree with you that no one person can hold the one and only insight into the "perfect" system. There are many things from both an MMA and a TMA training style I very much appreciate, and there are parts that I do not. In the TMA training hall, the misplaced emphasis placed on rank (too much idolization rather than proper respect) and too much rigidity in mindset (anything that works should be tested and encorporated) are two things, generally speaking, that create alot of problems. However, in a good TMA school, emphasis is placed on training the person as a whole, mental and physical. To use your example of "arete," to strive to be the BEST PERSON you can be, not just the best fighter.

In MMA, I have not seen that, but I admit my exposure to the MMA world as a whole is quite limited. I really like that you are judged on your ability, and there is no idolization of instructors.

Now if I could just figure out a way a marry the best of the two and ditch the baggage, HAHA.

 

[Tez3]

I apologize if this has already been brought up, I read the first 7 pages of this thread, but I'm running short on time and wanted to put in my 2 cents.

I have trained in one martial art for 24 years, and I have had the opportunity to train with martial artists from other martial arts. I DO encorporate what works for me from these other arts into my martial art. I think it would be foolish to abandon something that works.

My biggest issue with my LIMITED experience with MMA (sports, not eclectic MA) is not from a fighting or self-defense aspect. The primary goal of my martial art is personal development, a.k.a. making oneself a better person. This encompasses physical fitness and being able to defend oneself.. . but it also deals with mental and spiritual development as well. Self-respect, self-discipline, loyalty, etc.. .

I confess I do not know how most MMA gyms train, but what I see on the television represents a lack of humility and respect for their fellow competitors. If any of my students represented themselves like that, they would be in for one whale of a tongue lashing.

What you see on television is television performers directed by people out to make money. Bad behaviour pays in television terms.
The majority of MMA fighters and people who train are far from what you will see on television, would you say the professional wrestling performers are the same as the Olympic wrestlers? The MMA people I know are actually very humble and sportsmanlike, they will happily learn martial arts anywhere.
How many people on these reality television shows are actually like your neighbours friends and family?
The gyms and clubs here are welcoming to anyone, more so than many TMA places, they are informal yes but very friendly. They train with respect for each other and also fight the same way. I have seen great sportsmanship in fights as well as humour.
I do get angry when people base everything they think about MMA on what is seen on television especially American television. The UFC is worth over $1bn so they will keep on doing whatever brings the money in.... to the detriment of real MMA.

 

[sgtmac_46]

What you see on television is television performers directed by people out to make money. Bad behaviour pays in television terms.
The majority of MMA fighters and people who train are far from what you will see on television, would you say the professional wrestling performers are the same as the Olympic wrestlers? The MMA people I know are actually very humble and sportsmanlike, they will happily learn martial arts anywhere.
How many people on these reality television shows are actually like your neighbours friends and family?
The gyms and clubs here are welcoming to anyone, more so than many TMA places, they are informal yes but very friendly. They train with respect for each other and also fight the same way. I have seen great sportsmanship in fights as well as humour.
I do get angry when people base everything they think about MMA on what is seen on television especially American television. The UFC is worth over $1bn so they will keep on doing whatever brings the money in.... to the detriment of real MMA.

I really think it's important to distinguish between MMA the sport, and MMA in the larger sense, which is the blending of whatever styles work, such as we see in JKD and other 'arts'.........what ends up happening is we end up talking about the later, and then it immediately shifts back to making a point about the first.........of course that's the danger with having an all-encompassing term, that also doubles as a specific reference to a specific sport.

 

[Tez3]

Here MMA is the sport of fighting in the ring/cage and when we talk of other styles being mixed for SD etc we talk of cross training, I think we don't have as much confusion as seems to be in the States. Here MMA is understood as the stuff one does to fight in the cage/ring and not anything else. The use of capital letters I think gives the indication that it's the sport not a blending of styles for any other purpose.
I've never heard the term mixed martial arts here used to describe anything other than the style used for fighting. If someone says they do MMA here, it's accepted that it's for fighting not just the mixing of styles, there's no wider meaning here. For us there is just MMA, so I can't click on 'an MMA discipline' as there is only one as far as we are concerned. I would suspect that people are using the MMA label to make themselves either more fachionable or more profitable.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Here MMA is the sport of fighting in the ring/cage and when we talk of other styles being mixed for SD etc we talk of cross training, I think we don't have as much confusion as seems to be in the States. Here MMA is understood as the stuff one does to fight in the cage/ring and not anything else. The use of capital letters I think gives the indication that it's the sport not a blending of styles for any other purpose.
I've never heard the term mixed martial arts here used to describe anything other than the style used for fighting. If someone says they do MMA here, it's accepted that it's for fighting not just the mixing of styles, there's no wider meaning here. For us there is just MMA, so I can't click on 'an MMA discipline' as there is only one as far as we are concerned. I would suspect that people are using the MMA label to make themselves either more fachionable or more profitable.

