This is a good point. Every strike or strategy doesn't require 100% power.
The misconception of sparring.
- Thread starter Mallic
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And wraps & tape!
isshinryuronin
Senior Master
I've used this tactic many times, but for punches I don't pull back, just stop it then continue. It works very well with kicks as well. I've scored many low front kicks this way. It's like a "stutter." By mixing it up with full punches or kicks, one can land them several times against an opponent. Very frustrating for them, satisfying for me.
Cool enjoy brain damage
Fungus
Black Belt
In kyokushin we often "trade punches" so most opponents are trained to not overreact when blocking (like kihon forms), the stratey is often that just reduce the power of the strike, rathre than completely avoid it (to avoid overreactions) so the version of the feint I have practiced and it works quite well is to first prime the opponent with strikes that hard enough that noone can just ignore them, and then as the response-pattern is established I break it by a punch in the air to make something else. Something that h high succes rate is, left overhand hook to chest/collar bone followed by a shita or tate tsuki to the body, very fast so I load the right hand while striking with the left. After beeing hit hard with one strike to collarbone area they start to react and then I feint with a left hook an inch off target and used that momentum for a good spinning back kikc to the liver, as their arm is trying to parryt my collar bone strike. This worked for me even on opponents with superior rank.
Fungus
Black Belt
Someone blocked a powerful right hook with a perfect elbow block half a year ago, and it hit my wrist at the nerves. Its fine now but it was painful for monts, although noting broken. I learned ALOT from that!
HighKick
Master Black Belt
Control, control, control. If this is not staunchly taught first, any sport can be very dangerous.
You can choose to live life in a bubble (ref: John Travolta), that is your choice, but sparring can be and should be safe and Fun for the average practitioner.
Of course, there is greater risk as you move into higher levels of circuit sparring. But that comes with a choice you make for yourself.
Who is saying this? I don't read every thread, but I don't recall anyone here claiming sparring is bad.
These goofy stances aren't goofy at all - they have a specific purpose and are extremely adapted to the need of a) surviving and b) come on top. And they did punch people to the head- they "just" needed to have great precision and timing, and use the appropriate technique - which is why BK fists are vertical on hit.
However, context is everything. Bare knuckle fighting back then had - as any prize fighting today - a money-making component. People took risks because they thought their life on balance would be better for it (and sometimes they were awfully wrong, but that's another matter), and the same goes on for any prize fighter today. It's a job.
Then there's who does it for glory, which is less rational but whatever, it may make sense as we are social and not by bread only doth man live and all that.
Obviously taking the same kind of risks just for sparring (or for thrills) is rationally idiotic. And just as obviously, you will always find someone who isn't stopped by that fact - either because they can't manage, or they are too stupid to see it. It's life (and natural selection).
It is possible to try to stop punching people in the head (notoriously in "traditional" karate competitions for example knocking out someone makes you lose)... but accidents happen. You can be as controlled as you want but if the other person puts his head in the way of your elbow at the wrong moment, no amount of control is possible - it's just too fast. That's why for example accidents are much more frequent at lower grades and with less skilled athletes, but can well happen also at the highest level if excitement gets a little too high.
It's the same thing as say motorbike or car racing - as safe you can try to make it, there is an inherent element of risk which is very, very much superior to simply not doing it at all.
If you use the right strategy, your opponent's 100% power or 50% power won't make any difference.
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Okay
That’s the key right there, control. I don’t think a lot of places teach control, I’m not sure if they know how.
To us, it was the first thing taught. Myself and a few of the other black belts, would spar with students the first few times they sparred. Fairly long segments, usually a half hour, the entire time coaching them verbally about how to control their strikes.
And always telling them “the more you can control your strikes, the more power you’ll learn to generate later on in training.”
I would never let two white belts spar each other for the first time they ever sparred. To me, that’s like letting a first day dental student do a root canal on your kid.
Fungus
Black Belt
We are taught that control is important, and if someone keeps failing in this the instructor will chime in.
To speak for myself if I don't have a sufficient control of a technique to be confident I can use it without accidently damaging my opponent, I will refrain from using it in sparring and stick to the basic techniques. I train them on the heavy bag until I have the control and precision to try them in sparring.
It took me quite some time to dare start use the upper chest/collarbone strikes in sparring, as they EASILY slip and hit the chin, but now I am getting more confident in getting curvature of the strike.
It also took me some time to get control of the height of my turning back kick (to make sure I do NOT hit the groin). I train the heavy bag until I could do it well enough.
windwalker099
2nd Black Belt
Occasionally, I have broken the arms of others during what were light sparing sessions.
When I say broken arm.
Talking about the "ulna" seldom on the "radius"
People I was working with reporting a sharp pain, dropping their arm after contact,
unable to continue the session...All unintentional...we stop..
They get x-rayed. Telling me later their outer forearm bone "ulna" has a clean break to the other side in it,
will take a while to heel up,
For me sparring is a must do....understood as part of a comprehensive training system, primarily focusing on distance, timing and positioning .
Not so much on issuing power...Other methods are used to test this..
In CMA there is a type of power or force referred to as 勁 (Jin) Refined force.
There many types and trainings used to develop specific types of "jin".
It's not the same as the type of force boxers use...although it could be used to describe what they do as such.
More then likely, boxers would refer their force as "knockout power" or " punching power"
For those practicing Japanese martial arts like karate, "kime" (決め) might be analogous to what we call 勁 (Jin) in Chinese martial arts. Could be wrong.
Hopefully, others more knowledgeable in those arts can correct or add to this.
When I say broken arm.
Talking about the "ulna" seldom on the "radius"
People I was working with reporting a sharp pain, dropping their arm after contact,
unable to continue the session...All unintentional...we stop..
They get x-rayed. Telling me later their outer forearm bone "ulna" has a clean break to the other side in it,
will take a while to heel up,
For me sparring is a must do....understood as part of a comprehensive training system, primarily focusing on distance, timing and positioning .
Not so much on issuing power...Other methods are used to test this..
In CMA there is a type of power or force referred to as 勁 (Jin) Refined force.
There many types and trainings used to develop specific types of "jin".
It's not the same as the type of force boxers use...although it could be used to describe what they do as such.
More then likely, boxers would refer their force as "knockout power" or " punching power"
For those practicing Japanese martial arts like karate, "kime" (決め) might be analogous to what we call 勁 (Jin) in Chinese martial arts. Could be wrong.
Hopefully, others more knowledgeable in those arts can correct or add to this.
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isshinryuronin
Senior Master
You are wrong but are not alone - many confuse the two. Jin would be more analogous to the Okinawan term, chinkuchi. Chinkuchi is concerned with delivering a strike's power to the opponent by locking your muscular/skeletal system and using biomechanics and breath. It's concerned with body structure at the moment of impact.
Kime or focus is a simpler concept concerned with stopping one's strike (with or without) power at a particular point along the line of attack. Most think it's pulling a punch before contact, but it can be used to control depth of penetration as well. There is some physical overlap between chinkuchi and kime, but the concepts are much different.
Kime is more distance oriented and chinkuchi is more power oriented. To put it simply (and a bit inaccurately) kime determines where chinkuchi is applied. (But you can have kime without chinkuchi as well.) I'll leave it at this and hope it's enough to differentiate the two well enough to give a general understanding.
This should never happen during light sparring unless you are using something that you shouldn't be using. Martial Arts techniques are not "Kind Techniques"
windwalker099
2nd Black Belt
lots of things shouldn't happen but they do..In each case an "unintentional" reaction "slapping" the others forearm..
Some may not have experienced nor trained in things like "burning hand" or "iron palm".
What looks like a light tap, can have more penetration that one would think.
Mike my first CMA teacher talking about his teacher Gorge Long,,,during a demo...
Should mention in my time also have been damaged during sparring matches.
kinda goes with the territory...
Even in "push hands" by a Sambo guy long ago..
"Sambo" guy, wanting to try push hands, tried and almost did take my knee out...
Lesson learned
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Wing Woo Gar
Senior Master
My thumb knuckle was wrecked by this exact thing. No glove, not that it would have mattered, my fist got under but my thumb was riding just a tad too proud on top and caught the elbow. It ruined my Valentine’s Day and took almost 18 months to fully rehab it.
Attachments
Makiwara is a great tool for refining form and alignment. If you can pound a proper makiwara with power you can hit a skull without hurting yourself in theory at least. The problem is hitting a target in motion with good alignment, and/or hitting with good alignment while your own body is in motion. Loosen the cords on a double end bag so that it'll dance wide around you and start hitting fast, shortcomings in targeting/hitting square on become apparent real quick. Tends to be an eye opener for a lot of people. Hitting a makiwara or heavy bag just doesn't show you what a double end bag can.
I think this type of punching was for the purpose of punching light body armor. The reason I say this is because the training for these punches is never thrown head height.
Now before the giggles come. This is the type of light armor I'm referring to.
Great for stabs and slashes but I bet one can still feel one of those deep power punches.
It may seem silly but but there is validity in this. Similar protection used by TKD getting penetrated by punch energy. Keep in mind. TKD uses padding. The armour above doesn't had that same padding in mind. Good for knives and slashes but a solid puch with a conditioned hand will still get through.
