The Pre-Emptive Strike

[MJS]

Ok, I know I probably shouldnt start this thread, but I'll do it anyway!! Hopefully, it wont cause too much trouble. Considering we've had people post threads with pictures, people asking about Honor or Freedom, etc. I thought I'd start something along the same lines.

Taking into consideration what the 'bystanders' are going to see, if you were in a confrontation, and after you've exhausted all other possible options, IE- talking your way out, trying to walk away, etc if you honestly felt that this guy was going to take a swing at you, which of the following would you do.

A- Wait until you were 100% sure that he was going to hit you, wait until he started to draw back, throw the punch and then block, or

B- As soon as you saw him start to move, hit him, and end the situation.

Again, keeping in mind the people standing around possibly watching this happen.

Any thoughts? i'm sure I dont have to tell many of you what I would do!!

Mike

 

[Cruentus]

If I have evidence that someone has obtained mass quantities of uranium, and is hiding it in their pockets, then I get to kick the crap out of them, then go to the hospital to help them rehabilitate, while stealing all their oil. :lol:

Couldn't resist! :boing2:

 

[MJS]

If I have evidence that someone has obtained mass quantities of uranium, and is hiding it in their pockets, then I get to kick the crap out of them, then go to the hospital to help them rehabilitate, while stealing all their oil. :lol:

Couldn't resist! :boing2:

:boing2: :boing2:

Mike

 

[Touch Of Death]

Ok, I know I probably shouldnt start this thread, but I'll do it anyway!! Hopefully, it wont cause too much trouble. Considering we've had people post threads with pictures, people asking about Honor or Freedom, etc. I thought I'd start something along the same lines.

Taking into consideration what the 'bystanders' are going to see, if you were in a confrontation, and after you've exhausted all other possible options, IE- talking your way out, trying to walk away, etc if you honestly felt that this guy was going to take a swing at you, which of the following would you do.

A- Wait until you were 100% sure that he was going to hit you, wait until he started to draw back, throw the punch and then block, or

B- As soon as you saw him start to move, hit him, and end the situation.

Again, keeping in mind the people standing around possibly watching this happen.

Any thoughts? i'm sure I dont have to tell many of you what I would do!!

Mike

Once it was clear to me I had to fight, I would fight. Screw waiting for him to get ready; however, sometimes we create our own predicaments... Mike :asian: .
Sean

 

[MJS]

Once it was clear to me I had to fight, I would fight. Screw waiting for him to get ready; however, sometimes we create our own predicaments... Mike :asian: .
Sean

Yup, good point! I just thought it would be interesting to get a few more viewpoints, considering that there are some who seem to think that defending yourself, without making sure that your a** is covered is wrong. The first thing on my mind is going to be to make sure that I dont get hit. Worrying about the cops, lawyers, judge and jury will not be on my mind at that given moment.

Mike

 

[arnisandyz]

Taking into consideration what the 'bystanders' are going to see, if you were in a confrontation, and after you've exhausted all other possible options, IE- talking your way out, trying to walk away, etc if you honestly felt that this guy was going to take a swing at you, which of the following would you do.

If you tried talking to de-esculating the situation 'I don't want to fight, etc..." it shows to the bystanders your point of view. One possibility is to throw elbows up in a defensive posture "NO, don't hit me!" when in reality you are targeting the incoming strike or moving to inside position, covering and swinging elbows. "It looked like he was just trying not to get hit" says on bystander.

 

[Rick Wade]

If you tried talking to de-esculating the situation 'I don't want to fight, etc..." it shows to the bystanders your point of view. One possibility is to throw elbows up in a defensive posture "NO, don't hit me!" when in reality you are targeting the incoming strike or moving to inside position, covering and swinging elbows. "It looked like he was just trying not to get hit" says on bystander.

I'm with you take a fighting stance with the exception of: instead of having your hands in a fist open them and turn them palm out in a non confritational way (as to say I don't want any beef). this will alow you maximum ability to pull off any technique and still look defensive.

