Timing and relaxtion training sparring.

[dudewingchun]

I think its good for everyone to post some vids of training, Keeps it alive and real. Bjj guys are constantly sparring and evolving but then all the wing chun stuff is videos of Sifus wasting there students in chi sao or in fighting " scenarios" . Its quite nerve racking at first to spar, but if you leave your ego behind and just focus on improving then its all gravy.

 

[Jake104]

Here's the guy I was sparring vid. I'm in his highlight reel. In my defense I tripped lol. I stepped in a hole. We are part of the same organization. DTE
Oh he's 6.4" and 270lbs. I'm 5.11" 190lbs

 

[marques]

reduce the amount of space between your hands and your head

Even top professional do that 'mistake', but it was my first though.

Your partner, with more a few training months, will take advantage of your desorientation and slowness (due to long movements).
And you cannot counter effectively. Your range is already put in the defence.
But it is just my opinion based on my experience. After that, everything is possible....

I would spar slower, specially for relax, timing and observation training. And put more footwork.

I think it is great to film ourselves. I have no idea about my weaknesses or what I look like till see myself in movie. And I didn't do it enough...

 

[Jake104]

Oh true, well then good job. Yea the bridging was fine, just kind of hard to see. But yea the imagery helps and you actually put a vid of you sparring doing what you say.
Thats what im working on is getting good timing and been able to stay relaxed. If you cant relax then its quite hard to do anything really. Hope my reply didnt come across as angry or anything.
I feel like wing chun can actually go really well with bjj/ grappling arts. Im just about to get into bjj and from the few lessons iv had i can see where bits and pieces can fit.

No you didn't, it's all good. I had bunch of videos on youtube. I took them down cause keyboard warriors were getting annoying. In the 4 years since. My WC has changed and will continue too. I really enjoy choking out people now while standing.

 

[dudewingchun]

No you didn't, it's all good. I had bunch of videos on youtube. I took them down cause keyboard warriors were getting annoying. In the 4 years since. My WC has changed and will continue too. I really enjoy choking out people now while standing.

Im planning on taking some more over time, Aslong as my sparring partners allows it. Might have to take this down if he isnt comfortable with been on the net.
But my style isnt strict wing chun, Its my first love of martial arts but I can see why bruce lee made jkd. Me personally, I dont like been restricted to having to do this or that, I just like to flow and react and wait for an opening. But my bridging obviously needs a lot of work. This video i tried to be as strict wc as I could. So please understand my personal expression of wing chun techniques may be different but it works for me, though I still apreciate and want feedback/advice. I wish more people would make videos and discuss, instead of hypothetical situations.

 

[Jake104]

I think its good for everyone to post some vids of training, Keeps it alive and real. Bjj guys are constantly sparring and evolving but then all the wing chun stuff is videos of Sifus wasting there students in chi sao or in fighting " scenarios" . Its quite nerve racking at first to spar, but if you leave your ego behind and just focus on improving then its all gravy.

That ain't going to happen. Mainly cause Plus size Sifu's don't spar. I was out of breath within a minute or so. I'm in fair shape. The other reason is most have nothing to prove and don't want to bare the scrutiny. Or like me I don't want to piss anybody off or make anyone look bad. I was hesitant to post a vid for that reason. The guy in the vid is my friend. So I didn't want to disrespect. But since I'm in his highlight reel. I figured what the heck. That's why I posted his video. It's so easy to make yourself look better in videos by posting one side of the story. There are times he worked me. I learned from those times. I watched the videos and learned from my mistakes

 

[drop bear]

Even top professional do that 'mistake', but it was my first though.

Your partner, with more a few training months, will take advantage of your desorientation and slowness (due to long movements).
And you cannot counter effectively. Your range is already put in the defence.
But it is just my opinion based on my experience. After that, everything is possible....

I would spar slower, specially for relax, timing and observation training. And put more footwork.

I think it is great to film ourselves. I have no idea about my weaknesses or what I look like till see myself in movie. And I didn't do it enough...

Yeah I reach when I punch which opens me up. Where I should move and punch more cleanly. It is one of the Things I am working on.

Of course I cover more than I parry so I don't fall into the trap of chasing hands as much.

Op should put some gloves on so the whole thing is a bit less flinchy. Then he can eat punches while looking for counters. Which is how you learn to counter punch unfortunately.

 

[Jake104]

Im planning on taking some more over time, Aslong as my sparring partners allows it. Might have to take this down if he isnt comfortable with been on the net.
But my style isnt strict wing chun, Its my first love of martial arts but I can see why bruce lee made jkd. Me personally, I dont like been restricted to having to do this or that, I just like to flow and react and wait for an opening. But my bridging obviously needs a lot of work. This video i tried to be as strict wc as I could. So please understand my personal expression of wing chun techniques may be different but it works for me, though I still apreciate and want feedback/advice. I wish more people would make videos and discuss, instead of hypothetical situations.

