The Passion of The Christ

[ShaolinWolf]

And so, they don't want the real truth to come out...I mean, ever since they turned their back on the Real God, they just think that everything is going their way...Well what of the middle eastern wars, hmmm?...heh...I think we need a movie that show the truth of the story on both sides, not just the truth of Jesus only. I'm not prejudice against the Jews, only their religion. They think that they are God's chosen people still and they totally missed the message. Don't you think that God has the option of saying who is and who isn't his people? LOL. If anything, Christianity is open to everyone, even Jews. Jewish belief is kind of different. It's open, but a little harsh. If you aren't a Jew, excommunicate them or at least ignore them until they understand that they should be of jewish religion. BAH! Christians accept people, of course we want people to change, but we don't excommunicate people if they don't change after they have accepted Christ as LORD and SAVIOUR...

 

[rmcrobertson]

I realize that reason and facts will have very little effect in this case, but, "to excommunicate," somebody means to remove from them the Sacrament of Communion, to throw them out of the body of communicants who make up the Church.

It is, therefore, something that has nothing whatsoever to do with Judaism, which to my knowledge has no custom or ritual whatsoever of drumming people out of its ranks.

Cheer up--I could have made some crack about the behavior of Christendom during the Crusades.

 

[OULobo]

I have to say Mr. Gibson has the right to make any movie he wants and he has exercised that right. He also has the attitude that while he isn't striving to rustle feathers, he isn't going to stray from his vision for any reason. I think that is quite admirable. just as long as people remember that Mel is a dedicated Catholic and the religion's mysticism and doctrine will be evident along with the "realism" or "direct translation" of the bible that he is trying to portray.

 

[loki09789]

"With the "story", well The Bible is God-breathed, meaning every word of the Bible is true and accurate. Yes, man's hands wrote the Bible, but the whole thing is 100% accurate. If it weren't, then why believe in a god who writes only part of the truth, history, or philosophy? God talked to each author of the Bible and basically wrote what he dictated. God doesn't talk in thee's and thou and such, He talks in a language that we all understand..."

I am not disputing the divinity of the Bible, I am saying that the books of the Bible are represented as Gospels, not historical records, therefore they are proclaiming and attesting to the validity of the Christ. Even historical documents can be biased. The Godly intention is one thing, the human expression is another - regardless of religion. The new testament gospels don't agree on specifics of locations, events at times. There may be facts and accuracies in the text, but they only serve to proclaim the Christ.

The books were not set in written form until long after the original event - and usually not by the person the book is named after, but a well meaning disciple who may, at the earliest, have written down an account that was 80 years or more after the event itself - which the disciple hadn't even witnessed himself.

Plus there are so many vague descriptions of what the cross looked like and so on. The Gibson film is relying on the old Bible movie images to link people emotionally to this film. There are written correspondence by other Roman Prefects about Pontius Pilot that make him out to be a mean, by the book, ambitious man. The movie is reputed to make him out to be a sympathetic character, who knows because we weren't there. And, quite honestly when did Jesus have time to recount the story of his interviews with P. Pilot to any of his disciples for them to pass the story on, or write it down. He was a little busy being abused, beaten and crucified.

I am still faithful to my faith, in spite of these arguable points, maybe that is how I have to know that I believe or don't. That is faith at it's root, believing inspite of the lack of definitive proof, not ignoring the 'anti-faith' logical arguments.

My main point is that Gibson is touching audience emotions and inspirations with this film, more than he is trying to make an accurate image film. In the end, who will really know, we can only guess as best we can.

Paul M

 

[hardheadjarhead]

And so, they don't want the real truth to come out...I mean, ever since they turned their back on the Real God, they just think that everything is going their way...Well what of the middle eastern wars, hmmm?...heh...I think we need a movie that show the truth of the story on both sides, not just the truth of Jesus only. I'm not prejudice against the Jews, only their religion. They think that they are God's chosen people still and they totally missed the message. Don't you think that God has the option of saying who is and who isn't his people? LOL. If anything, Christianity is open to everyone, even Jews. Jewish belief is kind of different. It's open, but a little harsh. If you aren't a Jew, excommunicate them or at least ignore them until they understand that they should be of jewish religion. BAH! Christians accept people, of course we want people to change, but we don't excommunicate people if they don't change after they have accepted Christ as LORD and SAVIOUR...

If I may...

