The Direction Of Ken(m)po

[MJS]

What direction are you taking your Kenpo in? Changes that you've made either to the way that you teach, the material that you teach, etc. What direction do you see Kenpo as a whole, going in?

 

[yorkshirelad]

Sub-level 5000......Mind Control!

 

[ATACX GYM]

Having said this a jillion times on KenpoTalk and here,I'll try to be brief(er) in this response:

I'm functionalizing every single aspect of my Kenpo by subjecting every single technique...EVERY SINGLE ONE...to requirements in ambidexterity,I put them in every primary range of self-defense which is: weapn range,standup,clinch (includes traps and checks),Standing-Seated (one party is standing,the other seated) