The Physics of Martial Arts

[Bill Mattocks]

Interesting article:

What Physics Can Tell Us About Martial Arts | Inside Science

 

[Xue Sheng]

Fight like a Physicist

 

[pgsmith]

Fight like a Physicist

I have worked with several physicists, and not a one of them could fight their way past a three legged kitten.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Fight like a physicist? You mean, with nuclear bombs, laser beams... that sort of stuff, right?

 

[Xue Sheng]

On a more serious note:

Newton's Three Laws of Motion

I. An object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.

II. The acceleration of an object as produced by a net force is directly proportional to the magnitude of the net force, in the same direction as the net force, and inversely proportional to the mass of the object.

III. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The statement means that in every interaction, there is a pair of forces acting on the two interacting objects. The size of the forces on the first object equals the size of the force on the second object..

Welcome to Taijiquan....

 

[elder999]

I have worked with several physicists, and not a one of them could fight their way past a three legged kitten.

-ahem!-

 

[JowGaWolf]

I see he brings the gloves vs no gloves debate into the discussions. He's the only that I've heard say that boxing without the gloves is safer for the brain and not over all safer. He mentions the trade off between protecting the brain and having broken bones.

"If you're not able to throw full force punches at your opponent's face and head without personal repercussion, that's a very different, you'll take a very different approach to your fighting style."
I didn't like this statement much because it takes into the assumption that fighters wouldn't condition the hands. The other issue is that fighters would then be more specific of where they hit by targeting softer areas on the head and face. Understanding the martial arts that I do, some of the techniques are designed to target the vulnerable spots on the body. We have a certain technique that strikes the top of the head. From first glance the question becomes, why would I want to attack the top of the head. After thinking about it, the answer is that I'm not attacking the head, I'm attacking the neck and spine via the head.

Martial arts is complex and what looks like an attack to one place is actually attacking something else. Brain damage is never good and I think fighting without gloves is going to be just as risky as fighting with gloves.

I'm glad he's looking at Martial Arts from a physics perspective he's got a big task set before him.

 

[pgsmith]

-ahem!-

Got to give you some low hanging fruit on occasion! I knew you wouldn't be able to pass that one up.

 

[drop bear]

I have worked with several physicists, and not a one of them could fight their way past a three legged kitten.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I have worked with several physicists, and not a one of them could fight their way past a three legged kitten.

I have a physics degree, does that count?

 

[elder999]

I have a physics degree, does that count?

I have a PhD in applied physics.

It counts.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I see he brings the gloves vs no gloves debate into the discussions. He's the only that I've heard say that boxing without the gloves is safer for the brain and not over all safer. He mentions the trade off between protecting the brain and having broken bones.

"If you're not able to throw full force punches at your opponent's face and head without personal repercussion, that's a very different, you'll take a very different approach to your fighting style."
I didn't like this statement much because it takes into the assumption that fighters wouldn't condition the hands. The other issue is that fighters would then be more specific of where they hit by targeting softer areas on the head and face. Understanding the martial arts that I do, some of the techniques are designed to target the vulnerable spots on the body. We have a certain technique that strikes the top of the head. From first glance the question becomes, why would I want to attack the top of the head. After thinking about it, the answer is that I'm not attacking the head, I'm attacking the neck and spine via the head.

Martial arts is complex and what looks like an attack to one place is actually attacking something else. Brain damage is never good and I think fighting without gloves is going to be just as risky as fighting with gloves.

I'm glad he's looking at Martial Arts from a physics perspective he's got a big task set before him.

Sorry, thanks for playing, but Boxing was safer before gloves.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I have a PhD in applied physics.

It counts.

I studied Physics...and I can count....but that is as far as I can take it

 

[JowGaWolf]

Sorry, thanks for playing, but Boxing was safer before gloves.

Bare knuckle boxing is not the same as bare knuckle martial arts. Boxing = punches only

Martial arts = Punching, kicking, kneeing, elbowing

Open palm strikes to the head still cause the same damage that gloves cause of making the brain smash against the skull, In martial arts there are techniques which allow you to strike the head full power without injuring the fists. Any of these techniques you can still land enough power to damage the brain. How many street fights have you seen on you tube where non professional fighters threw a punch and it knocked the other person out? How many fights have we seen where a knee or kick has hit the head and done the same thing? A knock out from the punch of the head is a visual indication that damage to the brain has occurred. This is what the guy's article is talking about.

