The 'Vampire Straw' so-called dual-purpose self-defense tool

[Steve]

Intent has a lot to do with how illegal something is.

If I trip and fall and kill someone that is an accident.

If I plan to kill someone. That is murder.

killing someone is always illegal. Isn’t it? I mean, you can argue that you shouldn’t be punished for it… or at least shouldn’t have the book thrown at you, but you’re basically saying, “I did this illegal thing, but you shouldn’t punish me because [self defense or whatever else].”

 

[Dirty Dog]

are you saying cops don’t act based on logic or reason? You may have a point, though some on this forum probably disagree with you.

I'm saying many of the rules and laws (they're not the same thing, and cops don't enforce rules, typically) are not based on logic or reason.

An example. Some years back, Colorado passed a magazine size limit law. The law banned magazines with more than a 15 round capacity, but allowed shooters to keep any pre-ban magazines. Her reasoning? That we'd soon shoot the ammo in those magazines. Because apparently, in her world, you can't simply reload a magazine. And of course, the law is unenforceable, because magazines are not date stamped. No logic. No reason. Just massive ignorance.

 

[Dirty Dog]

killing someone is always illegal. Isn’t it?

No. It's not.
Excusable and justifiable homicides are not crimes.

Excusable and Justifiable Homicide – The Law in California

https://youtu.be/D-kb8JC7JzA Penal Code sections 195, 196, and 197 PC set forth California state laws on excusable and justifiable homicide. “Homicide” is the act of killing another human being and typically leads to criminal charges. These laws, however, hold that homicide is not a crime in...

www.shouselaw.com

 

[drop bear]

killing someone is always illegal. Isn’t it? I mean, you can argue that you shouldn’t be punished for it… or at least shouldn’t have the book thrown at you, but you’re basically saying, “I did this illegal thing, but you shouldn’t punish me because [self defense or whatever else].”

Yeah. Sort of.

But more illegal if you wanted to do it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

There is a good reason that people train MA. That is people don't want to be killed.

If one has 2 options,

1. kill, or
2. to be killed,

I assume everybody will select 1 instead of 2.

When your opponent tries to stab a hole through your chest with his spear, to use Gua Dao to cut his head off may be your only option.

One may say that you can always run away. But how do you know that your opponent won't throw his spear at your back when you are running?

 

[jks9199]

are you saying cops don’t act based on logic or reason? You may have a point, though some on this forum probably disagree with you.

Not quite sure how we moved into whether cops use logic or reason, or who might or might not agree with an opinion on that... Maybe a return to the original discussion about these "vampire straws" is in order?

 

[Steve]

Not quite sure how we moved into whether cops use logic or reason, or who might or might not agree with an opinion on that... Maybe a return to the original discussion about these "vampire straws" is in order?

The original post was about tricking cops, and Dirty Dog took it to a weird place. You may want to talk to him about it.

 

[Steve]

Yeah. Sort of.

But more illegal if you wanted to do it.

Fair enough. I think that's what bill mattocks was getting at with regards to stabbing someone with a knitting needle. What I was trying to get at is that most of these determinations are after something happens. "Why did you do that?" vs "What are you about to do that?" i.e., retrospective determinations vs prospective determinations. So, in the case of the TSA, they will let someone on with a knitting needle, but not someone on with a pointy straw, even though they are both about the same amount pointy. But pointy needles are okay, as are sharp scissors (4" or less).

 

[Steve]

No. It's not.
Excusable and justifiable homicides are not crimes.

Excusable and Justifiable Homicide – The Law in California

https://youtu.be/D-kb8JC7JzA Penal Code sections 195, 196, and 197 PC set forth California state laws on excusable and justifiable homicide. “Homicide” is the act of killing another human being and typically leads to criminal charges. These laws, however, hold that homicide is not a crime in...

www.shouselaw.com

IF you read that page that you googled, it pretty much says the same thing I said. Homicide is illegal, but there are legal defenses to the charge.