I get your point, but this very thread illustrates the confusion.......it started as a discussion of MMA as cross-training........but it keeps jumping back in forth. The original post, however, defined the terms for the purposes of the discussion.

I thought it might be interesting to begin a poll on members preferences in training.

For purposes of the poll I would offer the following definitions;

Traditonal

An older, established discipline that strictly adheres to techniques and training practices as previously set forth and passed down unchanged from generation to generation. Of course there will probably be slight alterations from time to time but in essence it is distinguished based on it's history.

MMA

A discipline probably having it's foundation in large part on a traditional style/system, but has since branched out. Utilizing concepts and techniqiues from other disciplines to reinforce or replace one's associated with the foundational structure.

These definitions are not absolutes of course. If you would like to add to, delete from, or offer and alternate definition please do so.

Thanks for participating.

:asian:

The reality is that the sport reflects the cross-training mindset, and started out that way, not the other way around.........so the 'sport' is little different than discussing boxing for sport or self-defense........

 

[Tez3]

"MMA

A discipline probably having it's foundation in large part on a traditional style/system, but has since branched out. Utilizing concepts and techniqiues from other disciplines to reinforce or replace one's associated with the foundational structure.

These definitions are not absolutes of course. If you would like to add to, delete from, or offer and alternate definition please do so.

Thanks for participating."


However the OP has said to delete, change etc his terms. To us in the UK there is only one definitition of MMA and that's as I said, the stuff you use to fight with in the cage/ring, there isn't any other definition here. MMA isn't cross training as such, it's the use of different martial arts to compete under MMA rules, nothing else.

We don't see people who cross train as having an 'MMA mindset' we see them as cross training, something that has been done for a long time. A conversation on MMA here would consist of talking about fighters, training for fights etc, there's nothing to separate 'sport MMA' from 'MMA in a wider sense', there simply isn't that wider sense. MMA is fighting in competition, training in multiple martial arts for SD, pleasure etc is cross training. Two diffferent concepts.

 

[sgtmac_46]

"MMA

A discipline probably having it's foundation in large part on a traditional style/system, but has since branched out. Utilizing concepts and techniqiues from other disciplines to reinforce or replace one's associated with the foundational structure.

These definitions are not absolutes of course. If you would like to add to, delete from, or offer and alternate definition please do so.

Thanks for participating."


However the OP has said to delete, change etc his terms. To us in the UK there is only one definitition of MMA and that's as I said, the stuff you use to fight with in the cage/ring, there isn't any other definition here. MMA isn't cross training as such, it's the use of different martial arts to compete under MMA rules, nothing else.

We don't see people who cross train as having an 'MMA mindset' we see them as cross training, something that has been done for a long time. A conversation on MMA here would consist of talking about fighters, training for fights etc, there's nothing to separate 'sport MMA' from 'MMA in a wider sense', there simply isn't that wider sense. MMA is fighting in competition, training in multiple martial arts for SD, pleasure etc is cross training. Two diffferent concepts.

Semantics........The OP defined the term at the beginning of the conversation.........it can deteriorate in to a debate over terms, but the accepted definition within the context of the thread is one defined in the first post.

The OP gave two choices.........training in a 'Traditional Discipline'.......and 'MMA'........'MMA' within that context would be presumed to be anything ELSE not considered 'TMA'..........one might debate the term itself, but that, again, would be mere semantics.

Given that the UFC and the like began as a contest between competing martial arts, not as a sport in it's own right, there certainly IS an 'MMA' in a wider sense.......the results of those early UFC's indicated that certain blendings of arts (BJJ, Wrestling, Muay Thai, Boxing, etc) worked better in that format, and likely, in the wider world.........the fact that OTHER Hybrid martial art styles (JKD, for example) came to the same conclusions long before that only reinforces the idea of an MMA in a wider sense.

Now I could be biased since I discovered the UFC in 1993, long before the current 'Sport' hype, and so I never really made such hard distinctions......I only observed that some techniques seem to work better in a variety of situations than others. Subsequent to that the training became more specialized, but that doesn't invalidate a variety of conclusions that have been arrived at.........rather, I looked at what was manifested in the ring as a merely following the logical conclusions many practioners of 'Hybrid styles' came to LONG BEFORE the words 'MMA' or 'UFC' came in to existence..........it's the nature of the thing itself.

 

[Tez3]

Hardly semantics when I'm telling you a fact on how something is looked at here is it? To you a rubber is a condom, to us it's an eraser, hardly semantics, that's what I'm trying to explain to what MMA is over here, it's simply not the same as you have it. Neither is right or wrong, I'm just trying to tell you how it is with us and why our way of seeing it is different from you which makes discussing it difficult. The OP anyhow said feel free to redefine.
The starting point of MMA for Americans is the UFC, outside the States however it's different. There were 'proper' MMA fights in various locations well before the UFC started it's 'MMA' fights as such, so we are talking from totally different view points. MMA as it is now in the UFC has been around for longer outside the USA so our frames of reference are also different. We've had Vale Tudo fighters here for a long while, competing in Japan, Russia, Brazil and Holland. A friend of mine was fighting MMA in a cage in Russia at the beginning of the nineties, didn't do well mind but thats a different story.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Hardly semantics when I'm telling you a fact on how something is looked at here is it? To you a rubber is a condom, to us it's an eraser, hardly semantics, that's what I'm trying to explain to what MMA is over here, it's simply not the same as you have it. Neither is right or wrong, I'm just trying to tell you how it is with us and why our way of seeing it is different from you which makes discussing it difficult. The OP anyhow said feel free to redefine.
The starting point of MMA for Americans is the UFC, outside the States however it's different. There were 'proper' MMA fights in various locations well before the UFC started it's 'MMA' fights as such, so we are talking from totally different view points. MMA as it is now in the UFC has been around for longer outside the USA so our frames of reference are also different. We've had Vale Tudo fighters here for a long while, competing in Japan, Russia, Brazil and Holland. A friend of mine was fighting MMA in a cage in Russia at the beginning of the nineties, didn't do well mind but thats a different story.

'Hardly semantics when I'm telling you a fact on how something is looked at here is it? To you a rubber is a condom, to us it's an eraser, hardly semantics'

That's the very definition of the word 'semantics'......when the debate becomes how a word or words are defined.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/semantics

 

[SahBumNimRush]

I will agree that Vale Tudo has been around since the early 1920's, but it was never called MMA. The term Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) was coined in 1994 by UFC commentator, Jeff Blatnick (Greco-Roman Wrestler and Olympic Gold Medalist).

I have to agree that the arguement put forth by Tez3 is truly one of semantics. Although it is important to note that as a competition, mixed martial arts competitions have been going on LONG before the UFC, which alot of people don't realize.

But as I understand it, until quite recently, these were all Mixed Style Competitions, not the homogenous stand up brawling mixed with wrestling/BJJ.

 

[REkonEyeZ]

I love mma- but def traditional - more fun not to mention safer

 

[Tez3]

I will agree that Vale Tudo has been around since the early 1920's, but it was never called MMA. The term Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) was coined in 1994 by UFC commentator, Jeff Blatnick (Greco-Roman Wrestler and Olympic Gold Medalist).

I have to agree that the arguement put forth by Tez3 is truly one of semantics. Although it is important to note that as a competition, mixed martial arts competitions have been going on LONG before the UFC, which alot of people don't realize.

But as I understand it, until quite recently, these were all Mixed Style Competitions, not the homogenous stand up brawling mixed with wrestling/BJJ.

Whatever, trying to explain how things are viewed in other countries is obviously a waste of time as only the UFC experience is the one that counts and if I tell you that what we do isn't brawling or wrestling that's a waste of time too I assume. No British fighter I know is a wrestler, most are graded BJJers or graded Judoka but that doesn't fit the UFC profile so can't be right.
The competitions we had here and in Europe were mixed martial arts ( whoever coined the phrase) in that they weren't mixed style comps, they were as you see us doing it now, BJJ/Judo AND standup, usually karate, KD or MT plus whatever works from other styles. You don't have to believe me as it again doesn't fit the UFC profile because they must be the only ones who invented fighting like this. Way back in English history you will find fights that combine boxing and grappling, long before Queensberry rules were invented.
If I explain to you the offside rule in soccer you would call it semantics because it's not American football..because both use the word football, our MMA is to soccer what yours is to American football, that's all I'm trying to explain but have it your way, you win.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Tez3, I was unaware we were competing, let alone that I won ;p

I THOUGHT I was, in fact, agreeing with you on some of the points that you made. I will attempt to make my statements more clear.

I think maybe you're getting caught up in the "semantics" comment. That wasn't a stab, just an observation. Your examples of "rubber" and "football" are both similarly a case of semantics.

I posted above in agreement that mixed style competitions ( INCLUDING VALE TUDO) have been going on long before UFC. But I think it a bit disrespectful to assume that people in the U.S. don't have any idea of what goes on outside of our country, since I am aware of many such competitions both current and historical.

So let me try this again.. . (with the help of my friend wiki)

Mixed martial arts (MMA) is a full contact combat sport that allows a wide variety of fighting techniques, from a mixture of martial arts traditions and non-traditions, to be used in competitions. The rules allow the use of striking and grappling techniques, both while standing and on the ground. Such competitions allow martial artists of different backgrounds to compete.

The roots of mixed martial arts can be traced back to various mixed style contests that took place throughout Europe, Japan and the Pacific Rim during the late 1800's. Modern MMA competition emerged in 1993 with the founding of the Ultimate Fighting Championships, although professional MMA events had been held in Japan by Shooto starting back in 1989. Originally organized with the intention of finding the most effective martial arts for real unarmed combat situations, competitors were pitted against one another with minimal rules for safety. The name mixed martial arts was coined by one of the developers of these rules, Jeff Blatnick, a former Greco-Roman wrestler and Olympic gold medalist. Following these changes, the sport has seen increased popularity with pay per view (rivaling boxing and professional wrestling).

Different forms of unorganized, no-rules, unarmed combat predate history, civilization, and the human species itself (apes have been observed engaging in hand-to-hand combats), but the earliest documented, organized, minimal-rules fighting event was the ancient Greek pankration, which was introduced into the Olympic Games in 648 B.C. Greek pankration later inspired the more violent Etruscan and Roman pancratium, an event showcased at the Roman Collesium. Even as late as the Early Middle Ages, statues were put up in Rome and other cities to honor remarkable pankratiasts of Rome.

No-holds-barred events reportedly took place in the late 1800s when wrestlers representing a huge range of fighting styles, including various catch wrestling styles, Greco-Roman wrestling and many others met in tournaments and music-hall challenge matches throughout Europe. In the USA the first major encounter between a boxer and a wrestler in modern times took place in 1887 when John Sullivan, then heavyweight world boxing champion, entered the ring with his trainer, Greco-Roman wrestling champion William Muldoon, and was slammed to the mat in two minutes.

The next publicized encounter occurred in the late 1890s when future heavyweight boxing champion Bob Fitzsimmons took on European Greco-Roman wrestling champion Ernest Roeber. Reportedly, Roeber suffered a fractured cheekbone in this bout, but was able to get Fitzsimmons down on the mat, where he applied an armlock and made the boxer submit. In Europe, around the 19th century, the Italian Giovanni Raicevich, skilled in Greco-Roman wrestling defeated Akitaro Ono, a Japanese heavyweight fighter skilled in Jujitsu, Judo, and Sumo throwing him on the mat by one-arm shoulder throw. In 1936, heavyweight boxing contender Kingfish Levinsky and veteran professional wrestler Ray Steele competed in a mixed match, which Steele won in 35 seconds.

Another early example of mixed martial arts combat was the martial art of Bartitsu, founded in London in 1899, which was the first martial art known to have combined Asian and European fighting styles, and which saw mixed style contests throughout England, pitting European and Japanese champions against representatives of various European wrestling styles. Mixed style contests such as boxing vs. jujutsu were popular entertainment throughout Europe, Japan and the Pacific Rim during the early 1900s. In Japan these contests were known as merikan, from the Japanese slang for "American [fighting]". Merikan contests were fought under a variety of rules including points decision, best of three throws or knockdowns, and victory via knockout or submission.

After the popularity of professional wrestling waned after World War I it split into two genres: :"shoot", in which the fighters actually competed, and "show", which evolved into modern professional wrestling (WWF, WWE).

In the late 1960s to early 1970s the concept of combining the elements of multiple martial arts was popularized in America by Bruce Lee via his system and philosophy of Jeet Kune Do. Lee believed that "the best fighter is not a Boxer, Karate or Judo man. The best fighter is someone who can adapt to any style." In 2004 UFC President Dana White would call Lee the "father of mixed martial arts."

So, although in the UK appearantly MMA is only cage fighting (as you state, I have nothing to base that on other than your statement), I believe that Sgt Mac was only attempting to point out the heritage that has evolved what is considered MMA today. MMA is, by definition, an extremely broad variety of systems with a similar principle or approach.

I should mention that I am not an MMA fighter in the cage fighting sense of the word. I am a traditionally trained Moo Duk Kwan practicioner, but I have trained with other martial artists and have adopted anything that I can that works for me. So I suppose many would say I am not MMA and some would say that I am. It depends on your idea of what MMA is NOW, and THAT IS A DEBATE OF SEMANTICS. And I don't believe that was the intent of the OP.

Respectfully,

Benjamin

 

[Tez3]

So it's semantics if I tell you what something is called or seen as here rather than just information? I think you also don't understand too is that when people here start with the semantics card it's seen as a hostile and negative answer to what someone was saying. A person makes a statement and another answers 'oh that's semantics' thats seen as insulting. It's like the teeenage 'whatever', not conducive to good discussion.

All I was doing was offering information on how MMA is seen here nothing more and I get attacked as if I were lying, complete with Wiki. I'm not saying other people aren't doing MMA, I was merely saying that here MMA is only the one thing and you have all taken it as an attack rather than an interesting piece of information. I don't feel inclined in the least to share information about my country or it's habits with people who attack you for telling them about it. It comes over as arrogant I'm afraid.

 

[sgtmac_46]

So it's semantics if I tell you what something is called or seen as here rather than just information? I think you also don't understand too is that when people here start with the semantics card it's seen as a hostile and negative answer to what someone was saying. A person makes a statement and another answers 'oh that's semantics' thats seen as insulting. It's like the teeenage 'whatever', not conducive to good discussion.

All I was doing was offering information on how MMA is seen here nothing more and I get attacked as if I were lying, complete with Wiki. I'm not saying other people aren't doing MMA, I was merely saying that here MMA is only the one thing and you have all taken it as an attack rather than an interesting piece of information. I don't feel inclined in the least to share information about my country or it's habits with people who attack you for telling them about it. It comes over as arrogant I'm afraid.

You're offering how the term 'MMA' is defined there.......which is fine........but it's still by definition semantics.

What you're telling me is the 'CONNOTATION' (the subjective interpretation) of MMA where you live......that's fine, but what we're doing here is using the LITERAL DEFINITION, the 'DENOTATION' (the objective definition) of the words 'MIXED......MARTIAL.......ARTS'.

What we are talking about here is (Pick your word) Hybrid Martial Arts, Mixed Martial Training, whatever you want to call it.

By very definitions of the words 'Mixed Martial Artist' one who mixes martial arts together IS a 'Mixed Martial Artist'.......if one is a 'Mixed Martial Arts Fighter' one is competing in CONTESTS of 'Mixed Martial Arts' (Professional and amateur), or SPORT MMA.........lets not get all tied up in to words..........for the purposes of this discussion, we'll use the broader definition............when we're talking about the sport we'll call it Sport MMA.

It's really no different than talking about 'Sport Boxing' versus 'Boxing for self-defense'........both are boxing.

 

[sgtmac_46]

in the late 1960s to early 1970s the concept of combining the elements of multiple martial arts was popularized in america by bruce lee via his system and philosophy of jeet kune do. Lee believed that "the best fighter is not a boxer, karate or judo man. The best fighter is someone who can adapt to any style." in 2004 ufc president dana white would call lee the "father of mixed martial arts."

so, although in the uk appearantly mma is only cage fighting (as you state, i have nothing to base that on other than your statement), i believe that sgt mac was only attempting to point out the heritage that has evolved what is considered mma today. Mma is, by definition, an extremely broad variety of systems with a similar principle or approach.

I should mention that i am not an mma fighter in the cage fighting sense of the word. I am a traditionally trained moo duk kwan practicioner, but i have trained with other martial artists and have adopted anything that i can that works for me. So i suppose many would say i am not mma and some would say that i am. It depends on your idea of what mma is now, and that is a debate of semantics. And i don't believe that was the intent of the op.

Respectfully,

benjamin

exactly!