TKD is Weak on the street as a self defense?

[TrueJim]

Except for Ground Hog Day...

...and Edge of Tomorrow!

 

[Steve]

Experience.

Do you see that drop bear was describing actual experience with self defense on wet grass and you’re completely ignoring it?

 

[Steve]

...and Edge of Tomorrow!

The irony of referencing make believe movies as a response to a comment about real life is not lost on me.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Do you see that drop bear was describing actual experience with self defense on wet grass and you’re completely ignoring it?

Yeah, but he has a tie-dyed gi and wants some shiny kickboxing pants. I don't think we can trust his experience, Steve.

 

[Paul_D]

...and Edge of Tomorrow!

and Edge of Tomorrow!

 

[drop bear]

Is it just me, or is it always XYZ Grandmaster is 80 years old and MMA fighter is a 20-something year old active competitor? Skews the odds a bit. And if it’s a 20-30 something year old grandmaster, they’re pretty much guaranteed to be a fraud.

But yeah, if you don’t actually hit and get hit, you’re not going to fare well when someone’s willing to actually hit you and get hit. More so theory vs practice at work than anything else IMO.

Unless it is boxing.

 

[DaveB]

Do you see that drop bear was describing actual experience with self defense on wet grass and you’re completely ignoring it?

I haven't ignored anything, I just had nothing I felt I needed to add.
The real world examples he gave didnt actually answer my question. Rather they confirmed my point that sport only training, particularly where tkd is concerned, has gaps in the body of knowledge one might want for self defence.

Drop Bear's need to proclaim sport as the be all and end all of martial arts amounted to a "yeah, but.." with the usual allusion to some traditionalist dogma as the only possible source for dissenting opinions.

If you look a bit further back youll see i haven't particularly disagreed with either of you. I just add a qualifier that it seems one or both of you are not happy with.

 

[Steve]

I haven't ignored anything, I just had nothing I felt I needed to add.
The real world examples he gave didnt actually answer my question. Rather they confirmed my point that sport only training, particularly where tkd is concerned, has gaps in the body of knowledge one might want for self defence.

Drop Bear's need to proclaim sport as the be all and end all of martial arts amounted to a "yeah, but.." with the usual allusion to some traditionalist dogma as the only possible source for dissenting opinions.

If you look a bit further back youll see i haven't particularly disagreed with either of you. I just add a qualifier that it seems one or both of you are not happy with.

Okay. I apologize for doubting you. How many times have you fought in wet grass? Is this something you do often?

 

[drop bear]

Yeah, but he has a tie-dyed gi and wants some shiny kickboxing pants. I don't think we can trust his experience, Steve.

Fear not the man who owns a thousand GI,s.

Fear the man who gets his GI tie dyed.

"Plato"

 

[Steve]

Fear not the man who owns a thousand GI,s.

Fear the man who gets his GI tie dyed.

"Plato"

I’ve tie dyed a few Gi for friends.

 

[DaveB]

Okay. I apologize for doubting you. How many times have you fought in wet grass? Is this something you do often?

The keyword of my question to DB was "trained".

My point was that the years of sport tkd training I did were all centred around a safe obstacle free environment, against a single opponent with no kicking below the waist or punching to the face etc etc. When i sparred with a wing chun training friend in his garden one morning I suddenly found myself unable to use my entire tkd arsenal because the ground was too slippery. I had to call back on my SD oriented Shotokan training.

Other than that, in the 10 years I spent policing north London streets there were a couple of occasions of needing to fight someone on wet ground, as well as rocky ground, as well as obstacle filled small spaces, as well as times when grappling with one person on the ground meant being vulnerable to attack from others.... etc.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The keyword of my question to DB was "trained".

My point was that the years of sport tkd training I did were all centred around a safe obstacle free environment, against a single opponent with no kicking below the waist or punching to the face etc etc. When i sparred with a wing chun training friend in his garden one morning I suddenly found myself unable to use my entire tkd arsenal because the ground was too slippery. I had to call back on my SD oriented Shotokan training.