 

[drop bear]

Fair enough. I think that's what bill mattocks was getting at with regards to stabbing someone with a knitting needle. What I was trying to get at is that most of these determinations are after something happens. "Why did you do that?" vs "What are you about to do that?" i.e., retrospective determinations vs prospective determinations. So, in the case of the TSA, they will let someone on with a knitting needle, but not someone on with a pointy straw, even though they are both about the same amount pointy. But pointy needles are okay, as are sharp scissors (4" or less).

That is a dedicated murder straw. They are not dedicated murder needle's

In Australia that is a much more pronounced difference. If you take a murder straw to a fight. You were intending to use it.

And you don't get the I was minding my own business when. Defence.

 

[Steve]

That is a dedicated murder straw. They are not dedicated murder needle's

In Australia that is a much more pronounced difference. If you take a murder straw to a fight. You were intending to use it.

And you don't get the I was minding my own business when. Defence.

I hear what you’re saying, but I’d never heard of these murder straws before, so to me, it really does look like little more than a pointy straw.

I’ve also never heard of anyone being murdered with one. Sincere question… is this really a thing?

Edit: I did a quick search for any news articles about these vampire straws and the only thing that came up that was at all relevant was the article on the person who got in trouble just for having it in his carryon bag.

 

[O'Malley]

killing someone is always illegal. Isn’t it? I mean, you can argue that you shouldn’t be punished for it… or at least shouldn’t have the book thrown at you, but you’re basically saying, “I did this illegal thing, but you shouldn’t punish me because [self defense or whatever else].”

Lawyer here, can confirm this.

 

[drop bear]

I hear what you’re saying, but I’d never heard of these murder straws before, so to me, it really does look like little more than a pointy straw.

I’ve also never heard of anyone being murdered with one. Sincere question… is this really a thing?

Edit: I did a quick search for any news articles about these vampire straws and the only thing that came up that was at all relevant was the article on the person who got in trouble just for having it in his carryon bag.

"Designed for self defense, the Vampire straw is super tough and long enough to be used like a dagger; it’s chiseled tip is sharp enough to puncture most synthetic materials.
The Vampire straw is also a very effective tire deflator, and can be carried in a cup, in public without attracting attention. From a cup, the Vampire straw is very easy to deploy in reverse grip, and put into action almost instantly.

This is one weapon you will actually use every day.

Each straw is made in the USA.

In 100000 years, when every trace of humanity will have disappeared, the Vampire straw will remain, unaffected by corrosion, as a testament of the ingenuity human beings possessed to invent contraptions to hurt each other."


One way you can tell if something is a weapon is when it blatantly says its a weapon.

 

[Steve]

"Designed for self defense, the Vampire straw is super tough and long enough to be used like a dagger; it’s chiseled tip is sharp enough to puncture most synthetic materials.
The Vampire straw is also a very effective tire deflator, and can be carried in a cup, in public without attracting attention. From a cup, the Vampire straw is very easy to deploy in reverse grip, and put into action almost instantly.

This is one weapon you will actually use every day.

Each straw is made in the USA.

In 100000 years, when every trace of humanity will have disappeared, the Vampire straw will remain, unaffected by corrosion, as a testament of the ingenuity human beings possessed to invent contraptions to hurt each other."


One way you can tell if something is a weapon is when it blatantly says its a weapon.

Yeah, some creative marketing there for sure. Not trying to be pedantic. I just think absent evidence to the contrary, this is just someone making a buck and not a real threat. So, the question is, what makes this inherently a weapon? Is it being used as a weapon to harm others? Is it marketing? Because I could market anything as a weapon.

For example, if I open up an Etsy shop and start selling Tactical Death Nails... which are literally olive drab or matte black knitting needles, would that make them more dangerous? I could write some crazy cool marketing language about all the nefarious deeds that can be done with a knitting... I mean Tactical Death Nail. My opinion is... maybe... based on what people actually start doing.

I've never heard of a vampire straw before this thread, but I've been looking for any evidence that it's been used as a weapon by anyone, anywhere. I'm not saying it hasn't... but I can't find any evidence of it at all. So, all that to say, absent evidence to the contrary, I think this is a red herring to be filed away with fear of sharks and reefer madness. I guess to address the OP's assertion, yeah, you can fool the cops. You can take your Tactical Death Nails on board a plane very easily, by putting them in a bag with some yarn. Easy peasy...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

IF you read that page that you googled, it pretty much says the same thing I said. Homicide is illegal, but there are legal defenses to the charge.

