this is a sad state of affairs

[mastercole]

What are you chaps arguing about? Please don't tell me it's such ephemerals as unproven lineage? It's TKD for crying out loud; the whole art is based on a 'false' lineage i.e. it's karate in Korean clothes.

Speaking entirely as an outsider with no experience at all in the art, arguing lineage in TKD is as purposeful as arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic as it sinks .

Now I have successfully offended every TKD practitioner here {:angel:} and hopefully garnered some attention, can I just suggest that this line of argument has reached the end of it's use? Things can only get more unpleasant if they continue in this vein.

Was this advise from a Jedi Knight? Awesome, I really like the costume.

"Speaking entirely as an outsider with no experience at all in the art", no really, feel free to tell us more about Taekwondo, considering you state you have no experience. If you have any Obi Wan Kenobi questions, feel free to ask us as well. I mean I often tell my doctor all about the latest medical break through and especially the background history behind he, he seems fascinated, I think?

 

[Sukerkin]

To misquote Aragorn from Lord of the Rings, that was not so courteous. There is nothing to be gained by slamming two anvils together, good people. If you cannot agree to see each others point of view, then just let each other be.

 

[mastercole]

To misquote Aragorn from Lord of the Rings, that was not so courteous. There is nothing to be gained by slamming two anvils together, good people. If you cannot agree to see each others point of view, then just let each other be.

The kettle calls the pot black

 

[TKDinAK]

Crazy reading the tit-for-tat in this thread... especially when another topic/thread was recently posted concerning conducting ourselves here as our tenets suggest we do.

That said... I belong to a couple of NFL forums... this stuff is calm and controlled in comparison.

 

[mastercole]

Crazy reading the tit-for-tat in this thread... especially when another topic/thread was recently posted concerning conducting ourselves here as our tenets suggest we do.

That said... I belong to a couple of NFL forums... this stuff is calm and controlled in comparison.

Another daddy jumps in to the fray. Maybe we need some holy men on this thread to point out a lack of morals as well. Get real.

 

[Sukerkin]

That was a crossing of responses I am afraid, mastercole. I was referring to your jibe at your disputant in post#290.

What I was attempting, using outrageous hyperbole to give perspective, is to nudge this thread to a close that does not involve further unpleasantness, that is all. There is nothing to be gained from furthering the conflict of personalities that has been evident, so please allow things to die a natural death.

The next personal shot and implied threat gets kicked upstairs.

Mark A. Beardmore

MT Mentor

 

[Steve]

I'm not a holy man, but I did stay at a holiday inn. God says, "be nice."


Sent using Tapatalk. Please ignore typos.

 

[TKDinAK]

Daddy? Sorry, don't follow.

And I was simply pointing out an interesting comparison between two current threads... not suggesting something was right or wrong.

 

[Twin Fist]

yeah, thats CLASS right there.....

Have a nice night Vinegar

I think we already know that, it's something that would take balls

 

[mastercole]

That was a crossing of responses I am afraid, mastercole. I was referring to your jibe at your disputant in post#290.

What I was attempting, using outrageous hyperbole to give perspective, is to nudge this thread to a close that does not involve further unpleasantness, that is all. There is nothing to be gained from furthering the conflict of personalities that has been evident, so please allow things to die a natural death.

The next personal shot and implied threat gets kicked upstairs.

Mark A. Beardmore

MT Mentor

Then may I kindly suggest that the next time you must make such a suggestion, to a group of Taekwondo practitioners that you don't start it out with statements such as "It's TKD for crying out loud; the whole art is based on a 'false' lineage i.e. it's karate in Korean clothes."

Due to your statement "It's TKD for crying out loud; the whole art is based on a 'false' lineage i.e. it's karate in Korean clothes. ", I had mistaken you for a troll, not a kind adviser.

Warmest Personal Regards

Al Cole

 

[Twin Fist]

Then may I kindly suggest that the next time you must make such a suggestion, to a group of Taekwondo practitioners that you don't start it out with statements such as "It's TKD for crying out loud; the whole art is based on a 'false' lineage i.e. it's karate in Korean clothes."

Due to your statement "It's TKD for crying out loud; the whole art is based on a 'false' lineage i.e. it's karate in Korean clothes. ", I had mistaken you for a troll, not a kind adviser.

Warmest Personal Regards

Al Cole

its true, the "official" history from the KKW is a pack of lies

and we proved it

 

[Sukerkin]

Humour is subjective, I do agree and there is a sad but inevitable tendency on the Net to not read all of a post and so the actual intent is lost.

Just have a care, correspondents, and don't get too carried away with your emotions. The Study and it's sub-fora here allows for freer argumentation. Elsewhere, abide by the rules you signed up to when it comes to courtesy and reasonable behaviour.