1. The God of Abraham...same God for both Judaism and Christianity. Your statement of the Jews turning their back on "The Real God" is incorrect. True, they deny that Jesus was God in the flesh, but they have NEVER denied the God of Abraham.

2. The Jews hardly think since the time of Christ "everything is going their way." Your knowledge of the history of persecution of the Jews is abysmal. Prior to the Holocaust Jews were hounded and killed by Christians. The Inquistion, Russian pogroms, scapegoating of Jews and their murder during the various plagues that afflicted Europe...the list goes on. The Jews joke that they are "The Chosen People", but they wish God would chose someone else once in a while.

3. Christians do in fact excommunicate. They invented the word and the concept. They also have a history of killing other Christians. Apparently you've not heard of the struggles between Catholics and Protestants over the last 500 years.

Please understand I really have no problem with Christianity per se, but I will not brook bigoted malignment of the Jews. At risk of censure by the mods I will say without hesitiation that your post was one of the most ignorant, ill informed, biased and damnable pieces of drivel I have ever read on this forum.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Rich Parsons]

If I may...

1. The God of Abraham...same God for both Judaism and Christianity. Your statement of the Jews turning their back on "The Real God" is incorrect. True, they deny that Jesus was God in the flesh, but they have NEVER denied the God of Abraham.

2. The Jews hardly think since the time of Christ "everything is going their way." Your knowledge of the history of persecution of the Jews is abysmal. Prior to the Holocaust Jews were hounded and killed by Christians. The Inquistion, Russian pogroms, scapegoating of Jews and their murder during the various plagues that afflicted Europe...the list goes on. The Jews joke that they are "The Chosen People", but they wish God would chose someone else once in a while.

3. Christians do in fact excommunicate. They invented the word and the concept. They also have a history of killing other Christians. Apparently you've not heard of the struggles between Catholics and Protestants over the last 500 years.

Please understand I really have no problem with Christianity per se, but I will not brook bigoted malignment of the Jews. At risk of censure by the mods I will say without hesitiation that your post was one of the most ignorant, ill informed, biased and damnable pieces of drivel I have ever read on this forum.


Regards,


Steve

Even the Muslims who worship the same God, recognize the prophets including Jesus Christ and Mohammad the Last Prophet (* As the Muslims believe *)

Both the Sunni and the *****e factions believe this.

 

[OULobo]

Even the Muslims who worship the same God, recognize the prophets including Jesus Christ and Mohammad the Last Prophet (* As the Muslims believe *)

Both the Sunni and the *****e factions believe this.

True, but most christians state that Jesus was infact God by the Trinity and so not accepting him as highest is sin. Another problem is that many Muslims believe in Mohammad as the most high prophet and since his coming was after the split of Christianity from Judaism, most christians don't recognize him as a prophet at all. The disagreement isn't in the root of the religion, the Judaic God, but in his followers and their methods.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Even the Muslims who worship the same God, recognize the prophets including Jesus Christ and Mohammad the Last Prophet (* As the Muslims believe *)

Both the Sunni and the *****e factions believe this.

Most Christians I know do not believe this. I can give a few reasons but I got enough problems on this site without ticking off muslims.

 

[someguy]

If I may...

1. The God of Abraham...same God for both Judaism and Christianity. Your statement of the Jews turning their back on "The Real God" is incorrect. True, they deny that Jesus was God in the flesh, but they have NEVER denied the God of Abraham.

2. The Jews hardly think since the time of Christ "everything is going their way." Your knowledge of the history of persecution of the Jews is abysmal. Prior to the Holocaust Jews were hounded and killed by Christians. The Inquistion, Russian pogroms, scapegoating of Jews and their murder during the various plagues that afflicted Europe...the list goes on. The Jews joke that they are "The Chosen People", but they wish God would chose someone else once in a while.

3. Christians do in fact excommunicate. They invented the word and the concept. They also have a history of killing other Christians. Apparently you've not heard of the struggles between Catholics and Protestants over the last 500 years.

Quite right you also left out some things but I'll leave that alone for now. With the possible exeption on the one true God. I personally am christian but there are other religions on this board that may take offense.

As to you Shaolin wolf perhaps things came out wrong the sound some what anti-jewish. Please be more carefull with your words.

If something I said offends some one I apologize my words may have come out wrong or been in error.
:asian: Peace. :asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

True, but most christians state that Jesus was infact God by the Trinity and so not accepting him as highest is sin. Another problem is that many Muslims believe in Mohammad as the most high prophet and since his coming was after the split of Christianity from Judaism, most christians don't recognize him as a prophet at all. The disagreement isn't in the root of the religion, the Judaic God, but in his followers and their methods.

