The distaste for strength in martial arts

[Kung Fu Wang]

I like some of the new electric cars coming out.

My son has 3 Telsa cars now. I believe the gasoline car will be just like the video tape. It will soon disappear from the face of the earth.

 

[Unkogami]

Have been knocked out or put to sleep then? When I say dead I'm being relative, not literally dead.

Wait, you've been literally dead???

Very close.

 

[SgtBarnes]

Early this morning I was training back & biceps. Just love preacher curls with a barbell. Also do reverse Ez bar curls for forearms.

 

[OLD DOG NEW TRICKS]

Hi. I am writing an article on the attitudes towards physical strength in martial arts, and would like to get your perspective on this issue (if it is an issue, I personally feel that it is) in martial arts, since you're all much more experienced than me. Every since I started training, I saw that there were many students and professors alike that seemed to have a sort of chip on their shoulders when it came to physical strength. I specifically noticed this in traditional martial arts; while my professors in Jiujitsu seemed to have an issue with strong people, my professors in more modern arts and combat sports seemed to lean towards it. This issue was most prevalent during my fleeting time in Shorinji Kempo, and it was one of the main reasons I quit.

People there seemed to have this sense of superiority towards me because I spend a lot of time working out at the gym and lifting weights, and many jokes and mockery and criticism by both students and senseis aside at people who spend their time training at the gym. Much of it came from the idea that using strength to fight was brutish and perhaps even a little uneducated or simply stupid. Although modern combat sports and martial arts tend to supplement (and in some cases even rely on) strength training for their techniques, this is not to say that they are bereft of such attitudes. I have come across one or two individuals that have this mentality of superiority in my BJJ gym too, and there is even the running joke amongst the online BJJ community where calling someone strong is an insult in a way, as they have no technique worthy of a compliment.

Personally however, I dislike this mentality a lot. I would even go as far as to argue that strength is a technique too - I wasn't born with my strength, and I worked a very long time to get to the level I am in terms of weightlifting today. If it just so happens that it helps me against my opponent, of course I'll use it. I think it is very important to incorporate strength training, whether traditional iron-body type stuff, or modern muscular hypertrophy and development. What are your thoughts on this?

Hello Ivan, first I want to say that is toughest Black Belt Bear that I could imagine. I fully agree with your assessment of the issue of attitude towards lifting and strength training. I have felt the prejudice for over 40 years of Martial arts training. I attribute this to an underlying Lack of self confidence with these people. More than likely they entered Martial arts training because of a great feeling of inadequacy. And are still fearful of larger stronger individuals even after they have obtained a high degree of efficiency in their chosen art. This is a mental weakness we just have to look past and hope they mature enough mentally to enjoy the Martial arts and not look down on others for bettering themselves. My experience is that strength will change the outcome of any actual fighting situation. This comes from hundreds of actual not fictional confrontations in real life from being in law enforcement, bouncing in inner city bars, and many other situations in my life. I hope this helps. Take care my friend and keep on lifting. Ron

 

[SgtBarnes]

a stronger athlete is a better athlete.

 

[drop bear]

Assume you can use your bear hug to squeeze everybody to death on this planet.

So then against weaker guys.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

So then against weaker guys.

If you are the strongest person on earth, everybody are all weak guys. That should be your goal.

At the age of 74, my teacher still had 45 inches chest (I measured it myself). I don't have his muscle at his age.

 

[drop bear]

If you are the strongest person on earth, everybody are all weak guys. That should be your goal.

Are you the strongest person on earth?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Are you the strongest person on earth?

That's my goal even if I will never reach it. I did train triathlon once. But my swimming speed could not meet the requirement.

Before my last Shuai Chiao tournament, I spent 3 months by moving a 200 lb rock daily. In that tournament, I competed in super heavy weight. I was 180 lb, my opponents were all over 220 lbs. I had no problem to handle all of them.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Are you the strongest person on earth?

You can probably beat the strongest person in the world. Their bodies aren't built for fighting.

 

[drop bear]

That's my goal even if I will never reach it. I did train triathlon once. But my swimming speed could not meet the requirement.

