The Title of Martial Arts Master

[seasoned]

Not really. I have been awarded the title of Master Instructor, and to my way of thinking, that just means I'm an advanced student.

Point well taken. "advanced student" I like this very much. I have met "masters" but only a small few I would consider true advanced practitioners. To me a Master is the person that not only has taken what he has learned to the peak of perfection, but is able to read between the lines of what he has learned and in a meaningful way is able to bring those that are ready, to the next level of understanding.

A few thoughts on this.

In terms of modern (within the past century) martial arts, these are expressed in the tenets of more than one art. But martial arts or no, they are good qualities to have regardless of the field of study. Ever notice how top level athletes who display these qualities are accorded greater respect than similarly skilled athletes who are self important?

I agree with this.

I disagree with this, not because I think that you're wrong, but because I think you're using the term "master" in a way that goes beyond what the term actually defines. There definitely are people who hold the title who really don't understand it and who hold themselves up as being some kind Shaw Brothers kung fu movie master. These people paint themselves into a corner by espousing their skill and knowledge and by asking for unquestioning loyalty and obedience. This is, of course, to mask any shortcomings.

Such a person may actually be a master, but not any master that you or I would want to study under

Well said Daniel, I do feel that a master goes beyond physical ability and is able to teach and past down what they know in such a way that everyone can benefit and grow in understanding that goes beyond simple doing.......

 

[Hyoho]

Having a master trades certificate is a little different. Calling someone master sounds a little subservient. We devote our whole life to one art expecting nothing and getting older only have the reverberations if our mentors. With age it brings humility rather than the 'hey look at me' attitude. Some of the greatest teachers have actually refused rank such as Kendo Judan.

 

[Happy-Papi]

We had a visitor from abroad who handed out his calling card and before his name was his title (master, shihan, sensei,etc...). He noticed that the kids were giggling upon seeing his title "master" and asked the kids why they are giggling. The kids answered "sugoi" (wonderful, superb, wow!). Since the guy didn't speak Japanese, he thought that he is just way too cool and awesome for the giggles but the truth is that all of us were thinking of the same thing (matur-b... HAHAHA!). It is a normal joke here in Japan to get giggles if someone said master because of it's funky counterpart

The older practitioner like myself too were holding out our giggles because of his funky title and it is really awkward to address oneself as master... Then sparring time came and saw him having difficulties with our Jr.BB. My son also joined in and was asked to do his best/anything goes/any art OK... probably since he was not wearing his BB and wore a lower colored belt thought that he was a beginner. Hearing what he said got us (instructors and BBs) looking at each others faces with worry that he is in for a big surprise. The guy is definitely not a grappler and my son will surely use military CQC grappling against him. He got twisted, thrown and plowed, mounted and strangled, HAHAHA!!! He was quite good with punching and kicking but gets overwhelmed when my son grabbed his dogi and just kept on punching and elbowing like mad and instantly went for twisting, takedown and a neck stretcher He probably thought that once he is down that the fight stops (just like in most MA style) but I'm sure that he was not expecting it to end only after a tap. He tried many times to win but he just couldn't. We pulled my son out and exchanged him with another kid because he was gasping for air and was touching his wrist, neck, and was limping, lol! Before the spar, my son asked him if he is ok with CQC and just got a cold shoulder and said that he haven't heard of it but all is ok. His voice sounded arrogant so his bones got stretched "big time" by a kid, lol!

That is one reason why I would never put "master" in my calling card because somewhere some kid can kick my behind without sweating, lol! If I don't put "master" in my title, then probably these kids will show me some mercy, HAHAHA!!!

Since I teach from time to time, my students call me ochan (uncle), otosan (father), and even ojisan (grandpop). My fellow instructors call me otosan (father) even when they are older than me. Titles gives me the goosebumps and I always remind new students to call me whatever they like but never give me funky titles because I'm not really a martial artist. Some still accidentally calls me sensei and I can live with that but one time when I was teaching a group of foreigners, this "master" title came out and I strongly told them that I'm not worthy of the title since I have not mastered anything yet.

One advice for "masters"... if you are planning to visit Japan, please lose the "master thingy" (mastur-b) in your title or prepare yourself for giggles

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Having a master trades certificate is a little different. Calling someone master sounds a little subservient. We devote our whole life to one art expecting nothing and getting older only have the reverberations if our mentors. With age it brings humility rather than the 'hey look at me' attitude. Some of the greatest teachers have actually refused rank such as Kendo Judan.

If you mean tenth dan, I was unaware that kendo had a judan rank. There was a ninth dan, but they no longer issue it.

