There are black-eyed virgins ready for you...

[Ken Morgan]

These are generally the uneducated or under educated, unemployed, menial job young adult males who become the suicide bombers. If you have a future, a job, a wife, kids, why would you blow yourself up??

These countries need good jobs, that can support families, (Hell so do we all!!), that will knock the fanatics down a chunk, throw in a little more representative democracy, and the nut jobs will diminish in importance. Revolutions always start in the middle class, people too smart/educated to be feed a line of Bull ****, have some money and some free time, but no real power, and they want power over themselves.

The riots in Iran a few months ago? They were all urban residents, the strength of the mullahs is in the countryside where they are more likely to find the under educate dissatisfied youth, to whom they tell them, “ the reason our country is a **** hole is because of XYZ country” If you blow yourself up to kill some of them you will be a hero because you are creating a better society for your families and friends.

 

[Carol]

Agreed, especially with the educational aspect. The children at the terrorist madrassas aren't there because their parents don't love them. They are there because they are the children of desperately poor parents. The madrassas offer an education for a child that would normally not get one, and three square meals a day for a family that is often malnourished.

Not all madrassas breed terrorists either, most are simply a sort of boarding school.

 

[Sukerkin]

As to Iran, you would be surprised at just how unrepresentative of the people their present government is and how unpopular it is with their religious mainstream too! It has been a revolution that has become that which it rebelled against.

There was an excellent three part documentary on Radio 4 (BBC) that I listened to recently and it quite changed my views on Iran - it also changed my views on America's approach to Iran's drive for nuclear power too. Their current leader is a screaming barmpot nutcase. Some of the things he has said to the faces of various diplomats and leaders of countries ... no wonder noone wants them having even the sniff of the capability of making nuclear weapons!

 

[FierySquidFace]

They have been doing that for decades, right back to pre 2nd World War when they were also Nazis. Never understood this thing for virgins surely a couple of wicked and dirty women would be more of a reward?

I fully agree. lol

 

[Ken Morgan]

As to Iran, you would be surprised at just how unrepresentative of the people their present government is and how unpopular it is with their religious mainstream too! It has been a revolution that has become that which it rebelled against.

There was an excellent three part documentary on Radio 4 (BBC) that I listened to recently and it quite changed my views on Iran - it also changed my views on America's approach to Iran's drive for nuclear power too. Their current leader is a screaming barmpot nutcase. Some of the things he has said to the faces of various diplomats and leaders of countries ... no wonder noone wants them having even the sniff of the capability of making nuclear weapons!

Iran is one of those countries that actually need’s nuclear power to generate electricity. What is it, 90% of all electricity generated there is from burning petroleum? Hell if they had nuclear generation, millions more barrels of oil would end up on the international markets a day.
If he shut the hell up, and talked like a reasonable person every country in the west that makes nuclear reactors would be lining up willing to sell them as many as they want! When you go off and tell Israel that it should be eliminated…well that doesn’t win you friends!

 

[Deaf Smith]

Iran is one of those countries that actually need’s nuclear power to generate electricity. What is it, 90% of all electricity generated there is from burning petroleum? Hell if they had nuclear generation, millions more barrels of oil would end up on the international markets a day.
If he shut the hell up, and talked like a reasonable person every country in the west that makes nuclear reactors would be lining up willing to sell them as many as they want! When you go off and tell Israel that it should be eliminated…well that doesn’t win you friends!

And an off question...

If they are allowed to eliminate Israel.. well who then will they blame for all their troubles? After all, kill the scapegoat and you will need another. Iran and all the Arab counties have had many many probems long before Israel came into being. In fact, they've always had much unrest.

So who will be the next scapegoat to blame?

Deaf

 

[grydth]

And an off question...

If they are allowed to eliminate Israel.. well who then will they blame for all their troubles? After all, kill the scapegoat and you will need another. Iran and all the Arab counties have had many many probems long before Israel came into being. In fact, they've always had much unrest.

So who will be the next scapegoat to blame?

Deaf

Just watch the Iranian Satanocracy TV Channel....

"DEATH TO AMERICA! DEATH TO THE USA!"

 

[Ken Morgan]

And an off question...

If they are allowed to eliminate Israel.. well who then will they blame for all their troubles? After all, kill the scapegoat and you will need another. Iran and all the Arab counties have had many many probems long before Israel came into being. In fact, they've always had much unrest.

So who will be the next scapegoat to blame?

Deaf

Good question. They'd probably go after multinationals, everybody hates the multinationals, right?

The Iranians don't consider themselves Arabs, they're Persians.

Give it some more time and the new revolution will succeed, and shortly after that a normal country again. Lets hope they don't decide to go after Israel before that happens.