I understand completely. But remember one thing , WC is not a set routine of techniques. It's a principle based art. So as long as the principles are maintained it may look different than someone else's in combat or in sparring. This is where I agree with Alan Orrs approach. Not the Snake oil/ engine stuff. At the end of the day I do WC MMA -My Martial Art. . Brought to me by past and present teachers, and hard work.

 

[dudewingchun]

Yeah I reach when I punch which opens me up. Where I should move and punch more cleanly. It is one of the Things I am working on.

Of course I cover more than I parry so I don't fall into the trap of chasing hands as much.

Op should put some gloves on so the whole thing is a bit less flinchy. Then he can eat punches while looking for counters. Which is how you learn to counter punch unfortunately.

I somehow missed the reply you qouted. Yes I agree we should, I need to buy some new gloves. Currently only have the big blue ones. So need to get some fingerless gloves. We both been punched in the face while sparring like that and it hurts quite a bit. one time when i tried bridging he just side stepped and hooked me in the nose, another time i pak and instantly made the pak a punch as he came in and collided into it. Hopefully can get some good exchanges on some more videos. But yea you cant really tell what you are 100% doing unless you see yourself on video, What it feels to what you see is quite different. Since he is just boxing we havent been doing any kicks.
One thing im trying to figure out is how to do proper full contact sparring without getting repeated brain trauma. So many things to think about and train. Got a lifetime of training to do, lucky im only 21!

 

[dudewingchun]

I understand completely. But remember one thing , WC is not a set routine of techniques. It's a principle based art. So as long as the principles are maintained it may look different than someone else's in combat or in sparring. This is where I agree with Alan Orrs approach. Not the Snake oil/ engine stuff. At the end of the day I do WC MMA -My Martial Art.

I also quite like alan orrs stuff. I better give credit . My main influences as of right now are : my old Sifu who claimed Ip ching but is mostly lo man kam with bits of ip ching and other random lineages that only quite works for the teacher , spent the majority of my training there. Now i just started Chu shong tin with a teacher just in his garage which is actually a nice change of environment and just better wc. I spend alot of sparetime now researching dif lineages. Larry saccoia and alan orr are big influences right now for me.
and thats exactly how I consider my Wc !

 

[Dirty Dog]

One thing im trying to figure out is how to do proper full contact sparring without getting repeated brain trauma. So many things to think about and train. Got a lifetime of training to do, lucky im only 21!

You can't. If you're sparring full contact and striking the head, you will absolutely have some degree of brain trauma. Exactly how much is unpredictable. As is how much brain damage you're willing to accept.
Personally, I don't spar full contact. Heavy, yes, but not full.

 

[drop bear]

I somehow missed the reply you qouted. Yes I agree we should, I need to buy some new gloves. Currently only have the big blue ones. So need to get some fingerless gloves. We both been punched in the face while sparring like that and it hurts quite a bit. one time when i tried bridging he just side stepped and hooked me in the nose, another time i pak and instantly made the pak a punch as he came in and collided into it. Hopefully can get some good exchanges on some more videos. But yea you cant really tell what you are 100% doing unless you see yourself on video, What it feels to what you see is quite different. Since he is just boxing we havent been doing any kicks.
One thing im trying to figure out is how to do proper full contact sparring without getting repeated brain trauma. So many things to think about and train. Got a lifetime of training to do, lucky im only 21!

Don't do it every day and stop when someone gets concussed. Personally I don't think you hit hard enough to worry about it at the moment.

You can chun with boxing gloves. But otherwise mma gloves come in shoot boxing and sparring extra padded versions.

 

[paitingman]

imho you just need to exhibit more pressure.

You will find the holes and the gaps more if you are giving him pressure.

and not just with your hands/body/structure. Giving threatening pressure is also important. Make him feel threatened not only with your physical pressure but your posture and distance/footwork.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Well I am still learning and tbh this video was actually made for a guy in Hong Kong to show his sifu what the type of hook im sparring against.
The bridging stuff I have learnt from my previous sifu doesn't work when I try to apply it, no matter how much I practiced it. I don't know if you actually have successfully bridged the gap in a fight or sparring yourself, but for me its a bit difficult. Big risk of running into a quick tight hook, people don't just let you stick to there arms you know. I am comfortable, well not entirely but that is the point of sparring... and I am just being smart because I know I don't have the skill to bridge without getting smacked in the face so I wait until the right time when I notice an opening. This is just 1 min of our usual 10 - 30 min session. hopefully i can take some more soon. But thanks for your input. I was looking for a bit more technical advice. I didn't put it up to show off, I wanted advice.

