Are YOU a Martial Artist or Martial Scientist?

[MartialIntent]

This sounds an awful lot like a "-do" vs "jutsu" debate.

Point taken though I feel there is potential to create as much art in jutsu as -do and I do not believe jutsu is in any way inferior to -do as we are led to believe.

And for the record...I am a martial artist.:asian:

I think many of us [I might include myself in this] declare ourselves as artists believing this to confer greater sophistication upon us than by being "mere" practitioners of a martial science.

Martial ART is what many of us allude to but perhaps do not yet practise. Presumably many of you do though! Let me be clear, I in no way wish to belittle what we practise. Martial science and martial art have equal merit but they are still discrete concepts for that.

What I'm getting at here might be better illustrated by example. Ueshiba [Aikido forefather] was the architypal martial artist. He learnt the scientific tenets of his chosen disciplines through a variety of sources. However, he then transposed those principles into what could only be classified as art. Through Aikido he created and gave the community something wholly unique. Similarly Bruce Lee, Royce Gracie and a hundred others [you know them] but artists nonetheless. Art is something unique that cannot be replicated. And I think therein lies the key: creation and uniqueness, that's the art and they are artists.

Aikido is an art, Muay Thai is an art, Ilustrisimo, BJJ, the great and the good, they're all arts. However, we are not made artists by virtue of the fact that we practise an art. I think there's maybe a degree of conceit in all of us practitioners of the martial disciplines.

FWIW, I would envisage myself as martial scientist [with

 

[Maltair]

I don't know about that last section MartialIntent, If I learned how to paint tommorrow, I would be an artist. But I certainly wouldn't be painting a Mona Lisa. Hence the term, starving artist.
You spend the time learning the science of a disipline to achive enlightenment or betterment (is that a word?) You experiment and hypothisis, practice and perfect what ever art it is, untill you can see the statue within the rock, hear the music in your head and put it to paper, untill you can see his trigger finger move and dodge that bullet
When I work tech I analyze and build on to the info I already know.
When I work forms, I don't think, I breath and let the motions flow across the mat, putting on a show for all who care to watch.

(Wow, I think I just took another step in my journey :ultracool )

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

Hmmm...I read through this thread and it seems a bit confusing.

In my limited experience, science is an exploratory and reproducible process. It observes, hypothesizes, theorizes and proves or disproves. It's continuance is based on the reproducibility of it's findings. Martial arts has some of these processes, too; but then, so does all human experience.

What martial arts can do, I think, is incorporate the individual holistically. One can mimic and repeat all one is taught and become technically adept; but, interpreting and expressing the style individualistically makes it an art.

Only an opinion.

edit: Martial ARTist

 

[Henderson]

One can mimic and repeat all one is taught and become technically adept; but, interpreting and expressing the style individualistically makes it an art.

Very good point!
:bow:

 

[MartialIntent]

What martial arts can do, I think, is incorporate the individual holistically. One can mimic and repeat all one is taught and become technically adept; but, interpreting and expressing the style individualistically makes it an art.

Spot on! Interpretation and expressivity are fundimentals within any "art". The question is though, is this what we're all doing? I for one, admire those with this flair for individuality, creativity and interpretation within their chosen discipline. Unfortunately, I only know these artists through what I have read, through cinema and martial literature etc. As I alluded to earlier, I have the utmost respect for my contemporaries and superiors in my circle and in the wider martial arts world. I'd maintain though that most of us are practising the martial science - the creativity [the ART!] is not always encouraged as we go through the mechanics in the dojo.

Only an opinion.

Most welcome - thank you to all of you in fact who continue to provide very insightful, interesting and individual contributions!:asian:

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

Spot on! Interpretation and expressivity are fundimentals within any "art". The question is though, is this what we're all doing? I for one, admire those with this flair for individuality, creativity and interpretation within their chosen discipline. Unfortunately, I only know these artists through what I have read, through cinema and martial literature etc. As I alluded to earlier, I have the utmost respect for my contemporaries and superiors in my circle and in the wider martial arts world. I'd maintain though that most of us are practising the martial science - the creativity [the ART!] is not always encouraged as we go through the mechanics in the dojo.

I would have a difficult time placing myself correctly in a response proper as I am a mere beginner. I am still striving toward technical accomplishment; however, I can feel the discipline moving within and without me, affecting my day-to-day perceptions. This is a manifestation, I'm sure, of the artist aspect. Chemistry class did not affect me this way

 

[Navarre]

I would have a difficult time placing myself correctly in a response proper as I am a mere beginner.

Your response doesn't convey the perception of a "beginner". I think your answer shows a keen perception of what The Art can bring to your life.

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

Domo, Navarre; but, with respect to Martial Arts, I am a beginner. I do have, however, 44 years of experience to draw upon when replying to such posts. I am fortunate that I can combine such experience with this new, wonderful experience

 

[Navarre]

And yet when you're 84 you'll be rambling on about that time in 2005 when you went to a tournament and blah, blah, blah; just annoying the great-grandkids and calling everyone "Steve" because you can't remember the little girl's name. Such is the passage of wisdom. lol

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

rofl...'strue!