The Term 'Aikidoka'.

[arnisador]

There is a discussion here on Wikipedia (continued here) to the following effect: In Japan, an aikido practitioner is not called an aikidoka. (See also here.) This is news to me! Apparently, part of the difficulty is that -ka may denote a serious or experienced practitioner (of anything), so a beginning or undedicated student might not qualify.

Can anyone comment knowledgeably on this? I know the term is widely used by English-speaking aikidoists.

 

[Paul B]

Well..I would say this..you're just a dumb Deshi until your Sensei say's that you're an Aikidoka...until then,(and that day may never come) work on your Ukemi.

I'm just feeling extra helpful today,Arny. :boing2:

Honestly,though.. My Aikido Sensei always referred to Aikido practitioners as Aikidoka,or she just plainly stated that "they have good Aikido"(or the reverse).

I really don't see the rub,either way.

 

[theletch1]

Well..I would say this..you're just a dumb Deshi until your Sensei say's that you're an Aikidoka...until then,(and that day may never come) work on your Ukemi.

I'm just feeling extra helpful today,Arny. :boing2:

Honestly,though.. My Aikido Sensei always referred to Aikido practitioners as Aikidoka,or she just plainly stated that "they have good Aikido"(or the reverse).

I really don't see the rub,either way.

Too true. Sorry, Arny. I'm not able to relply with any authority on this either. I've always heard aikido-ka used to refer to anyone that studies aikido in an official capacity. Meaning that the karate-ka who dabbles in it as a hobby to figure out how the other half lives would still be a karate-ka and not an aikido-ka.

 

[charyuop]

You know that KA means also mosquito? So is Aikidoka "the mosquito which follows the path of the harmonius spirit"?

Joking apart, I have always considered the suffix KA as the English suffix ER (writer, supplier and so on). But Japanese is rather complicated as a language, not much for the grammar rules, but mostly for the wide open meaning of each single word.

 

[kaizasosei]

that would be one die hard mosquito!!

 

[kaizasosei]

aikidoka is think is ok to say for a practitioner but i can understand the issue.. because some people might think you one means one comes from a family that has deep ties with aikido or practicing for generations.
i can especially see this with the term budoka...although kindof a stretch could refer to a house where budo is practiced(with some aikimosquitos ) but the real meaning is 'budo house/family'.
but i mean if we really want to get particular...what's the big difference. unless someone is trying to protect their generations of tradition, why can't any practitioner of aikido be aikidoka. i mean if anyone practices well enough then they may integrate aikido into their life to such a degree that they even pass it onto their family or children, therefore they are also aikidoka or at least aikidoka in the making but their children are born into an aikidoka. i don't see why not.

so if someone is in the process of achieving something one should support them as best one can. i cant really understand how this could be a big problem for anyone, i would hope it be a simple linguistic misunderstanding.

j

 

[arnisador]

So perhaps there's a term for an aikidoist who isn't such an experienced/dedicated practitioner?

 

[charyuop]

Someone who draws comics is called Mangaka. Yes, KA means house, but I don't think in this case it means that it has to do with your family. I see it more as in "someone who belongs to the Manga (comics) family".
I might be wrong, but I have never heard the KA suffix related to the length of time you have been doing something or the quality of your doing it.
But my knowledge of Japanese is merely as self taught and ended many many years ago so now I recall basically nothing and most of what I used to know might have been wrong.

 

[P A Goldsbury]

I have in front of me the Japanese kanji dictionary I normally use. There are 105 different characters read as KA and the relevant character 家 has about 300 compounds where it appears last in a word. The examples are so wide-ranging that it is impossible to make any general judgment about the precise meaning of KA.

For example, gakka 画家 artist, sakka 作家 novelist, jigyouka 事業家 businessman, might fit the idea of someone who is a professional or expert, but koushokuka 好色家 lecher, meibouka 名望家 highly esteemed person, meishinka 迷信家 superstitious person, aikouka 愛好家 enthusiast or fan (of anything), would not.

I have never come across aikdouka in nearly 30 years of residence here and the word does not appear in the Koujien, which is a fairly authoritative monolingual dictionary. Japanese have other ways of describing someone who practises aikido expertly or professionally (shihan being one preferred term).

 

[theletch1]

I have in front of me the Japanese kanji dictionary I normally use. There are 105 different characters read as KA and the relevant character 家 has about 300 compounds where it appears last in a word. The examples are so wide-ranging that it is impossible to make any general judgment about the precise meaning of KA.

For example, gakka 画家 artist, sakka 作家 novelist, jigyouka 事業家 businessman, might fit the idea of someone who is a professional or expert, but koushokuka 好色家 lecher, meibouka 名望家 highly esteemed person, meishinka 迷信家 superstitious person, aikouka 愛好家 enthusiast or fan (of anything), would not.

