The logic behind the placement of kihaps in Taegeuk forms

[Gnarlie]

I'm sitting here zooming-in on videos of Kukkiwon-style poomsae champions, and as much as I hate to admit it, Gnarlie has a point...if anything it looks like they open their mouth slightly to inhale on the chamber, and then exhale though the nose during the technique...exactly the opposite of how I do it. Dangit.

I would be interested to hear what your instructor's views are too.

I've been working this kind of breathing into my Taegeuk poomsae over the last two years (previously I just wasn't really considering breathing, I was just breathing regularly right through regardless of movement). It's a hard habit to build.

 

[TrueJim]

I haven't had a chance to ask my instructors yet (I didn't go to class last night and the night before - relatives in town), but among the videos I watched were some of my instructors, along with others from YouTube.

(One might be inclined to think, "Well that's just your instructors Jim..." but again...two former K-Tigers, both having won a lot of poomsae competitions.)

Here's an example, you can see our Dong-jin Kim opening his mouth slightly to inhale during the chamber as he comes up the stem, and then breathing out through his nose during the technique.

 

[IcemanSK]

Any thoughts on this @andyjeffries ?

 

[Drakanyst]

folks yelling "kihap" is the best. it's literal translation is " YELL ". grab that for some irony. although over here i've heard some hilarious kihaps that english speakers would never dare utter during a class.

 

[TrueJim]

I could be wrong, but I thought "ki" meant spiritual energy, and "hap" meant gather-and-focus (roughly). So the kihap is where you're gathering and focusing your energy. Also, I've read that the kihap isn't viewed as the cause of the focusing, it's viewed as the result of the focusing.

 

[Gnarlie]

I could be wrong, but I thought "ki" meant spiritual energy, and "hap" meant gather-and-focus (roughly). So the kihap is where you're gathering and focusing your energy. Also, I've read that the kihap isn't viewed as the cause of the focusing, it's viewed as the result of the focusing.

Hap (합) can mean different things, but in the context of a Kihap (기합), it means summation, collection, conjunction, harmonisation, alignment or similar.

Gather and focus works for me!

As to what Ki is, that's open to a wide range of interpretation. It's the steam on your rice...

 

[Dirty Dog]

According to our Kwanjangnim, kihap is 'the noise you make to focus your mind and power.'

One of the difficulties with a language like Korean is that the built in assumptions don't match those of English speakers. Lots of things cannot be translated as words, so you're stuck trying to translate concepts. Always a difficult thing to do.

 

[Gnarlie]

There are also different types of kihap for different contexts and reasons.

The kihap I use in poomsae
The kihap I use in step sparring
The kihap I use at demonstrations before a technique to psych myself up and indicate readiness
The kihap I use at demonstrations on the technique
The kihap I use when reassuming a fighting stance post break
The kihap I use in relaxed sparring
The kihap I use in full contact competition

Are all different, with appropriate reasons why.

None of them are like this. This actually hurts me:

 

[TrueJim]

I was just looking for this video the other day! I wanted to show it to somebody. I had seen it about a year ago but couldn't remember where I found it.

Out of curiosity, does anybody know the story behind the performance? It exaggerates everything so broadly...why? Did her instructor believe this was correct, or did they exaggerate for a reason?

Here's why I wanted to show this video to somebody though: I think it's a great example of somebody doing their own "interpretation" of a standard form. Not that the interpretation is good, but it's so obviously an "interpretation" that it slaps you in the face with how interpretty it is. So when somebody says, "I don't understand what you mean by doing my own interpretation" you can show them this video and then...BAM..."Oh I get it." (Just don't interpret it like this.)

 

[IcemanSK]

There are also different types of kihap for different contexts and reasons.

The kihap I use in poomsae
The kihap I use in step sparring
The kihap I use at demonstrations before a technique to psych myself up and indicate readiness
The kihap I use at demonstrations on the technique
The kihap I use when reassuming a fighting stance post break
The kihap I use in relaxed sparring
The kihap I use in full contact competition

Are all different, with appropriate reasons why.

None of them are like this. This actually hurts me:

I've seen MANY bad versions of Koryo in my time. This tops them all.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Makes me want to snack her instructor, for several reasons.


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Not TapaTalk. Really.

 

[TrueJim]

Makes me want to snack her instructor, for several reasons.

...yah exactly, that gets to my question....there must have been somebody coaching that your lady...why did the coach think that would be a good idea? Maybe it was a competition to see how much you could stylize a poomsae?

 

[Jaeimseu]

I've seen lots of interesting variations from people visiting Korea from other countries. I don't even bother correcting them if they're just training for the week. They are convinced that they learned it the "right" way.

 

[Gnarlie]

I've seen lots of interesting variations from people visiting Korea from other countries. I don't even bother correcting them if they're just training for the week. They are convinced that they learned it the "right" way.

I don't understand how people can get it so wrong in the age of the internet. Maybe they live and train in a cave.

 

[Jaeimseu]

I don't understand how people can get it so wrong in the age of the internet. Maybe they live and train in a cave.

I've even seen non-Koreans "correct" the Korean pronunciation of a Korean born instructor...priceless.

 

[Tez3]

I've even seen non-Koreans "correct" the Korean pronunciation of a Korean born instructor...priceless.

I know someone like that, she corrects all sorts of people who are experts in their field but she always knows better.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I've seen lots of interesting variations from people visiting Korea from other countries. I don't even bother correcting them if they're just training for the week. They are convinced that they learned it the "right" way.

I agree. There's no point in trying to correct a visitor. They're going to do it that way they were taught (or the way they think they were taught) and if they're visitors, it's not my place (or my problem) to correct them.
At the most, I might comment along the lines of "Interesting. We do that a little differently here."

 

[Jaeimseu]

I agree. There's no point in trying to correct a visitor. They're going to do it that way they were taught (or the way they think they were taught) and if they're visitors, it's not my place (or my problem) to correct them.
At the most, I might comment along the lines of "Interesting. We do that a little differently here."

I do wonder what they're thinking when everyone else in class is doing poomse the same way except for them. Are they going back to wherever home is and saying, "Those Koreans are doing it wrong"?

 

[IcemanSK]

...yah exactly, that gets to my question....there must have been somebody coaching that your lady...why did the coach think that would be a good idea? Maybe it was a competition to see how much you could stylize a poomsae?

The video mentions ATA in it. If she's an ATA person, she's not only taken a form she doesn't know, but made an attempt to make it look Okinawan with deep stances to make it palatable for an open tournament. Korean stylists don't generally do well in open tournaments.

 

[TrueJim]

I don't understand how people can get it so wrong in the age of the internet. Maybe they live and train in a cave.

...on the other hand, I mention to a lot of my fellow parents that they can watch the poomsae on YouTube to help their children with their homework, and the parents look at me like....What? YouTube has videos of this stuff???