Traditional martial art techniques in MMA

[JowGaWolf]

I found this video while looking for another video for another discussion and I thought that it would be nice to share.

Before the words start flying. Not all of the techniques are specific to kung fu, so the MMA fighter may not have even studied kung fu, but did study other traditional martial arts.

I didn't listen to the guy's comment at the end. I figure everyone would have something more meaningful to say about the techniques. Usually with videos like this the comments are a little off and not entirely accurate. However, the techniques that were listed are definitely found in many traditional martial arts, although some of the comparisons were off.

I will definitely be using some of this video to highlight some of the traditional martial arts techniques for the purpose of helping my students to understand the the difference between form and application and how some of the techniques are either the same or similar to the techniques that are done in Jow Ga. It provides a good representation of the challenges such as timing, position, and other elements.

 

[Steve]

I've said many times, it's not the techniques but how they're trained, Adding the competitive element makes all the difference... for that person.

 

[marques]

The techniques I don't know/use seem to me they did by chance. (How it all looks like for the one who never trained?)

I really need the slow motion for some of them. 100's hours of training to apply techniques that I even did "not see". Plus 100's of hours for the techniques that did not have a chance under the cameras... This is why (MMA) fighters deserve some good $$$.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[drop bear]

I've said many times, it's not the techniques but how they're trained, Adding the competitive element makes all the difference... for that person.

Well sometimes it is the techniques.

 

[frank raud]

"I didn't listen to the guy's comment at the end" Wise decision. "Bruce Lee was actually the first person to bring together different martial arts forms." Good grasp of history right there.

 

[Steve]

Well sometimes it is the techniques.

I guess I'm presuming that bad technique won't survuve good training.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Yeah, the comments at the end were pretty off base. It shouldn't be a surprise that techniques from traditional arts are found in MMA - that's where the techniques of MMA come from in the first place. MMA is just a particular approach to training, testing and applying those techniques.

Claiming all the techniques for "Kung Fu" is a bit of a stretch. Given that all the techniques shown are found in multiple arts and that "Kung Fu" is a catch-all term for hundreds of different CMAs, it's not surprising that you can find at least rough analogues for the moves in one style of Kung Fu or another. However in some cases It was clear that the MMA fighter was using the Capoeira or Karate or BJJ version of a technique rather than the Kung Fu version showed in comparison.

 

[Danny T]

Forms, Drills, Applications.
Often the applications don't look like the form or drills.
Have said this often and get chastised for it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Forms, Drills, Applications.
Often the applications don't look like the form or drills.
Have said this often and get chastised for it.

Really? I thought that would be something that many people would understand.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Often the applications don't look like the form or drills.

This only happen that when a technique should not be used at that particular moment and you try to use it. If your "single leg", or "hip throw" doesn't look like how you should train, it won't work on the mat.

 

[wingerjim]

I found this video while looking for another video for another discussion and I thought that it would be nice to share.

Before the words start flying. Not all of the techniques are specific to kung fu, so the MMA fighter may not have even studied kung fu, but did study other traditional martial arts.

I didn't listen to the guy's comment at the end. I figure everyone would have something more meaningful to say about the techniques. Usually with videos like this the comments are a little off and not entirely accurate. However, the techniques that were listed are definitely found in many traditional martial arts, although some of the comparisons were off.

I will definitely be using some of this video to highlight some of the traditional martial arts techniques for the purpose of helping my students to understand the the difference between form and application and how some of the techniques are either the same or similar to the techniques that are done in Jow Ga. It provides a good representation of the challenges such as timing, position, and other elements.

Nice video. That was fun to watch, so thank you for posting.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This only happen that when a technique should not be used at that particular moment and you try to use it. If your "single leg", or "hip throw" doesn't look like how you should train, it won't work on the mat.

This is not universally true, KFW. I can think of several techniques in NGA where the short form is the easiest way to learn the basic movements and principles, but the applications don't necessarily look anything like the form. For instance, we recognize 6 variants of the Arm Bar. Only one of them (two in a stretch) actually ever look like the form, and many of the applications to that one variant actually don't look much like the form, because of changes in body mechanics (height, natural resistance of the opponent, etc.). And sometimes the technique in application works better than it does in the form, which can change rather dramatically how it looks.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I can think of several techniques in NGA where the short form is the easiest way to learn the basic movements and principles, but the applications don't necessarily look anything like the form.

The reason that your application may not look like your form because you have not fully map your "abstract" form into "concrete" application yet.

I don't train "abstract" form. I only train "concrete" application drill.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The reason that your application may not look like your form because you have not fully map your "abstract" form into "concrete" application yet.

I don't train "abstract" form. I only train "concrete" application drill.

It's not a mapping issue. They actually look different.

 

[Flying Crane]

This only happen that when a technique should not be used at that particular moment and you try to use it. If your "single leg", or "hip throw" doesn't look like how you should train, it won't work on the mat.

1. Nah
2. Who says I am doing a single leg (takedown, I assume you mean) or a hip throw?

 

[Flying Crane]

The reason that your application may not look like your form because you have not fully map your "abstract" form into "concrete" application yet.

I don't train "abstract" form. I only train "concrete" application drill.

I guess I just train.

And I understand that there is a developmental process that bridges the gap between the basic and fundamental concept of a technique, and how it is put into actual application, and what it looks like when that is done.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

2. Who says I am doing a single leg (takedown, I assume you mean) or a hip throw?

Let's just talk about the striking art.

You form may have a "side kick, back reverse punch" sequence. If you map it into concrete application drills. You may try all different kind of kicks and punches combinations, your fight will look like one of your drills that you have trained.

For example, if your MA system has 5 kicks and 4 punches, there will be 5 x 4 = 20 different "kick, punch" combo. It depends on whether you train those 20 drills or just 1 sequence from your solo form such as "side kick, back reverse punch".

 

[Flying Crane]

Let's just talk about the striking art.

You form may have a "side kick, back reverse punch" sequence. If you map it into concrete application drills. You may try all different kind of kicks and punches combinations, your fight will look like one of your drills that you have trained.

For example, if your MA system has 5 kicks and 4 punches, there will be 5 x 4 = 20 different "kick, punch" combo. It depends on whether you train those 20 drills or just 1 sequence from your solo form such as "side kick, back reverse punch".

I disagree. The developmental way of training a punch often looks different from the application.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I disagree. The developmental way of training a punch often looks different from the application.

Let's just talk about "how to train a punch".

If you can train all your punches (such as jab, cross, uppercut, hook, back fist, hammer fist, side punch, ...) from all your stances (such as horse stance, bow-arrow stance, 4-6 stance, 3-7 stance, monkey stance, striking tiger stance, 7 star stance, chicken stance, cat stance, YJKYM, ...), you can cover and exhaust all different punch possibilities.

In other words, the way that you throw a punch in fighting should map to at least one of your training drills (if you have trained all the possible training drills).

IMO, your body will not move in such a way that you have not trained yourself to do so.

 

[Flying Crane]

Let's just talk about "how to train a punch".

If you can train all your punches (such as jab, cross, uppercut, hook, back fist, hammer fist, side punch, ...) from all your stances (such as horse stance, bow-arrow stance, 4-6 stance, 3-7 stance, monkey stance, striking tiger stance, 7 star stance, chicken stance, cat stance, YJKYM, ...), you can cover and exhaust all different punch possibilities.

In other words, the way that you throw a punch in fighting should map to at least one of your training drills (if you have trained all the possible training drills).

IMO, your body will not move in such a way that you have not trained yourself to do so.

There are fundamental ways of training a punch that are meant to put extra emphasis on body connection from the root all the way up the legs and torso and down the arm to the fist. But this is a training mechanism. The movements of the punch are much more exaggerated. The punch is not meant to be used in this way in an actual fight. Once you understand the body connection, then you can use the punch without the exaggeration, but still engage the body connection and tap into that power.

However, it continues to be good practice to practice punching with that training mechanism.

The training punch looks different from how you would use it.

And why do you need so many stances?