WTF Taeguk question from a outsider.

[Manny]

About TKD poomsae I can tell you that they have inside some moves that actualy resembles part of a fight, not all movements are (in my eyes) part of a self defense, as somebody wrote here before, poomsae teachs you many things, like balance for example. When I do some one steps using some of the techs inside poomsae I use the ones easy to learn and aply and forget about the clumsy ones.

Manny

 

[zDom]

There are a lot of places in the Taegueks that we used to aim kicks higher than specified.

I was taught, and teach, that particular sequence differently: midsection kick low enough to "fold" them them toward you, grab opponents head and pull it into the elbow strike. Fun sequence.

 

[msmitht]

It may not be a punch that was being blocked. How about a bostaff (downaward ax attack) that is being blocked.

Can you say broken arm?

 

[msmitht]

When we were switching over to the TaeGueks a couple of years ago we were working with a couple who are into the international competition area and I asked them the theory behind some of the moves. Their response: "There is no theory in the TaeGueks" I believe its one of the things that makes me wonder why we switched to them. While they do teach things they also teach some what I would consider pretty poor and improper movements.

You should say that when you go to korea in front of a test panel and see if they promote you.

 

[Tez3]

Can you say broken arm?

Having said that, before we got a cage for the fight nights it was a big old fashioned boxing ring, the corner poles were very heavy metal. A lad was holding one of these up for my instructor to fix when the lad let go to answer his phone ( he wasn't very bright at the best of times) the pole came down and out of instinct my instructor put his arm up in a 'high' block, the pole slid off his arm. The arm was very sore and bruised to be sure but not broken and it was better than being hit on the head with it!

 

[ATC]

The movement that you speak about is indeed one that would work for a punch. The block is delivered in a long stance, you need to be in an up right position when you bring up your back foot for a side kick and not move forward or lean forward when doing the side kick. A slight lean back and high tight chamber is needed to kick at the correct distance. I see no problem with the two techniques and the distance is correct. If you are doing the form correctly and simply not kicking out long without the proper chamber then you should be at the correct distance. A punch would extend out away from the head of the opponent delivering it. Your block would be at the point of the wrist or forearm of the attacker, so the head of the attacker is still foot to 2 feet away from you. When you lean back to kick your head is now a good 3 to 4 feet away from your attackers head making the distance for the side kick just about perfect.

Look at the video of the Korean Team doing Taeguk Oh Jang, no imagine where a punch and the head would be for high block then side kick. It all fits unless you or the attacker is still moving forward.

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[troubleenuf]

You should say that when you go to korea in front of a test panel and see if they promote you.

Actually I have found over the years that the Koreans in Korea are not the all knowing people that some of you seem to think they are.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Ok, as most know im a outsider when it comes to TKD. Some day i plan on rectifying that, when i can afford (both time and money wise) to do both my combatives and TKD. So i was on youtube watching some WTF forms, Taeguk 5-8. Ok since i do kickboxing with some kenpo karate and jujitsu as my martial art(mma lol) i had a application question regarding Taeguk 5(i think it was 5).

Part way during taeguk 5 they have the practitioner doing a highblock(upper block as my coach calls it) then immediately doing a high side kick to the head. The upper block is mostly used on punches, at least thats how we practice it. Im having a hard time figuring out how i would block the punch then immediately do a high side kick to the head. The problem lies in the range. If your attacker is in range to punch you and you sucsessfully deflect it upwards, he will be to close to do that high side kick to the head. Here is the video i was watching.

Now i cant lead leg side kick that high yet, so maybe its my own hang up with it thats irking me. Can that move be sucsessfully employed in punching range as is demonstrated by the form? For me im having a hard time seeing it only becuase of the close range of the encounter.

Ulgul makki (face defense; what you call a high block) can be used against a punch or against a head level kick, the goal being to redirect it away from your face.

As has already been noted, the Taegeuk pumse are not simulated fights. Each one follows the pattern of one of the palgwe (eight divination signs, four of which are on the Korean flag) and represents different characteristics.

This is the description given in the textbook to the best of my recollection: "Taegeuk Ohjang is in the pattern of son, and represents the wind, meaning both mighty fore and calmness according to its strength and weakness."

As you perform any of the pumse, you should do so with their meaning in mind. It does affect how you perform the pumse.

Hope that helps.

 

[ETinCYQX]

The taegeuks are not intended to be choreographed fights. It's really that simple.

Yeah, what he said.

Don't bother looking for specific applications because they aren't there. The lessons in Kukkiwon poomsae are more esoteric like DD said.

 

[Tez3]

Yeah, what he said.

Don't bother looking for specific applications because they aren't there. The lessons in Kukkiwon poomsae are more esoteric like DD said.

So, not to be compared to karate katas at all other than neither are choreographed fights?

 

[Dirty Dog]

So, not to be compared to karate katas at all other than neither are choreographed fights?

Oh, I think you can make all sorts of comparisons, and dig up all sorts of bunkai. Doing so is fun, informative and useful. But that's not the same as saying that the similarities/differences/applications were planned in from the start.

For example: when teaching a high block, I'm willing to be most people will give an example of how that block could be used. I.E. "if there's a punch coming at your face, this deflects it up..." When working with students I often ask them to think of other ways the technique can be used, and as they advance I stress the importance of thinking of both offensive and defensive applications for techniques and combinations of technigues.

The same thing can be done with poomsae. The specific combination mentioned by the OP could be a lot of things. How about... blocking a face punch by A while sidekicking B. Or.... blocking a high kick from A and countering with a sidekick. Or...using the "high block" as an upwards forearm strike under the chin of your opponent (which moves them backwards) and followup with a sidekick. Or...

Being able to think of practical applications for combinations shown in poomsae is not the same as believing that these applications were designed in from the start.

 

[ETinCYQX]

So, not to be compared to karate katas at all other than neither are choreographed fights?

I think it's fundamentally the same principle but from my understanding of kata in karate, not as integral to everything else if that makes sense. DD answered the question better than I can.