 

[Big Don]

The Iranians don't consider themselves Arabs, they're Persians.

Tiny correction.
Iranians ARE NOT Arabs.

 

[xJOHNx]

I really think the muslims are so sexually depraved and had so many years of killing others (and each other) that what they have now is 'normal' for them. Their society cannot even remember a time when everyone, reguardless of religion or race, lived side by side and didn't bother each other.

Revolution and assination is accepted. Car bombing innocents is now part of their idea of war. Suicide is good, living is bad. So they promote the very twisted sex they desire as 'reward' for they have nothing else to give or promise to their people.

The Jews are their convient scape goat. Just as they were for other nations. If it wasn't the Jews, they would have to invent something else, anything else, to take the blame for their own transgressions.

Nowdays, as T.E. Lawrence pointed out, rebellion and violence, once ingrained as part of society, will be very hard to eradicate.

And in the Middle East, it will take many centuries, just as it did in the west, if they don't atom bomb themselves first.

Deaf

I wasn't going to react in this topic, well basicly because I know how much bs Muslims have to put up with when talking about these things on international boards.

But as I kept reading this thread, I've noticed that some use irony while others are just bluntly put: wrong.

I've taken your post Deaf Smith, because in my eyes it contains the most generalizations, logical fallacy's and even completely false facts. So if you take this personal, I can understand.

First of all, most Muslims can remember a time where there was peace in the great Ottoman Empire, where freedom of religion was accepted (talking about the 1400's here, when Christianity was still killing witches and organizing crusades). When I look at my own backyard (being Europe) I see alot of old groupings still organising terrorist attacks. We have the IRA, Eta and some more, yet no one is even remotly scared of them to this level. There isn't a society in the world in which all of it's members (being legal or illegal) live in peace next to each other. Let alone not bother eachother. It's safe to say that most people do not want to live under a war-burden. Could explain the massive emagrations.

Second, Revolution and assassination are not the accepted terms. Because every now and then carbombs explode or terrorists blow themselves up, everybody is down with it? That a logical fallacy. Familymembers are not so happy when a relative dies in a suicide attack, unless they all stage it in front of the camera. I'm maybe being harsh here, but the truth is, terrorists are only a small margin! Yet everybody seems to think that natives don't have a problem with it.
Revolution is something that happens as a result of an immense amount of factors. Just like the American, Belgian or more recent Velvet revolution. When the people are not agreeing with the governement anymore, revolution can be an outcome. Some choose violence to reach that goal, others use peace. It's not because we live in countries with relatively freedom and civil rights (although I contest both) that everyone live in such a country.

Third, if you don't really like what you've just read. This is part of a discussion, not a rally for hate.
I'm not going to make myself popular by saying this but, Israel is not the convenient scapegoat. Ever since the creation of Israel in 1947 people of Palestina have been repressed. Because of that alot of tension has risen in the Middle-East and ALL parties are not actually keen about being part of the solution. ALL provoke and both flex their muscles by showing off it's military and nuclear skills. Not every Muslim hates the Jews (it would made more sense if I said the people of Israel). This isn't something that can be generalised to such a degree. It's a very sensitive discussion in which objective history is the best tool.

That's about all I had to say
except, don't use the term Muslims when reffering to a society. As not all Muslims are living in Iran. Islam goes much further than just being potential terrorists. I wish people could see that.

The quote of TE Lawrence could be applied to our "high" society as well.
And yes it will take many centuries, doesn't mean we have to barge in to show 'em how it is done. That would most likely result in the opposite effect.

Peace,
John

 

[Archangel M]

Yet none of the Arab states seem willing to DO anything for Palestine. Wont accept them as refugees, wont allow them citizenship, wont allow them to own property...all things nations like Egypt, Syria, et al want to do is see Israel "on the hook" and they are willing to throw the Palestinians to the wolves to see that done.

 

[xJOHNx]

It's also a matters of politics and the biggest weapon of all, fear.

Yes, no-country wants to do anything about the Palestinian people. As I said, no one wants to be a part of the solution.

After the recent elections alot of the countries you've mentioned became alot more afraid of the IDF (with the sudden rise of Ultra nationals). They have seen what the capability is, but also what the Capability was in the older days. 6 day war and so on. Bassically the Pan-Arabian peninsula has a powerfull state which looks none like the other ones in the region and is capable of doing some hard work (i.e. attack). Fear.
Israel flexes its muscles as well as any country and also have spokesmen that say thing the same way the President of Iran says them.

It is all politricks.

I could go on and on, but my food is ready. Later this evening maybe some more discussion.

What I forgot to add in my previous post, the president of Iran is a clear nutter.