 

[MJS]

I'm with you take a fighting stance with the exception of: instead of having your hands in a fist open them and turn them palm out in a non confritational way (as to say I don't want any beef). this will alow you maximum ability to pull off any technique and still look defensive.

Yes, I like that also. Kind of the same principle Tony Blauer uses with his 'Spear' method that he teaches.

Mike

 

[someguy]

Well you can't really be sure they will attack unless you read minds. I can't say what I'd do but I probably would wait for it. Just in case I miss read the situation. That doesn't mean I would sit there with my hands in my pockets. I also wouldn't put up my gaurd. Really I'm not sure wht I would do.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Well you can't really be sure they will attack unless you read minds. I can't say what I'd do but I probably would wait for it. Just in case I miss read the situation. That doesn't mean I would sit there with my hands in my pockets. I also wouldn't put up my gaurd. Really I'm not sure wht I would do.

Most people telegraph their intentions, you had better find a place for your hands.
sean (www.iemat.com)

 

[Gary Crawford]

I'm probably not the best example to follow,but intuition plays a big part.I have been the first to strike a couple of times when I knew the other person wasn't there to talk.It's sorta like this:Bad person " Hey mothSMACK!!!"When the attacker in "known",you know what their intentions are.Some people just can't be reasoned with and why waste your time and give up the suprise advantage if that's the case?

 

[Phoenix44]

If I have evidence that someone has obtained mass quantities of uranium, and is hiding it in their pockets, then I get to kick the crap out of them, then go to the hospital to help them rehabilitate, while stealing all their oil. :lol:

Couldn't resist! :boing2:

Hey, Tulisan, what happens when, after you kick the crap out of the guy, you find out he DIDN'T have any uranium in his pocket? Do you STILL get to steal all his oil?

(Yeah, I couldn't resist either!)

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I've used both hands up, palms facing potential attacker, in an "I surrender" type position, actually planning on using them for defense and counter; and the "thinker" position...one arm folded across the front of the body in the horizontal plane, the other elbow resting on the folded arm, with the hand set to the chin. Provides check positioning for the lower body and upper body/head; most untrained fighters telegraph like heck, and if you're hands are even remotely up you should have a good chance at getting a piece of their initial blow covered. The remainder? Most folks can't seem to hit real hard, either. Then you trash 'em.

Dave

 

[Tony]

If there is no other way and you are cornered, the guy is really in your face then he needs to be taught a lesson! I know from a friend of mine he has sometimes been in this situation in a club and nearly had to bottle someone. I know his female cousin did this to another girl, very nasty!

 

[MJS]

Well you can't really be sure they will attack unless you read minds. I can't say what I'd do but I probably would wait for it. Just in case I miss read the situation. That doesn't mean I would sit there with my hands in my pockets. I also wouldn't put up my gaurd. Really I'm not sure wht I would do.

Well, I would think that if someone was in your face, yelling at you, calling you names, there is a good chance that if the guy went this far, that he may take a swing at you. I'd at least have my hands up in a "Hey, I'm sorry man, I dont want any trouble" fashion. Palms out, while at the same time, taking a small step back to get into a better stance. At least by doing that, there is something between my face and his fist.

Just a thought.

Mike

 

[MJS]

I'm probably not the best example to follow,but intuition plays a big part.I have been the first to strike a couple of times when I knew the other person wasn't there to talk.It's sorta like this:Bad person " Hey mothSMACK!!!"When the attacker in "known",you know what their intentions are.Some people just can't be reasoned with and why waste your time and give up the suprise advantage if that's the case?

Good point. The sucker punch comes to my mind here.

Mike

 

[axioma]

Hello all,

I might be wrong here, but a lot of you talk like you've actually been in a couple of fights here. Is there so much more criminality where you come from ? I live in quite a big city, but the moment I sense something is wrong (like some of you have mentionned: you know when somebody wants to hit you, they give way too many signals), I just split. Not even running, just calmly walking away, and this has always worked for me.

