TKD and quality of teaching.

[bluewaveschool]

I'll put this another way. forget about orgs, and bring it down to a smaller scale.
Lots of instructers on this board. How many of us would like to have the quality of our instruction judged by having someone watch our worst student, even on their best day?

You mean the student that makes you wish you could hit them with a stick for doing things wrong like they say it was done in old Korea?

 

[Gnarlie]

You mean the student that makes you wish you could hit them with a stick for doing things wrong like they say it was done in old Korea?

The one that doesn't seem to realise that they have a joint in the middle of each leg. The one that is the reason you wake up each day and are thankful that you are not such an uncoordinated, talentless buffoon. The one who has been with you for 3 years but still can't be left to train unsupervised as they bring the standard of those around them down. *shudders*

Gnarlie

 

[Earl Weiss]

You mean the student that makes you wish you could hit them with a stick for doing things wrong like they say it was done in old Korea?

Geez and I thought I was the only ones with those kinds of thoughts.

General Choi had a saying: "Pain is a wonderful instructor. But no one wants to go to his class."

 

[bluewaveschool]

The very student i was thinking about when I said that asked me last night when he was testing next. I think he's been a yellow belt about... 6 or 7 months now. I told him that he'd test when he was ready... so at this rate, maybe christmas at the earliest.

 

[StudentCarl]

The one that doesn't seem to realise that they have a joint in the middle of each leg. The one that is the reason you wake up each day and are thankful that you are not such an uncoordinated, talentless buffoon. The one who has been with you for 3 years but still can't be left to train unsupervised as they bring the standard of those around them down. *shudders*

Gnarlie

I see it differently. Those are the students who have the most to gain, though their progress may be slowest. The highly athletic, quick learners make you feel good as an instructor, but the ones who struggle make you struggle too. The students I like most are the ones who have the heart and drive to fight for every gain, though they may never have the smooth and effortless look. IMO, the real measure of an instructor isn't how your thoroughbred student makes you look, it's how far you can help your mutts shine compared to where they were. Usually those people are the salt of the earth, not the ones who can give 80% effort and still make everyone else look uncoordinated. Read Elie Wiesel's book 'Night', about surviving the Holocaust...it's the struggling ones who really understand Perseverence and Indomitable Spirit.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I see it differently. Those are the students who have the most to gain, though their progress may be slowest. The highly athletic, quick learners make you feel good as an instructor, but the ones who struggle make you struggle too. The students I like most are the ones who have the heart and drive to fight for every gain, though they may never have the smooth and effortless look.

Those students may also end up being the best teachers down the road, because they've had to struggle through every roadblock and so end up knowing how to advise other students who run into those same obstacles. Often the people who are naturally talented in a field are so used to doing things intuitively that they don't know how to break things down for those who aren't so gifted.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I see it differently. Those are the students who have the most to gain, though their progress may be slowest. The highly athletic, quick learners make you feel good as an instructor, but the ones who struggle make you struggle too. QUOTE]

I think I am like most instructors who have no issues with people whose bodies make progress difficult and work hard. Also no issue with those who take a while to grasp certain things.

The ones I refer to are those who can "fix" the issue when you tell them, understand the issue, have no physical issues fixing the issue but even after telling them 42 times to fix it, they will still repeat the previous errors. You can then look at them sideways and they will fix it.

One of my lines is (after they fx the issue): "Now you are in big trouble. Do you know why? Because now I now you know how to do it right, and have no problem doing it right, so if you mess it up again I know you are just being lazy or not paying attention."

Works sometimes.

But, back to the OP, different people perform differently and few (if any among us) would want to be judged as instructors by our worst student on their best day.

 

[Kframe]

Well i guess you can call 31 young. Me and my old man had alot of issues growing up and we have managed to patch up most things and have a better relationship today. This feeling of wanting him to approve of what im doing is a hold over from that time, its like the 3rd to last major thing i have yet to accomplish in my life.

I did not mean to start this thread making people think i was judging my sparring partner, far from it. I was hopeing for insight and ways i can add to what i do in sparring to help him over come his apparent fear. Outsider what i ment by sparring in his training, i should have clarified alot better then i ment to. My thinking was that, he had atleast 4 years invested in his training, and it does involve sparring of some fashion. What i didnt expect was a fear of being attacked. Regardless of were the attacks are aimed i kinda expected him to be mentaly ready to deal with them. Its not a stretch to imagine that he can adapt his training to deal with the attacks coming in higher then normal. For im sure you tkd people do some kind of defense drills involveing protecting the head. Thats what i ment by my statement about his 4 years of training and sparring.

In a nut shell its my fualt for not being more specific, and would like some ways to help him with his issue. I learn from him everytime we go be it striking or grappling, he forces me to think about my approach each time we break, cuase if i dont, my ribs will be sore quickly. I am jealous of him in a way as well. He has a far bigger arsonal of strikes then i do. Coach only focus's on the primary kicks, front and round, with a smattering of others. For good reason imho as they are the primary ones we use in compitition and fights and sparring due to the risk vs reward ratio they have. He has a wide assortment of kicks he can use in various situations and i can only wish i had that.

 

[RobinTKD]

It's a long discussion that has been repeated several times here on MT, but Okinawan karate 'blocks' are not blocks. No one is going to use uchi uke, age uke, or gedan barai singly in a real fight. No one that has trained beyond the simple "air karate line drill" paradigm anyway. Blocks in my kind of karate are generally strikes or entries or part of some other combination movement such as locking and throwing.

This is exactly what we are taught.

 

[outsider0506]

... Outsider what i ment by sparring in his training, i should have clarified alot better then i ment to. My thinking was that, he had atleast 4 years invested in his training, and it does involve sparring of some fashion. What i didnt expect was a fear of being attacked. Regardless of were the attacks are aimed i kinda expected him to be mentaly ready to deal with them. Its not a stretch to imagine that he can adapt his training to deal with the attacks coming in higher then normal. For im sure you tkd people do some kind of defense drills involveing protecting the head. Thats what i ment by my statement about his 4 years of training and sparring...

It is a poor assumption that the TKD person you're working with has a lot of experience dealing with hand techniques to the head region. If he was trained in Olympic TKD sparring only, the only thing that would be going for your head would be your opponent's foot, which is usually pretty easy to see. The defense for that is either evade the kick or raise one of your hands/arms above your head to protect that side of your head. It is a gross motion and not usually drilled. Thus, it is not necessary to keep the hands up to protect the head area. You can watch what Olympic TKD matches look like on YouTube.

To be clear, Olympic/Kukkiwon/WTF TKD sparring is purely sport and definitely not combat preparation. Yes, it contains some elements that would be useful in an SD situation, but it is not SD or combat at all.

Also, pretty much anyone can get a 1st Dan in TKD if you show up to class 2-3 times a week for 3-4 years (in Korea make that 5 times a week for 1 year!). 1st Dan (even through 3rd Dan) is considered a pretty low grade in TKD. 1st Dan is considered an achievable level for pretty much anyone who wants to participate in the sport.

I think what I'm saying is that your expectations of what a 1st Dan in TKD should be able to do may be a little off. I would not expect that just because someone holds a 1st Dan in TKD that they would even survive an encounter with multiple assailants. As others have mentioned earlier, they hand out 1st Dan to 76 year old women! Yes, the 76 year old woman has achieved something in the art, but is that woman a deadly weapon ready for combat against any number of assailants: no. On the other hand, I've seen 18 year old 1st Dans that were absolute weapons in street fights; definitely people that you'd want with you when the going got tough.

You have to look at the individual, not the belt to evaluate someone. Not all TKD practitioners are the same. :wink:

 

[Tez3]

It is a poor assumption that the TKD person you're working with has a lot of experience dealing with hand techniques to the head region. If he was trained in Olympic TKD sparring only, the only thing that would be going for your head would be your opponent's foot, which is usually pretty easy to see. The defense for that is either evade the kick or raise one of your hands/arms above your head to protect that side of your head. It is a gross motion and not usually drilled. Thus, it is not necessary to keep the hands up to protect the head area. You can watch what Olympic TKD matches look like on YouTube.

To be clear, Olympic/Kukkiwon/WTF TKD sparring is purely sport and definitely not combat preparation. Yes, it contains some elements that would be useful in an SD situation, but it is not SD or combat at all.

Also, pretty much anyone can get a 1st Dan in TKD if you show up to class 2-3 times a week for 3-4 years (in Korea make that 5 times a week for 1 year!). 1st Dan (even through 3rd Dan) is considered a pretty low grade in TKD. 1st Dan is considered an achievable level for pretty much anyone who wants to participate in the sport.

I think what I'm saying is that your expectations of what a 1st Dan in TKD should be able to do may be a little off. I would not expect that just because someone holds a 1st Dan in TKD that they would even survive an encounter with multiple assailants. As others have mentioned earlier, they hand out 1st Dan to 76 year old women! Yes, the 76 year old woman has achieved something in the art, but is that woman a deadly weapon ready for combat against any number of assailants: no. On the other hand, I've seen 18 year old 1st Dans that were absolute weapons in street fights; definitely people that you'd want with you when the going got tough.

You have to look at the individual, not the belt to evaluate someone. Not all TKD practitioners are the same. :wink:

Bit generalised that! http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...lar-t-shirt-and-dark-pants-southeast-12th-way, there's a lot more stories like that one!
Not all old ladies are the same!!

 

[outsider0506]

I stand corrected! :wink:

 

[Tez3]

I stand corrected! :wink:

Well I am an old lady!!

 

[Kframe]

Outsider, i see what you and the others are saying. I just thought that, even in the non sparring, the normal tecnique practice and other stuff that there was defensive movements that were practiced. Hmm i guess im am stil have much to learn. I will admit tho, that i thought that belt rank was a easy way judge someone, apparently thats not the case.

So, Do you guys have any suggestions for me, on how i can be a better sparring partner and help him through this. I want to help him grow, and be a better fighter as much as i do. I would imagine it to involve some fashion of controlled sparring.

 

[outsider0506]

... I would imagine it to involve some fashion of controlled sparring.

I think you hit it right on the head... All sparring during training should be conducted with control. So what does control mean? Being technical and fighting with intensity, without 100% power. Test and develop your power on the pads or bags. You don't want to beat up on your sparring partner or you won't have anyone to work with to improve your own skills. Alternately, if you get a training partner that beats up on you all the time, you might end up getting side-lined with injuries and are not able to train to improve your skills.

When you're working with someone, you should only be hitting them as hard as they hit you. If you guys make a respectful agreement (silent or verbal) to focus on the technique and not the power during your sparring sessions, you will both likely get more out of it.

 

[outsider0506]

... I just thought that, even in the non sparring, the normal tecnique practice and other stuff that there was defensive movements that were practiced....

Just to clarify, defensive movements ARE taught in Olympic TKD, but they're specialized to the rules of the sport. The defensive movements for blocking PUNCHES to the face are irrelevant in Olympic TKD matchs since it is illegal to strike the head with the fist in Olympic TKD.

TKD does have the traditional "blocks" found in Japanese/Okinawan systems, but for the rule set of Olympic TKD these techniques are pretty much useless. These techniques are still practiced in one and three step sparring and rather rigid self defense routines. I doubt that these techniques would be any use the the context of an MMA match.

 

[Cyriacus]

Just to clarify, defensive movements ARE taught in Olympic TKD, but they're specialized to the rules of the sport. The defensive movements for blocking PUNCHES to the face are irrelevant in Olympic TKD matchs since it is illegal to strike the head with the fist in Olympic TKD.

TKD does have the traditional "blocks" found in Japanese/Okinawan systems, but for the rule set of Olympic TKD these techniques are pretty much useless. These techniques are still practiced in one and three step sparring and rather rigid self defense routines. I doubt that these techniques would be any use the the context of an MMA match.

You might be surprised.
It may not be very literal in its interpretation, but for example, the Low Section Forearm Block found in TKD and Karate can block a midsection round kick. Then it can scoop their leg. In other words, it can be a method of catching a kick. The less literally you look at those types of movements the more useful they can seem.
Raising Block, if done slightly diagonally, is a good parry if Your hands are down.