 

[mastercole]

its true, the "official" history from the KKW is a pack of lies

and we proved it

You need to study more, John. Example Sejong did not invent Hangul, scholars did, and they invented 28 characters, not 24. Might have to go reprint the student handbook.

 

[mastercole]

Humour is subjective, I do agree and there is a sad but inevitable tendency on the Net to not read all of a post and so the actual intent is lost.

Just have a care, correspondents, and don't get too carried away with your emotions. The Study and it's sub-fora here allows for freer argumentation. Elsewhere, abide by the rules you signed up to when it comes to courtesy and reasonable behaviour.

Good advise, point taken.

 

[Earl Weiss]

You need to study more, John. Example Sejong did not invent Hangul, scholars did, and they invented 28 characters, not 24. Might have to go reprint the student handbook.

OK . Coilor me clueless and waiting for enlightenment. Why is this "Se Jong is named after the greatest Korean King, Se Jong, who invented the Korean alphabet in 1443, and was also a noted meteorologist. The digram represents the king, while the 24 movements refer to the 24 letters of the Korean alphabet." (From Han Min Kyo's website) such a prevelant statement? Did he have any involvement with regard to the Korean "Alphabet" ? I know that many of the "Histories" attributed to patterns are somewhat loose in their accuracy.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Here Wiki says he introduced Hangul and it was 28 letters>>>

See also: Hunmin Jeongeum and Hangul
King Sejong the Great profoundly impacted Korean history with his introduction of hangul, the native phonetic alphabet system for the Korean language.[SUP][14][/SUP]
Before the creation of Hangul, only members of the highest class were literate (hanja was typically used to write Korean by using adapted Chinese characters, while Hanmun was sometimes used to write court documents in classical Chinese). One would have to learn the quite complex hanja characters in order to read and write Korean. Further, despite modifications to the Chinese characters, hanja could prove cumbersome when transcribing the Korean language, due to considerable differences in grammar and sentence order.[SUP][15][/SUP]
King Sejong presided over the introduction of the 28-letter Korean alphabet, with the explicit goal being that Koreans from all classes would read and write. He also attempted to establish a cultural identity for his people through its unique script. While creating the alphabet, King Sejong encountered opposition of courtiers. First published in 1446, anyone could learn Hangul in a matter of days. Persons previously unfamiliar with Hangul can typically pronounce Korean script accurately after only a few hours study.
Each hangul letter is based on a simplified diagram of the patterns made by the mouth, tongue and teeth when making the sound related to the character. Morphemes are built by writing the characters in syllabic blocks. The blocks of letters are then strung together linearly.<<<

And here >>>

Korean alphabet, is the native alphabet of the Korean language. It is a separate script from Hanja, the logographic Chinese characters which are also sometimes used to write Korean. It was created in the mid-15th century, and is now the official script of both North Korea and South Korea and is co-official in the Yanbian Korean Autonomous Prefecture of Jilin Province, People's Republic of China.
Hangul is a true alphabet of 24 consonant and vowel letters<<<

24.... I am so confused.

 

[puunui]

What I was attempting, using outrageous hyperbole to give perspective, is to nudge this thread to a close that does not involve further unpleasantness, that is all. There is nothing to be gained from furthering the conflict of personalities that has been evident, so please allow things to die a natural death.

It was over until you interjected your "false lineage" post at #279. Please check the post right before that one, #278. TF says "Good bye", which means it was over.

 

[mastercole]

OK . Coilor me clueless and waiting for enlightenment. Why is this "Se Jong is named after the greatest Korean King, Se Jong, who invented the Korean alphabet in 1443, and was also a noted meteorologist. The digram represents the king, while the 24 movements refer to the 24 letters of the Korean alphabet." (From Han Min Kyo's website) such a prevelant statement? Did he have any involvement with regard to the Korean "Alphabet" ? I know that many of the "Histories" attributed to patterns are somewhat loose in their accuracy.

This is what I learned in Korea. King Sejong ordered that a group of scholars to create a reading and writing system that the common man could use. This group of scholars was titled the "jiphyeonjun." They came up with 28 letters.

 

[Kinghercules]

I wouldnt say "ripped off". If thats the case then karate is ripped off Kung-fu.
You had some Koreans that trained in Japan and went back to teach what they learned.
The same with the Japanese. Some trained in China and went back to teach what they learned.
I dont see what the problem is.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I wouldnt say "ripped off". If thats the case then karate is ripped off Kung-fu.
You had some Koreans that trained in Japan and went back to teach what they learned.
The same with the Japanese. Some trained in China and went back to teach what they learned.
I dont see what the problem is.

There really isn't one, though there are those who insist that there is. The lineage arguments are mostly academic. It is the disagreement about where KKW/WTF taekwondo has gone since its creation that is at the core of this thread. That and some perceived effect that it supposedly has on those outside of the KKW/WTF.