The Professor Schoolin Razzle Dazzle - Lone Kimono

[Zoran]

Well, both Clyde (professor) and Ras (razzle dazzle) are banned members but this is worth a look and discussion. Posted on KT originally.

Clyde's video

Which is a rebuttal to Ras' below.

 

[MJS]

LOL! I actually talked to Clyde last night for about an hour. It's probably been over a year, if not longer, since we've spoke.

As for the clips...like I said over at KT, Clyde is sticking with the ideal phase, and addressing the potential push/pull punch issues. Ras is basically drifting away from the IP. Again, as I said at KT, its been said that if the tech is done right in the first place, then the odds of anything else happening should be pretty slim. IMHO, I think that teaching the IP first, and then dealing with the stuff Ras is, is the better route.

 

[Zoran]

LOL! I actually talked to Clyde last night for about an hour. It's probably been over a year, if not longer, since we've spoke.

As for the clips...like I said over at KT, Clyde is sticking with the ideal phase, and addressing the potential push/pull punch issues. Ras is basically drifting away from the IP. Again, as I said at KT, its been said that if the tech is done right in the first place, then the odds of anything else happening should be pretty slim. IMHO, I think that teaching the IP first, and then dealing with the stuff Ras is, is the better route.

Ras would not have all the problems if he would stop the bashing. Then again, he would never get the attention he gets now, which I believe is the true reason for the bashing.

 

[Twin Fist]

if you have to bash others to try and make yourself look good you either :

1) are 12 years old

2) suck and you know it and are trying to deflect attention away from your suckiness

or

3) are totally insecure

 

[Yondanchris]

Little does Ras know that the Prof's favorite technique (well in some sense of the phrase) is Lone Kimono...followed by Snapping Twig!

 

[K831]

I don’t see any “schooling” but then again, I don’t assume that a fight will remain in my “ideal” phase either.

like I said over at KT, Clyde is sticking with the ideal phase, and addressing the potential push/pull punch issues.

So the schooling happens when someone’s response to possible alternative scenarios is to post the ideal scenario? That is just a little too “no, you attacked me wrong, attack me this way” for my taste.

My confusion about this is reflected in the next piece of your quote sir;

its been said that if the tech is done right in the first place, then the odds of anything else happening should be pretty slim.

That, and if the attack is done right in the first place. I can’t comment on the bashing done by the ras fellow, as I haven’t been around here much lately, and the last time I posted on his videos was a year or two ago. However, I disagree with what the rebuttal said.

First, he can’t really believe that all he has to do to stop that attack is “check the other side” with a stiff-arm to the shoulder, can he? That displays remarkably limited thinking.

He asks “why would I cover and take the hit….” Well, I would humbly submit, perhaps the guy throwing the punch doesn’t stop for a second to give you time to check the shoulder like your kind uke does from 34-35 seconds in your video? Perhaps the size and reach advantage of your attacker makes reaching and checking that shoulder a low percentage move? Perhaps… ad nauseum

Doesn’t the very fact that he has successfully grabbed and pushed/pulled you indicate that you weren’t engaged and aware? And if that is the case, then it is very likely an “OS” cover is needed momentarily. Not to mention the numerous other reasons you may have been caught off guard and need to cover.

The oversimplification (and yet, over-analyzation)that arts like Kenpo (and I love Kenpo)and others with so many memorized techniques fall into is exactly what we see here; surely he will attack me this way, and I will do this, this way, and then that will cancel out all his options, regardless of any other variables.”

I think a lot of people need to do a lot more live sparring and training against realistic, resisting attacks, and a lot less hypothesizing. Myself included (which is why I haven't been around much in the last few years).

 

[MJS]

I don’t see any “schooling” but then again, I don’t assume that a fight will remain in my “ideal” phase either.

Well first, welcome back to the forum! Hopefully we'll see more of you. As for your questions...yeah, I'm not sure where the schoolin' is either but whatever...lol. Likewise, I also don't assume things will go according to plan.

So the schooling happens when someone’s response to possible alternative scenarios is to post the ideal scenario? That is just a little too “no, you attacked me wrong, attack me this way” for my taste.

LOL, I think the 'schoolin' term is used by Ras, because he feels that his methods are much more superior than anyone elses. There're a few threads here, and numerous over at KenpoTalk. See for yourself. Just make sure you have a few hours to read thru them...LOL!

Here are the differences IMO: Ras: Ras takes the base tech, and adds in all the 'what if' stuff right out of the gate. Take Delayed Sword for example. Its a rt. hand lapel grab, right? Ras will say that nobody just grabs without (insert all of the other stuff), so his IP tech DS, no longer looks anything like DS.

Clyde: He takes DS as it is, and goes with it. However, as we've seen in his rebuttle clips to Ras, he's also addressing the potential grab and push or pull, punch, etc.

I don't think it has anything to do with 'no you attacked me wrong' but instead that Ras, according to some, is seriously missing the point of the original lesson that the techs are teaching. Myself, when I teach, yes, I try to get them to do the lesson, thus I need my 'attacker' to attack me correctly. However, once the students learn the IP, where everything goes according to plan, I expand on the lesson, working on the other things that can happen, ie: the guy doesnt step when he punches, steps with the opposite leg, does anything to make the flow of the tech, not happen in a smooth fashion.

My confusion about this is reflected in the next piece of your quote sir;



That, and if the attack is done right in the first place. I can’t comment on the bashing done by the ras fellow, as I haven’t been around here much lately, and the last time I posted on his videos was a year or two ago. However, I disagree with what the rebuttal said.

1) First, he can’t really believe that all he has to do to stop that attack is “check the other side” with a stiff-arm to the shoulder, can he? That displays remarkably limited thinking.

2) He asks “why would I cover and take the hit….” Well, I would humbly submit, perhaps the guy throwing the punch doesn’t stop for a second to give you time to check the shoulder like your kind uke does from 34-35 seconds in your video? Perhaps the size and reach advantage of your attacker makes reaching and checking that shoulder a low percentage move? Perhaps… ad nauseum

3) Doesn’t the very fact that he has successfully grabbed and pushed/pulled you indicate that you weren’t engaged and aware? And if that is the case, then it is very likely an “OS” cover is needed momentarily. Not to mention the numerous other reasons you may have been caught off guard and need to cover.

4) The oversimplification (and yet, over-analyzation)that arts like Kenpo (and I love Kenpo)and others with so many memorized techniques fall into is exactly what we see here; surely he will attack me this way, and I will do this, this way, and then that will cancel out all his options, regardless of any other variables.”

5) I think a lot of people need to do a lot more live sparring and training against realistic, resisting attacks, and a lot less hypothesizing. Myself included (which is why I haven't been around much in the last few years).

Well, like I said, those words weren't from me. I'm only saying what others have said....that if the tech is done right, you shouldn't have to worry about a 'what if' happening. According to Doc, and I can only go on how I've understood what he's posted, as I've never had the opportunity to train with him live, but the way he does his stuff, its an automatic built in default, that any other 'what ifs' are addressed. Yes, you're correct, as I said above, if everything goes according to plan, however, we both know that its the case.

1) I'd say the stuff arm check is pretty good to stop the punch, but (and again this is an assumption, I've never physically worked with Clyde) I'm sure he can do other things as well.

2) Like I said, the stop/check is, IMO, 1 option. I can almost justify covering as a method of defending the punch, however, I don't want to stand there and get pummeled on either. Perhaps a shot to the face or eyes from the defender would be a good pre-empt.

3) See, IMO, I'd be willing to say that more than half of the schools out there, only cover what I call the 'during' phase of an attack. In other words, this is what you do when you're attacked. The "before" and "after" phases are rarely, if ever taught. IMO, those things are very valuable to SD. Using simple actions to avoid/defuse a situation before they happen, are key. Furthermore, the 'after' is just as important. So yes, while we should be aware, thats not always an option. No, if I were to see someone reaching towards me, of course I'm going to block their arm away, thus preventing the grab. I'm a big fan of pre-emptive strikes. Why wait for that punch to be 2 in. away from my face, before I defend myself? Only a fool does that! LOL!

4) LOL, true. One time during a class, I picked a few techs for the class to do. They paired up and worked them in the perfect world setting. Then I had the attacker do something while the defender was doing the tech. Ex: Delayed Sword, I'd have them throw punches, start to push/pull, grab with the other hand, try to take them down, etc. My goal was to show them what could happen, and to see how well they'd think out of the box. Personally, when I do my techs, I love to do them spontaneous. I don''t wanna know whats coming. Just attack, and I'll see what I do. Rarely do I ever do a preset tech, but instead I use parts of them or better yet, the basics, to defend myself.

5) AMEN to that!!!! That and scenario drilling. Put together a red man suit or get some protective gear on that won't restrict movement too much, but still offer some protection, and go at it!! Get the student into the right mindset. Peyton Quinn did it with his program, why can't we do it with ours? IMHO, thats the best way to train!

I hope that answered your questions. Let me know if you have any more.