Once, when I was up against a little gang, i just dodged the first attack (dodge it, not block it) and than just ran.

so generally you could say I'm all for the principle: 'when you get into a fight your true self-defence has already failed.'

About the question now: Should I ever be unable to avoid a fight, I would not use a pre-emptive strike. it doesn't suit me as principle. It's like you all said: when somebody really wants to hit you they signal. This gives you enough time to
a) dodge the attack
b) prepare a block for the attack.

So that's what I'd do. Well, that's what I'd say I'd do. I've luckily never been in a situation where I've had to think about such things. It is a nice question to ponder however.

cheers,
:asian:
axioma

 

[loki09789]

There is nothing in the wording or intent of use of force/deadly force laws that mandate that you have to go down a checklist of lesser responses OR that you have to give the other guy(s) the first shot before you can respond with physical force. Generally, there is a duty to retreat either stated or implied in the wording with the stipulation that by doing so you are not putting yourself in further danger.

Biggest thing is - whether you strike pre-emptively or not - to make sure the threat is reasonably obvious to you (as well as others when you have to deal with the legal stuff) and that your responding force is appropriate (including when you stop).

If someone is layering verbal threats along with impeding my escape mixed in with other factors that can stack up to a reasonable threat, I will use a pre-emptive strike as a means to create an escape route. Continuums are not checklists, you can jump from step 1 to step 20 if need be or start at step 10 instead of one depending on the situation.

 

[MJS]

Hello all,

I might be wrong here, but a lot of you talk like you've actually been in a couple of fights here. Is there so much more criminality where you come from ? I live in quite a big city, but the moment I sense something is wrong (like some of you have mentionned: you know when somebody wants to hit you, they give way too many signals), I just split. Not even running, just calmly walking away, and this has always worked for me.

First, welcome to the forum and the discussion! Now, a question for you. If you felt that someone was going to hit you, you said that you'd just calmly walk away. So, are you saying that you'd turn your back on that person? The majoirty of sucker punches happen at that time. 2 people are arguing, they both turn, and next thing you know...BAM! the other guy throws a punch, catching the other guy off guard.

Once, when I was up against a little gang, i just dodged the first attack (dodge it, not block it) and than just ran.

Did they chase after you?

so generally you could say I'm all for the principle: 'when you get into a fight your true self-defence has already failed.'

I wouldnt say that. Like its been said many times already, talking, walking away, etc. are always gonna be your best options. However, that will not always work.

About the question now: Should I ever be unable to avoid a fight, I would not use a pre-emptive strike. it doesn't suit me as principle. It's like you all said: when somebody really wants to hit you they signal. This gives you enough time to
a) dodge the attack

So if I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like you're always going to be on the defense? How safe can that be and how long do you think its going to last?

b) prepare a block for the attack.

So you'd wait until that punch is already on its way before you'd do anything? Dont you think that intercepting it wouldnt be a better and safe choice?

So that's what I'd do. Well, that's what I'd say I'd do. I've luckily never been in a situation where I've had to think about such things. It is a nice question to ponder however.

Thank you for taking the time to reply! Again, I came up with this topic due to the recent threds on self defense. I also think, IMO, that if you know that an attack is coming..a punch, kick, etc. then why wait until its almost connected before you react? One of my old instructors always used to say, "Your best defense is a good offense!" and to this day, that always sticks in my mind.

Just a thought.

Mike

 

[axioma]

Hi again,

These are good points your making. Especially, the best defence is a good offence seems very true.
However we have to keep something in mind. Just as some martial arts suit some people better than others (I for instance like my sturdy, hard shotokan karate, you might like a completely different fighting system), some fighting styles suit some people better than others. From what I make up of this thread, the pre-emptive strike is definately a good method for you. Not to say it wouldn't work for me as well, but I personally prefer to let the other person make the first move.

And this may seem strange for someone who thoroughly enjoys martials arts training: I really don't like hitting people (outside of the dojo that is), even when some may say they deserve it. That's why I shall always opt for running away.

I hope this clarifies my earlier post

cheerfully yours,
:asian:
axioma