 

[seasoned]

Having a master trades certificate is a little different. Calling someone master sounds a little subservient. We devote our whole life to one art expecting nothing and getting older only have the reverberations if our mentors. With age it brings humility rather than the 'hey look at me' attitude. Some of the greatest teachers have actually refused rank such as Kendo Judan.

Geat point above. On one of our first trips to Okinawa the higher ranked students in our dojo were invited to go. Toward the end of our visit my Sensei was awarded a promotion which at the time was a high rank. He refused the rank and said that he came with his students to train, not for promotions. He won very high prise from the Okinawan and a bond was formed. Although he excepted the rank it was years before he publicly excepted it back in the states.

 

[Hyoho]

If you mean tenth dan, I was unaware that kendo had a judan rank. There was a ninth dan, but they no longer issue it.

Yes that's is true ZNKR stopped it. The problem with Judan was other Kyudan were the ones that would suggest someone. The last time it ever happened four people were suggested. My teacher's teacher Oasa Yuuji Sensei received it with Mochida Moriji Sensei. But the two who refused seemed to have been held in higher regard in the end.

I did have a video of Oasa Yuuji doing embu at the Tenran Taikai converted from a film. Wish I had it now! The Oasa Dojo has long gone and everyone came to my dojo (Kenseikai Dojo) I taught there for some years. Sadly it was burned down in 2004.

 

[lklawson]

Having a master trades certificate is a little different.

True enough.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk (mobile)

 

[lklawson]

Since I teach from time to time, my students call me ochan (uncle), otosan (father), and even ojisan (grandpop). My fellow instructors call me otosan (father) even when they are older than me. Titles gives me the goosebumps and I always remind new students to call me whatever they like but never give me funky titles because I'm not really a martial artist. Some still accidentally calls me sensei and I can live with that but one time when I was teaching a group of foreigners, this "master" title came out and I strongly told them that I'm not worthy of the title since I have not mastered anything yet.

Stupid mobile app ate my first reply. :-(

I prefer to go by "coach." Much less bagage and fairly accurate to the roll.

In 19th Century boxing it was not unheard or for instructors to have the title "Professor."

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk (mobile)

 

[geezer]

Stupid mobile app ate my first reply. :-(

I prefer to go by "coach." Much less bagage and fairly accurate to the role.


Peace favor your sword,
Kirk (mobile)

I have frequent contact with three master level head-instructors: Master Jeff (Ving Tsun), Master Nik (TKD), and "Maestro" Martin (FMA, Boxing and MMA). All three are pretty humble guys considering their level of skill. In their schools Nik and Jeff are addressed as "Master Nik" and "Master Jeff" respectively, and Martin is addressed as "Coach". IMO the term "coach" is equally respectful and seems very honest and straight-forward.

 

[seasoned]

 

[Happy-Papi]

Stupid mobile app ate my first reply. :-(

I prefer to go by "coach." Much less bagage and fairly accurate to the roll.

In 19th Century boxing it was not unheard or for instructors to have the title "Professor."

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk (mobile)

You nailed it!
Yes I think that my role is in coaching because that is basically what I have been doing. Instructors never asked me to teach from scratch and I often get the task of handling their most advance students and instructors. Not that I'm better or skilled than they are but I guess since they placed me in that position, that I may have some BS skills up my sleeves and the "eye" to bring out and enhance their skills. It is very odd to teach "evil" to add to their present art which is more on self defense and then try to get their students to win competitions "cleanly" (without poking their opponents eyeballs or adding funky mushrooms in their drinks, lol!) based on their art alone and I didn't even studied their art??? I've done this with some Judokas, Karatekas, etc. and had good results. It's like teaching someone "how to cut the electricity, back-stab then vanish" but to fight clean and honorably???

One very odd experience is passing some tricks especially to very advance fighters like my brothers and friends. War for them means everyday work and passing my BS to highly trained and experienced fighters sometimes makes me feel uncomfortable since I spend most of my days now just watching sleazy love-comedy movies, lol! Last year I have given advice on "how to combat shoot" to someone who was awarded several sharp shooter medals and I haven't touched firearms in more than 2 decades... I beat him though, lol! They also noticed that I don't use ear plugs (been deaf for months!) and I seldom open my mouth to relive the pressure when shooting (SOP for shooters) that I often have to hold my nose and blow. The difference is that we shoot inside tunnels, caves, inside vehicles and shoot underwater and oftentimes in the dark and I don't want some nasty critter for dinner. I've also passed them some skills back from my para-SF days but they too are SFs and their training are similar with mine but have some differences since my unit are trained to operate with or without weapons and get the same results. They said that they love my "how to strangle and choke SF style" and would use it for work I still don't have full confidence in teaching my BS since it's obsolete but these guys said that the academy never teaches these and wanted more??? I guess that my coaching is not for everybody but only for guys with loose screws, lol! My role is just like coaching black belts how to win and it is a lot easier to guide them than to guide newbies. This is why I really have high respects to instructors especially since I am not a good teacher. I have a very strong feeling that you are a very good teacher and a coach Kirk.