I'm uncertain of the semantics here. Is something being technically illegal the same as a crime, or is a crime an illegal action (meaning there is no defense that renders the action not-illegal)?

What I mean is (and I'm not sure this will be clear even with this restatement), is it only a crime if the person can be convicted, or can it be a crime but they're not convictable?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I hear what you’re saying, but I’d never heard of these murder straws before, so to me, it really does look like little more than a pointy straw.

I’ve also never heard of anyone being murdered with one. Sincere question… is this really a thing?

Edit: I did a quick search for any news articles about these vampire straws and the only thing that came up that was at all relevant was the article on the person who got in trouble just for having it in his carryon bag.

I've never heard of anyone being murdered with a tactical pen (probably has happend, but I'm not aware of it), but I feel certain that the pen's "tacticalness" would change how it's viewed. Same with a metal straw sharp enough to be an obvious weapon - it'd be much harder to claim there's a reasonable purpose for it on your person in most circumstances.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

"Designed for self defense, the Vampire straw is super tough and long enough to be used like a dagger; it’s chiseled tip is sharp enough to puncture most synthetic materials.
The Vampire straw is also a very effective tire deflator, and can be carried in a cup, in public without attracting attention. From a cup, the Vampire straw is very easy to deploy in reverse grip, and put into action almost instantly.

This is one weapon you will actually use every day.

Each straw is made in the USA.

In 100000 years, when every trace of humanity will have disappeared, the Vampire straw will remain, unaffected by corrosion, as a testament of the ingenuity human beings possessed to invent contraptions to hurt each other."


One way you can tell if something is a weapon is when it blatantly says its a weapon.

I dunno. Too vague. I missed their point.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah, some creative marketing there for sure. Not trying to be pedantic. I just think absent evidence to the contrary, this is just someone making a buck and not a real threat. So, the question is, what makes this inherently a weapon? Is it being used as a weapon to harm others? Is it marketing? Because I could market anything as a weapon.

For example, if I open up an Etsy shop and start selling Tactical Death Nails... which are literally olive drab or matte black knitting needles, would that make them more dangerous? I could write some crazy cool marketing language about all the nefarious deeds that can be done with a knitting... I mean Tactical Death Nail. My opinion is... maybe... based on what people actually start doing.

I've never heard of a vampire straw before this thread, but I've been looking for any evidence that it's been used as a weapon by anyone, anywhere. I'm not saying it hasn't... but I can't find any evidence of it at all. So, all that to say, absent evidence to the contrary, I think this is a red herring to be filed away with fear of sharks and reefer madness. I guess to address the OP's assertion, yeah, you can fool the cops. You can take your Tactical Death Nails on board a plane very easily, by putting them in a bag with some yarn. Easy peasy...

This seems like we'd get right into having to define what we mean by "weapon". Of course, anything used as a weapon is inherently a weapon in that context, but I don't think you're talking about having just any weapon potential (which would include so nearly everything as to be useless). So that leaves two broad categories we could carve out: things intended as weapons (whether they are good for it or not - like vampire straws and longswords) and things that are obviously effective as weapons (whether intended as such or not - like baseball bats and guns).

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I'm uncertain of the semantics here. Is something being technically illegal the same as a crime, or is a crime an illegal action (meaning there is no defense that renders the action not-illegal)?

What I mean is (and I'm not sure this will be clear even with this restatement), is it only a crime if the person can be convicted, or can it be a crime but they're not convictable?

Thinking the same thing. I’m no lawyer so…

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I've never heard of anyone being murdered with a tactical pen (probably has happend, but I'm not aware of it), but I feel certain that the pen's "tacticalness" would change how it's viewed. Same with a metal straw sharp enough to be an obvious weapon - it'd be much harder to claim there's a reasonable purpose for it on your person in most circumstances.

For dealing with military grade capri suns and juice boxes.