Other than that, in the 10 years I spent policing north London streets there were a couple of occasions of needing to fight someone on wet ground, as well as rocky ground, as well as obstacle filled small spaces, as well as times when grappling with one person on the ground meant being vulnerable to attack from others.... etc.

This reminds me that it has been too long since I trained kicks on a bad surface. I’ve changed some of my kicks, and need to see how they work on poor footing. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[JR 137]

This reminds me that it has been too long since I trained kicks on a bad surface. I’ve changed some of my kicks, and need to see how they work on poor footing. Thanks for the reminder.

Go to the local bowling alley, rent some bowling shoes, and start practicing your kicks on a lane. You’ll probably get several minutes of practice in, then you’d get some time to actually use those skills. It’s a win-win. Unless of course the employee calls for some backup. Then again, you’ll get some multiple attacker training in too.

 

[Steve]

The keyword of my question to DB was "trained".

My point was that the years of sport tkd training I did were all centred around a safe obstacle free environment, against a single opponent with no kicking below the waist or punching to the face etc etc. When i sparred with a wing chun training friend in his garden one morning I suddenly found myself unable to use my entire tkd arsenal because the ground was too slippery. I had to call back on my SD oriented Shotokan training.

Other than that, in the 10 years I spent policing north London streets there were a couple of occasions of needing to fight someone on wet ground, as well as rocky ground, as well as obstacle filled small spaces, as well as times when grappling with one person on the ground meant being vulnerable to attack from others.... etc.

When I read your post above, I don’t see a training issue. I see the value of experience. Training isn’t the answer to ecerything.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

When I read your post above, I don’t see a training issue. I see the value of experience. Training isn’t the answer to ecerything.

He pointed out he has experience. I wouldn't expect most folks to set aside their own experience in favor of someone else's, unless there is something significantly different that meets a need.

 

[Steve]

He pointed out he has experience. I wouldn't expect most folks to set aside their own experience in favor of someone else's, unless there is something significantly different that meets a need.

Right. Exactly. It’s not a training issue. There’s more than one way to skin a cat. It’s an indication of the value of experience. Ehat am I missing? Did I give the impression that I’m disregarding @DaveB experi nice? My intent is the opposite. It sounds like his experience filled the gap left by training pretty handily.

 

[skribs]

Are you trying to suggest that you wile have time to read people during a SD encounter ?

I'm talking about reading shoulders, reading eyes, seeing what an unpredictable opponent is doing.

Many ball players (i.e. football, baseball, etc) say the game "slows down" as you get more experience. What's really happening is they're building neural pathways to speed up the information flow when they see something. So a rookie batter may be trying to figure out what every ball that's coming at him is, but an experienced batter may be able to tell at a quick glance what pitch is coming and bat accordingly.

Experience can be the difference between "that punch came out of nowhere" and seeing the same punch coming miles away.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Right. Exactly. It’s not a training issue. There’s more than one way to skin a cat. It’s an indication of the value of experience. Ehat am I missing? Did I give the impression that I’m disregarding @DaveB experi nice? My intent is the opposite. It sounds like his experience filled the gap left by training pretty handily.

Looking back at my post, I'm not sure what my point was, Steve.

 

[Paul_D]

I'm talking about reading shoulders, reading eyes, seeing what an unpredictable opponent is doing.

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

QUOTE="skribs, post: 1875451, member: 31615"]
Experience can be the difference between "that punch came out of nowhere" and seeing the same punch coming miles away.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps, but I would say experience in regard to SD would mean you strike preemptively. if you are waiting to the point where they are throwing pucnehs then your SD skills are severally lacking.

 

[skribs]

Perhaps, but I would say experience in regard to SD would mean you strike preemptively. if you are waiting to the point where they are throwing pucnehs then your SD skills are severally lacking.

Depends on local laws and the situation.