 

[Hyoho]

Years ago the British Martial Arts Commission started to do Coach Awards. I really have no idea if the still do it. It was left to individual organizations to test them. It worked will because its wrong to assume that just because someone is good at something doesn't necessarily mean he can teach it.

It followed through as well as adult education principals would not allow classes unless you had that award.

I'm sure there are a lot of good guys out there possibly study with this title as their respective organization promotes it. A reality check for those organizations andhaving a rethink about rank titles would possibly promote them as being a bit a more realistic responsible group.

 

[lklawson]

One of the things I like about "coach" as a "title" is that it shifts the idiotic shaw-brothers-esque expectations to something more realistic. The role of a coach is not to be a better fighter than his top student, to be able to be ambushed by his students en masse and whup on on them, or to be elevated to some sort of near-worship position. It's to help his students advance.

This pic of Mike Tyson and Cus D'Amato illustrates what I mean.



Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[arnisador]

Coaching is the right strategy unless you're really dedicated to preserving an art form for prosperity (which is also cool).

 

[pgsmith]

I think it all depends upon the art in question. If you are talking about a traditional Japanese art, then someone introducing themselves as "master" whoever would be displaying either their total lack of understanding of the culture of thier art, or their overriding ego and desire to be seen as better than others. I've only ever had this happen to me once, even though I've met a number of highly ranked and influential Japanese instructors. Humility and passing off praise is part and parcel of the traditional Japanese arts, and those that don't adhere to this unwritten rule are looked upon as lacking something important inside. I was at a Toyama ryu Tai Kai (Japanese sword competition) in Florida in 2001 when I had a gentleman come up to me in the hotel bar and introduce himself to me as "Master Dana Abbott". He then stood there like he was waiting for me to recognize him or something. I said "nice to meet you Master," and went back to sit with my friends. He didn't look very happy that I didn't know about him.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I think it all depends upon the art in question. If you are talking about a traditional Japanese art, then someone introducing themselves as "master" whoever would be displaying either their total lack of understanding of the culture of thier art, or their overriding ego and desire to be seen as better than others. I've only ever had this happen to me once, even though I've met a number of highly ranked and influential Japanese instructors. Humility and passing off praise is part and parcel of the traditional Japanese arts, and those that don't adhere to this unwritten rule are looked upon as lacking something important inside. I was at a Toyama ryu Tai Kai (Japanese sword competition) in Florida in 2001 when I had a gentleman come up to me in the hotel bar and introduce himself to me as "Master Dana Abbott". He then stood there like he was waiting for me to recognize him or something. I said "nice to meet you Master," and went back to sit with my friends. He didn't look very happy that I didn't know about him.

You mean this Dana Abbot?

http://www.samuraisports.com/about/danaabbott.html

 

[pgsmith]

Yep, that was the guy. I still get occasional emails from him about some sort of video training thing he's promoting.

 

[K-man]

Yep, that was the guy. I still get occasional emails from him about some sort of video training thing he's promoting.

Actually, that reminds me of an English guy, I won't put a name to him, who started out years ago with great on-line information and newsletter. He has got so caught up in his own hype and marketing that all his emails are doing is clogging up the in-box, hence my 'unsubscribe'. But what is relevant here is his adoption of the 'Master' title and his calling all his mates, who help him with his videos, 'Master'. Makes you want to throw up actually!
:asian:

 

[Hyoho]

Yep, that was the guy. I still get occasional emails from him about some sort of video training thing he's promoting.

If I remember he didn't fair too well on E-Budo.

 

[Balrog]

Point well taken. "advanced student" I like this very much. I have met "masters" but only a small few I would consider true advanced practitioners. To me a Master is the person that not only has taken what he has learned to the peak of perfection, but is able to read between the lines of what he has learned and in a meaningful way is able to bring those that are ready, to the next level of understanding.

Agreed. The title is "Master Instructor". Yes, I've honed my teaching skills and am good at them. But as I am teaching, I am still learning. There is not a day that goes by that I don't do our White Belt form and learn something more from it, such as balance, timing, focus, etc. The day I stop doing that is the day that I stop growing as a martial artist.

Grand Master Soon Ho Lee, who recently retired from the ATA, had a saying, short and simple: "There's always more to learn".