I have never come across aikdouka in nearly 30 years of residence here and the word does not appear in the Koujien, which is a fairly authoritative monolingual dictionary. Japanese have other ways of describing someone who practises aikido expertly or professionally (shihan being one preferred term).

Thanks for the input! For those of us who've haven't quite reached "shihan" status...what would be the proper term for someone who is really bustin' their butt but is still years away from expert?

 

[arnisador]

I have in front of me the Japanese kanji dictionary I normally use. There are 105 different characters read as KA and the relevant character 家 has about 300 compounds where it appears last in a word. The examples are so wide-ranging that it is impossible to make any general judgment about the precise meaning of KA.

For example, gakka 画家 artist, sakka 作家 novelist, jigyouka 事業家 businessman, might fit the idea of someone who is a professional or expert, but koushokuka 好色家 lecher, meibouka 名望家 highly esteemed person, meishinka 迷信家 superstitious person, aikouka 愛好家 enthusiast or fan (of anything), would not.

I have never come across aikdouka in nearly 30 years of residence here and the word does not appear in the Koujien, which is a fairly authoritative monolingual dictionary. Japanese have other ways of describing someone who practises aikido expertly or professionally (shihan being one preferred term).

Thanks for this well-informed detail! It's definitely appreciated.

Here in the U.S. it seems that shihan is usually used as a "master" title that either comes automatically with 5th dan, or as a possible extra title for someone at that rank. In either case, it is used as an awarded title, not a generic description of an individual.

 

[Last Fearner]

While I am not an expert on the Japanese language (a little more proficient in Korean, but still learning that), it seems to me that the "ka" ending is a more modern blending of two different concepts: The Art, and the practitioner. In English, we tend to use suffixes like this quite commonly to denote a person who does something: A "dancer" is a person who dances; a guitarist is a person who plays the guitar;

The combined root and suffix of "dancer" could be elongated as "dance performer," and "guitarist" could also be labeled a "guitar player." While "dance" can be a verb, it can also be a noun. Thus, dancing is the act of performing the dance. "Guitar" is a noun, and "play" is the verb, therefore the "guitarist" is a person who plays the guitar, or a "guitar player." In this case, the "er" suffix is added to the verb "play" with the noun remaining separate rather than attaching "ist" to the the noun "guitar" to become "guitarist."

I did not check all of my books on Aikido, but before I responded I skimmed through the one written by Koichi Tohei, and edited by Morihei Uyeshiba. Nowhere in the book did I see the term "Aikdidoka," "Aikidoist," or "Akidoin." Although the term AIKIDO is used hundreds of times, any reference to the person who does Aikido is kept separate from the art - - typically something like "the AIKIDO practitioner," or "the AIKIDO student." You could continue this with "Aikido expert," "Aikido disciple," "Aikido teacher," or "Aikido Master." Whatever Japanese term fits those follow up nouns seems to be traditionally kept separate from the name of the Art itself (eg: "Aikido Shihan").

All that being said, this is a linguistics issue of old vs. new; Japanese vs. English translations. I personally do not see any problem with using whatever modern translation in any language that gets the point across. It makes conversation much easier, but I can understand those who keep to the original ways in order to preserve some of the philosophy that is implied by this is the "Art," and that is the "practitioner" and the two are separate yet intertwined like Yin and Yang.

CM D.J. Eisenhart

 

[P A Goldsbury]

Thanks for the input! For those of us who've haven't quite reached "shihan" status...what would be the proper term for someone who is really bustin' their butt but is still years away from expert?

Are you asking about the proper term in English or in Japanese?

In Japanese there is no such proper term and aikidouka does not appear in any monolingual Japanese dictionary. In any case, the vocabulary of a martial art like aikido is rather specialized and the average Japanese would not know what the some of the terms mean. If you ask a Japanese enthusiast whether he/she is an aikidouka, the answer would probably be No, since using the term would imply an income source or expertise that it not necessarily there. Someone who is an expert would use a term like shihan or dojo sekininsha.

In English, aikido is only partially anglicized and so there is a controversy whether to use the Japanese -ka or English -ist. There is no answer to this question.

 

[theletch1]

Are you asking about the proper term in English or in Japanese?

In Japanese there is no such proper term and aikidouka does not appear in any monolingual Japanese dictionary. In any case, the vocabulary of a martial art like aikido is rather specialized and the average Japanese would not know what the some of the terms mean. If you ask a Japanese enthusiast whether he/she is an aikidouka, the answer would probably be No, since using the term would imply an income source or expertise that it not necessarily there. Someone who is an expert would use a term like shihan or dojo sekininsha.

In English, aikido is only partially anglicized and so there is a controversy whether to use the Japanese -ka or English -ist. There is no answer to this question.

A question with no answer? Man, I've seen plenty of those in the dojo.:ultracool
I think that since it's not very likely that I'll find myself defending my usage of the term aikido-ka to refer to myself in a linguistic debate with an expert in the japanese language I'll continue to use it. This has been a very interesting discussion so far.