Before my last Shuai Chiao tournament, I spent 3 months by moving a 200 lb rock daily. In that tournament, I competed in super heavy weight. I was 180 lb, my opponents were all over 220 lbs. I had no problem to handle all of them.

See. Everyone in my environment is strong. That is basically a given.

So it is not the super poer it is supposed to be.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You can probably beat the strongest person in the world. Their bodies aren't built for fighting.

The key point is to use the strong part of your body to deal with the weak part of your opponent's body.

If you can put right hand on your opponent's forehead, put left hand behind his neck, by pressing his forehead back, you can take him down even if he may be the strongest person on earth.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

“The pitbull”. Right.

I really shoulda seen that coming, Steve.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If I had a plan to jump someone, I'd absolutely be doing some stretching and light warm up beforehand. If for nothing else than to relieve some boredom and tension.

I'm also probably not the normal attacker in these situations though.

I'm adding that to my danger cues to scan for. Some dude over by that corner, doing calesthenics? Get him before he gets me!

 

[voodoo820]

I know I'm late to the party on this but I thought I'd throw in my couple cents. I have zero problem with strength training to go along with any martial arts training. It's great to be strong in general and to be stronger than an opponent in combat if you find yourself in that situation is of great benefit. One of my earliest training partners and friends is a hulk and is as light on his feet as anyone I know.

There is something to the idea of sometimes stronger students making something work because they can muscle it. I've had students like this and you have to stay on them to not muscle their opponent but to use technique as if they weren't as strong. Of course, then the question comes, "If I can do it using strength, then why not do it that way?" The answer is, you may not always be as strong. Martial arts for me is a lifetime practice. Two of my mentors are now in their late 70s. They are not as strong as they once were but their technique is on point.

I guess I agree with others on this post. Build those muscles all you want, it's great, but when in your dojang, dojo, wherever, on your training mat, learn the technique as if you had no strength. It will only make you that much better.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Of course, then the question comes, "If I can do it using strength, then why not do it that way?" The answer is, you may not always be as strong.

This is where it helps to have a gym full of people who are working both technique and athleticism. That way the student with this attitude is likely to encounter both sparring partners who can match him for strength and sparring partners who can overcome his strength with technique. Competing outside the gym will also add to that probability.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Of course, then the question comes, "If I can do it using strength, then why not do it that way?" The answer is, you may not always be as strong. Martial arts for me is a lifetime practice. Two of my mentors are now in their late 70s. They are not as strong as they once were but their technique is on point.

I guess I agree with others on this post. Build those muscles all you want, it's great, but when in your dojang, dojo, wherever, on your training mat, learn the technique as if you had no strength. It will only make you that much better.

You may not always be as strong..today. I made this point before but anybody who's done maximal fitness tests before like Wingate knows what "Peak Power" is, and what "Anaerobic Fatigue" is and how it affects strength, quickly.

That's another point in the bucket for technique over strength. Strength is not a constant, it diminishes during any encounter (training, sparring, competing, fighting). And with age. And if I don't have my yogurt in the morning.

 

[Unkogami]

You may not always be as strong..today. I made this point before but anybody who's done maximal fitness tests before like Wingate knows what "Peak Power" is, and what "Anaerobic Fatigue" is and how it affects strength, quickly.

That's another point in the bucket for technique over strength. Strength is not a constant, it diminishes during any encounter (training, sparring, competing, fighting). And with age. And if I don't have my yogurt in the morning.

Speed is the first thing to do. Strength is the last.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

View attachment 28130

Never skip leg day...

No leg no punch.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I think the issue in telling someone to rely on technique rather than their strength, is in working to develop a higher quality in the technique. If technique quality is poor, you can still make it work if you put a lot of muscle into it. If technique quality is high it is more efficient and can be more effective even with less effort and less muscling of it. So when training, you want a student (and yourself) to focus on quality of technique, for better efficiency and better effect, with less effort.

But that is not meant as an indictment of strength or stamina or speed or whatever natural and athletic attributes one might have. When facing a real opponent, whether in the ring or on the street, in the chaos of combat, quality will diminish. Now is when athleticism becomes important, when the conflict is real.

So, of course athleticism in all of its parts is important. It goes together with technique, but it is important to give appropriate attention to technical development in order for optimal use of that athleticism.

Well said!