The Existance of Chi

[Dronak]

It looks like I haven't posted in here yet, and forgive me if I don't go through all 8 pages first, but I'll comment a little. In _Taijiquan, Classical Yang Style_ by Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming, Chapter 2 covers the subject of qi and defining it. Parts talk about the more traditional definitions, about it being energy, and parts talk about a more modern definition. To quote one line from it, "It was not until the last few decades, when the Chinese people were more acquainted with electromagnetic science, that they began to recognize that this energy circulating in the body, which they called Qi, might be the same thing as what today's science calls 'bioelectricity'." Later on it goes into some anatomy and stuff to work on the modern definition. I guess my general feeling is that there is something there, some sort of energy you can call chi, and maybe you can define and describe it scientifically, but you don't really need to. Sometimes it's just easier to work with something as a general concept than to break it all down into its component parts to get a complete, scientific explanation of it.

 

[Patrick Skerry]

Do I think chi or ki is real? Yes I do.

Do I have any physical evidence or scientific proof? Nope, but neither do I for the existence of the mind, dreams, or the soul, yet I know they a priori do exist.

But I don't think the results of Kirlian (sp?) photography show the chi, and I do not believe ki are bolts of lighting shooting from one's fingertips.

So what do I believe to be chi? Chi or ki is when you open a padlock with the wrong key in an emergency; or know something is going to happen just before it does; or when a woman lifts a car off her trapped child; or when your much practiced waza is pulled off in tournament without thinking; or when attacked in an alley or on a lonely stretch of road, you suddenly use techniques only practiced in kata. Chi or ki is that feeling you have something else going for you besides brute strength or a gun, and it nags at you constantly. That is a sign of chi (or Ki), and like a high I.Q. or talent, not everybody has it.

 

[nlmantis]

This thread is very interesting and long, why not post another view? This is one a la "je pense donc je suis" --Descartes

assumption: one form of qi is the energy you feel flowing in your body(bioelectricity or some combination of energies from circulatory systems?).

I know qi exists because I experience it. There is no further thought required to proof this to myself.

I know I exist because I experience qi, because I experience dreams and because I have thoughts as these.

Since I exist I must have either been created somehow or have existed forever and evolved somehow. This is where the speculation starts.

Another speculation is that since I know I breathe and because my qi flow seems to strenghten/weaken with my breathing pattern intuitively I could deduce the two are somehow connected. I also feel that my body position, movement, muscle stifness and focus/concentration/thoughlessness have an effect on qi flow. Combining these components in various patterns results in various experiences in flow, strength and "form/feel".

None of this I can proof to you because all you really know are your own senses experienced inside, the rest is based on your assumptions and interpretations and beliefs. As far as you know I might not even exist, you might be a brain afloat somewhere...

Conclusion? I didn't really have one, however realize the internal arts deal with development from the inside out. Finding qi within and development to where you can take it. Don't believe anything you haven't found true for yourself so if you haven't experienced qi and don't believe in it then it doesn't exist for you. yet...

I know I will be experimenting along, having fun now and then experiencing one of the few things I know to be true. Call it chi, call it bioelectricity, call it good Kung Fu. What's in the name?

 

[7starmantis]

Good post. We have been talking about chi lately in my kung fu. About using chi to "fill up" your arm right before a hit or block to protect yourself and hurt your opponant. I can't really explain what I'm tlaking about, but there is most deffinitely a differance in down blocking a sidekick with your forearm between the two "styles" Just a simple block can hurt and handle the block, but you can add more "intent", "chi", "umph", whatever and it really hurts worse.
Whatever it is, its pretty usefull.