I agree it is the followers of a religion or sect of a religion that have the disagreement. If you look and the basic beliefs, there are close.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Most Christians I know do not believe this. I can give a few reasons but I got enough problems on this site without ticking off muslims.

Yes, it is funny (* Wierd *) in my mind how the Christians one of the most accepting groups do not recognize Islam or Muhammad.

Maybe, just maybe, God sent different people at different times to help people out. Who is to say another prophet is not on this earth today? I do not know.

Most of the Muslims would have heard the reasons, yet I appreciate you views and hesitation.

 

[Andi]

Yes, it is funny (* Wierd *) in my mind how the Christians one of the most accepting groups do not recognize Islam or Muhammad.

Maybe, just maybe, God sent different people at different times to help people out. Who is to say another prophet is not on this earth today? I do not know.

Most of the Muslims would have heard the reasons, yet I appreciate you views and hesitation.

The thing is though Rich, why would Christians recognise Islam or Mohammed? True, Christianity teaches acceptance and tolerance, and Christians by their own standards should treat Muslims with all the respect they deserve. However, the Bible is clear on Jesus being the only way to God, and the resurrection as the ultimate redemption. So Mohammed's message cannot be acceptable to christians as "another route". The two just aren't compatible.

So fair enough, if you don't believe the bible, then the (superficially) minor differences between Islam and Christianity won't matter to you too much, but if you're going to be a Christian, you can't pick and choose what you'd like to believe (even though many do in my experience!).


EDIT: Rich, I've just read your Group A vs Group B post on the Gay Marriage thread. I see where you are coming from now. I'll have to read all the threads before posting from now on I think! The dangers of multiple religious threads.

 

[OULobo]

I agree it is the followers of a religion or sect of a religion that have the disagreement. If you look and the basic beliefs, there are close.

They are more than close, they are dead on. The principles of a "decent person" are the same the world over.

 

[Rich Parsons]

The thing is though Rich, why would Christians recognise Islam or Mohammed? True, Christianity teaches acceptance and tolerance, and Christians by their own standards should treat Muslims with all the respect they deserve. However, the Bible is clear on Jesus being the only way to God, and the resurrection as the ultimate redemption. So Mohammed's message cannot be acceptable to christians as "another route". The two just aren't compatible.

So fair enough, if you don't believe the bible, then the (superficially) minor differences between Islam and Christianity won't matter to you too much, but if you're going to be a Christian, you can't pick and choose what you'd like to believe (even though many do in my experience!).

Andi,

If Christians (* And other religions as well*) , would accept that others believe differently and allow that there is a difference and accept that. Then there would be less problems. If you could accept that the Muslims and the Jews believe differently and maybe just maybe received a different word from on high, the people could get along. I do not believe it is the only way, I believe it is the best way for Christians. Others may believen differently.

I agree with you and your last sentence completely. I should cut off a thief's hand. I should not eat meat on Friday. I should not work on the Sabbath (* Friday Sunset to Saturday Sunset *). I should stone those who have sex out side of marriage. All or nothing. We should not eat pork.

Let us take it even furhter though shall not kill is one of the big ten.

Not eating of animals at all. You are killing or causing something to be killed for you. Then only being a vegitarian is correct.

I do not know of any one religion or church or holy person (Male or female) who follows the complete book of the Bible. And as everyone insists it is either 100% or nothing then, I choose to live my life my way.

I am not trying to be difficult here, yet there are things in the Bible that are forbidden that pious people do today. Just read and think. Listen to others even if you do not believe what they say, if you truly listen then you may at least begiin to understand where they are coming from. And after that you or anyone else might just begin to have tolerance and love for thy brother.

Peace and Respect keep you point of view coming. It helps me learn.
:asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

They are more than close, they are dead on. The principles of a "decent person" are the same the world over.

SHHHH! you do not want to start any wars, about how we have things in common, in the big ways of life, and only the little semantics of which knee is bent or which name is mentioned or ..., . Yet, the basics of society and how to treat your neighbor and brother are all there. WOW!

Sorry , SHHH! to myself, I should nto have yelled

 

[Andi]

Andi,

If Christians (* And other religions as well*) , would accept that others believe differently and allow that there is a difference and accept that. Then there would be less problems. If you could accept that the Muslims and the Jews believe differently and maybe just maybe received a different word from on high, the people could get along. I do not believe it is the only way, I believe it is the best way for Christians. Others may believen differently.