If i miss i get hooked in the face which has happened multiple times, when bridging. Seriously it is a lot harder then you realise. I learnt how to crash in with jum, pak etc but it doesnt work when they are skilled, Some people I can just straight crash in and sensory overwhelm them, boxer tends to use his footwork to get out of it, easy to do a back step with a slight turn with a nasty tight hook which imo is the highest risk of getting hit when bridging. This video is quite short but I usually wait until I see an opening and quickly bridge. I never had a proper opening where I wouldnt get hit.

Unfortunately, there is no way to get good at aggressively closing the gap without lots of experience in just going for it and getting hit along the way. (Eventually you learn to get hit less and less.) It helps if you have some padding and a training partner who is skilled enough to expose your weaknesses, but controlled enough to not take your head off.

Some more things that might help:

Right now, both of you are mostly punching from out of range. (Possibly out of fear of being hit or hitting your partner.) This means that when you try to close the gap, you start from out of reach and then have to pass through the boxers entire ideal punching range to get to your range. This gives him lots of time to land his own shots and/or sidestep. If you encourage your sparring partner to throw his punches so that they actually would hit you instead of coming up 12-16 inches short, then you'll find it a lot easier to penetrate through to your ideal close range.

If you do decide you want to charge from out of range, then you have to be really fast and fully committed. The moment you hesitate or slow down, your opponent is going to back off or angle out and counter-attack.

Either way, do not start reaching with your hands prematurely. Let your feet carry you right up into your opponent's face. (And then keep pressing forward, because he will be trying to create space.) Once you're crowding him, then let your hands fly.

Caveat - I'm not a WC practitioner, my background is more BJJ and Muay Thai. However I've done plenty of sparring where I focus on closing the gap against boxers/kickboxers in order to work my clinch and/or close range striking. (I've also had a little bit of exposure to WC and will sometimes sneak in the bits I know into sparring when it seems appropriate.)

 

[dudewingchun]

Cheers everyone for the advice. I had to take the vid down because my mate got mad at me.

 

[LFJ]

He is punching, I think you guys think there is no power at all. He is trying to hit me and there is power.

I caught a glimpse of the video before it was taken down, but no, he wasn't trying to hit you. He had power in his punches, but they were all thrown out of range at your hands. You could have just stood there doing nothing, and nothing would have happened. He would just be punching the air about a foot or two in front of you.

My observation of your part would be that you were too stationary at a range where a boxer can throw power shots. That's exactly where you don't want to be against a boxer. Compared to the boxer, you had no footwork and were looking for the right timing to enter straight up the middle. Again, bad strategy against a boxer, as you noticed from experience it's easy for them to circle out and hook you, or just eat you alive as you're standing in the pocket.

So, in my opinion, you need some footwork and to try to find better angles of attack to cut him off and take up space. Otherwise, no matter when you try to enter, you're still standing right in front of the boxer who has both hands ready to unload, while you're also not very mobile. Then it'll just be pure luck if you don't get knocked out.

 

[Jake104]

Cheers everyone for the advice. I had to take the vid down because my mate got mad at me.

At least you're open to constructive criticism. You didn't get defensive like some people do when they post videos. That says a lot. Just keep training and don't give up.

If you're trying to make Wing Chun work, I'd suggest timing, ranges and entry drilling then eventually working up to sparring. Or you could just go at it with heavy gloves and you'll learn timing and range. Problem with that is you may end up abandoning key WC principles for the sake of those things. That's the reasoning IMO why in WC generally sparring comes later if at all. Although, learning to take a hit is pretty important. Good luck!

 

[Jake104]

You can chun with boxing gloves. But otherwise mma gloves come in shoot boxing and sparring extra padded versions

I have found boxing gloves work very well. I actually prefer over standard MMA gloves with full head gear. They allow you to get used to being hit without clumsy headgear that I always felt obstructed my vision.. Plus from a WC point of view, it forces me to not rely on grabbing or fancy hand techniques. I can still under-over hook.

 

[marques]

Plus from a WC point of view, it forces me to not rely on grabbing or fancy hand techniques.

To grab and joint locks are not completely fancy. They just require more technique (than striking) in the right opportunity. Even to push is easier with small gloves (that I prefer, as you can see. )

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Big risk of running into a quick tight hook...

You can try to restrict your opponent's punching ability by not giving him the space that he needs. If you can move your hands as close to your opponent's hands as possible, you can restrict his arms mobility. Grabbing on his wrists if you can. The moment that you release your grip is the moment that you attack.