7sm

 

[lhommedieu]

One way to think of Qi is to think of the flow of Qi vis a vis anatomical structure. Re. the above post, a block with the arm that is structurally sound (i.e. linked to other anatomical structures in the body) be more effective than one that is (relatively) mechanically ineffective. This usually means that the bones in the arm are linked to other skeletal structures (e.g. the shoulder, spine, hips, legs, feet, etc.) while the muscular structure is kept relaxed. This is one aspect of the flow of Qi with respect to martial arts training; Qi cannot flow if the muscles are tight and cramped and the joints are out of relation to each other. One interesting effect of using your body this way is that effective techniques often feel "effortless." I think that this feeling is related to not feeling your body perform in a typical locked, tight pattern, and a great benefit to training in this manner is that it will gradually spill over into everyday movement as well. This is why it is said that some martial artists are "training" all the time: they practice mundane, everyday tasks like, e.g. raking leaves, opening car doors, lifting heavy objects around the house with the principles described above to make them second-nature. Ironic, isn't it, that that's the way nature intended it to be (just look at any animal move).

Best,

Steve Lamade

 

[Fumanchu]

lhommedieu,

If there is really something called chi, then I think what you describe sounds the most reasonable out of all the other posts.

However, another way to describe this is simply good body co-ordination. Examples - how does a internationally ranked tennis player serve at the speed they do? With our understanding of science today, we can do away with trying to describe things with chi.

 

[chi-ca]

I agree that you can credit the feelings of effortless action and strength to efficient form and the science behind the body's structure. However, I feel very confident in saying that there is more to qi than that. There is a hard to define quality that brings a sense of peace and makes you feel connected to something much bigger than yourself. I have members of my own family who are healers and I know that their abilities come from more that just proper form.

 

[Skankatron Ltd]

Do I think chi or ki is real? Yes I do.
But I don't think the results of Kirlian (sp?) photography show the chi, and I do not believe ki are bolts of lighting shooting from one's fingertips.

Do you know what kirlian photography is? It's simply a measure of skin conductivity. They put someone's finger on the lense or something and give it a light shock. The interesting part of it is the way in which the electricity exits, which is not out a single point, but in a sort of fan concordan with the theory that there is some sort of energy inherint in all, at least living, things.

Also, i am hearing a lot of people saying they don't beleive in anything so 'mystical'. You are assuming, and DEFINATELY wrongly, that science has reached an end. Look, assuming you go ONLY by science, you would conclude that the universe does not in fact exist and is composed of nothing BUT energy. These are the most advanced physics theories right now. Particles at the smallest level are said to behave like waves, which implies that they are not ACTUALLY solid (go ahead, try and tell me a light wave is solid).

I'm surprised no one has broughten auras up yet. Anyway the aura theory (i'll call it) says that there are somewhere from 6-12 planes of existence and that we have a body in each. The first one is dark and resides something like a quarter inch under the skin (i think). The second one is the physical body, then comes an ethereal coating that extends about a half inch past the outside of the body. Then comes the 'emotional aura', which is colored and extends up to a foot out from the body. There is then the 'mental body aura' which goes for several feet and i beleive is colored as well. the final aura around the body is the spiritual one and can't really be seen (yet); it extends for about a mile. I beleive that what the chinese refer to as chi is the very first of these. I know there are lots of you who think this is BS, and i completely understand, but I've experienced Chi first hand and on occasion have seen auras. It involves a different kind of seeing.

To give an example, I was sleeping and trying to exit my body (hang with me here, I'm not joking and i have exited my body numerous times) when suddenly i saw my entire room, which i might add was pitched black, in a green light. I would also like to add that my eyes were closed.

*Sigh* I can feel the angry remarks of criticism on what i've said already. Someday you, science, and everyone else will see I'm not far from the truth.

oh, and if you want info on kirlian photography, go here, http://kirlianresearch.com/

 

[dmax999]

Chi is real. Find a real Chi Gong teacher and seriously train with them for about 2 months and you will know it is real because you will feel it for yourself, guarnteed. All kidding aside this will answer your question without a doubt.

As to if it can be used to increase striking power, root yourself to the ground to not be moved or any other claim, I can't really answer.

 

[Skankatron Ltd]

I really give tai chi my all and was able to feel the chi in my body within a month, or thereabouts.