I tend to agree. I also wish that Christians could accept that others believe differently, and leave it at that. However, personally, I would not be able to reconcile my own faith with accepting Islam and Judaism as 100% correct (although I recognise the shared history) even if it was just "true for them". Neither would I expect the reverse.

I agree with you and your last sentence completely. I should cut off a thief's hand. I should not eat meat on Friday. I should not work on the Sabbath (* Friday Sunset to Saturday Sunset *). I should stone those who have sex out side of marriage. All or nothing. We should not eat pork.

Let us take it even furhter though shall not kill is one of the big ten.

Not eating of animals at all. You are killing or causing something to be killed for you. Then only being a vegitarian is correct.

I do not know of any one religion or church or holy person (Male or female) who follows the complete book of the Bible. And as everyone insists it is either 100% or nothing then, I choose to live my life my way.

I am not trying to be difficult here, yet there are things in the Bible that are forbidden that pious people do today. Just read and think. Listen to others even if you do not believe what they say, if you truly listen then you may at least begiin to understand where they are coming from. And after that you or anyone else might just begin to have tolerance and love for thy brother.

Peace and Respect keep you point of view coming. It helps me learn.
:asian:

Hehehe, Touche! Yes, I left myself open for that. If you like I can go into why I think those particular rules no longer apply. I don't think you're being difficult.
And I don't know anybody that follows the principles of the Bible perfectly either. So yeah, I see your point. If everybody claims their way is right, but their actions say the opposite, why believe them? Gandhi once said (apparently) something along the lines of "if it wasn't for the Christians I would have become one."

Secondly, I think a lot of Christians forget that their religions founder superceded the traditional ten commandments with two more all-encompassing behavioural principles.

1) "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your strength and with all your soul and with all your mind".

2) "Love your neighbour as yourself".

If only.
Cheers mate.

 

[Andi]

SHHHH! you do not want to start any wars, about how we have things in common, in the big ways of life, and only the little semantics of which knee is bent or which name is mentioned or ..., . Yet, the basics of society and how to treat your neighbor and brother are all there. WOW!

Sorry , SHHH! to myself, I should nto have yelled

Hehehe, hey you guys didn't bow your heads enough to pray! I'm gonna kick all your asses...

 

[Rich Parsons]

I tend to agree. I also wish that Christians could accept that others believe differently, and leave it at that. However, personally, I would not be able to reconcile my own faith with accepting Islam and Judaism as 100% correct (although I recognise the shared history) even if it was just "true for them". Neither would I expect the reverse.





Hehehe, Touche! Yes, I left myself open for that. If you like I can go into why I think those particular rules no longer apply. I don't think you're being difficult.
And I don't know anybody that follows the principles of the Bible perfectly either. So yeah, I see your point. If everybody claims their way is right, but their actions say the opposite, why believe them? Gandhi once said (apparently) something along the lines of "if it wasn't for the Christians I would have become one."

Secondly, I think a lot of Christians forget that their religions founder superceded the traditional ten commandments with two more all-encompassing behavioural principles.

1) "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your strength and with all your soul and with all your mind".

2) "Love your neighbour as yourself".

If only.
Cheers mate.

Andi,

I would not expect that one would accept the other one 100%. I would expect them to be adult like and patient enough to allow others to believe differently and maybe just maybe learn from the other one. Not looking for one message or one religion, just looking for some understanding and tolerance.


(* As to your other message, Come and get some *)

:asian:

 

[Andi]

Andi,

I would not expect that one would accept the other one 100%. I would expect them to be adult like and patient enough to allow others to believe differently and maybe just maybe learn from the other one. Not looking for one message or one religion, just looking for some understanding and tolerance.

Yep, I agree. It'd be great. I find myself cringing at the ram it down people's throats approach many people take to arguments (religious or not). Momentary consideration for other people's point of view? Nah, let's just jump in feet first all guns blazing.

Heheh. I'm pretty sure you guys could find some places I didn't know I could hurt.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Yep, I agree. It'd be great. I find myself cringing at the ram it down people's throats approach many people take to arguments (religious or not). Momentary consideration for other people's point of view? Nah, let's just jump in feet first all guns blazing.

Heheh. I'm pretty sure you guys could find some places I didn't know I could hurt.

You see, I would expect it to be mutual and you find places as well