The question of how to punch the head as hard as you can without damaging the hand has been answered a long time ago by martial arts fighting systems. He even touches on this in his quote "One of the things that boxing gloves and MMA gloves do is they provide a lot of protection for the hands. If you're not able to throw full force punches at your opponent's face and head without personal repercussion, that's a very different, you'll take a very different approach to your fighting style." Almost every martial art system has a different approach that allows the practitioner to strike the head full force without damaging their hands. These approaches can be found in exercises that condition the hands and in the techniques that are used.

Boxing punching development was stunted because of the gloves. Had the gloves not been used, the natural development of the punching technique would have been centered around learning "how can I punch my opponent's head without hurting my hand." Hand conditioning would have come into play and techniques would have been developed to get into the smaller areas of the head. Strikes would be more targeted as there would be no bulky glove to get in the way. Martial arts has already been through this phase for developing punches.

 

[Mephisto]

Bare knuckle boxing is not the same as bare knuckle martial arts. Boxing = punches only

Martial arts = Punching, kicking, kneeing, elbowing

Open palm strikes to the head still cause the same damage that gloves cause of making the brain smash against the skull, In martial arts there are techniques which allow you to strike the head full power without injuring the fists. Any of these techniques you can still land enough power to damage the brain. How many street fights have you seen on you tube where non professional fighters threw a punch and it knocked the other person out? How many fights have we seen where a knee or kick has hit the head and done the same thing? A knock out from the punch of the head is a visual indication that damage to the brain has occurred. This is what the guy's article is talking about.

The question of how to punch the head as hard as you can without damaging the hand has been answered a long time ago by martial arts fighting systems. He even touches on this in his quote "One of the things that boxing gloves and MMA gloves do is they provide a lot of protection for the hands. If you're not able to throw full force punches at your opponent's face and head without personal repercussion, that's a very different, you'll take a very different approach to your fighting style." Almost every martial art system has a different approach that allows the practitioner to strike the head full force without damaging their hands. These approaches can be found in exercises that condition the hands and in the techniques that are used.

Boxing punching development was stunted because of the gloves. Had the gloves not been used, the natural development of the punching technique would have been centered around learning "how can I punch my opponent's head without hurting my hand." Hand conditioning would have come into play and techniques would have been developed to get into the smaller areas of the head. Strikes would be more targeted as there would be no bulky glove to get in the way. Martial arts has already been through this phase for developing punches.

Modern bare knuckle boxing (bkb) might mean punches only buy pre Queensbury rules boxing involved a lot more than strictly punching. It included standup grappling, throws, and the use of spiked boots. I'd agree that without the advent of gloves modern boxing would be quite different but I argue that gloves actually have enabled a higher developmeny of punches and punch defenses. You can train more frequently and harder with the use of gloves which enables a practirioner to reach a higher skill. The classical boxing stance reflects the boxing trend pre Queensbury rules, the advent of Queensbury rules and the introduction of gloves changed the game and encouraged a more evasive and effective imo strategy. I think without gloves there would still be heavy hitting, to the head due to the skill of fighters there would still be plenty of missed shots and shots intended for soft targets landing on hard targets. The gloves would just allow fighters to train harder when they're not fighting. Some argue that bkb fighters wouldn't or didn't throw punches full force to the head but I disagree, I think in the heat of the fight both fighters go all out and throw all the power they can, I can't imagine consciously throwing lightly to protect your hands when you're trying to ko the other guy before gets the ko.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You can train more frequently and harder with the use of gloves which enables a practirioner to reach a higher skill.

Not sure what you mean about this.

 

[drop bear]

Not sure what you mean about this.

You can't bare knuckle fight with anywhere near the regularity as you can glove fight.

You can't even bare knuckle train at the same intensity.

Bare knuckle fighters train with gloves on. The skills are pretty similar.

 

[RTKDCMB]

You can't even bare knuckle train at the same intensity.

Why not?

 

[Dirty Dog]

You can't even bare knuckle train at the same intensity.

You can't? Damn... I didn't know that. I guess I'll have to stop now.

 

[drop bear]

Why not?

Your hands would fall off.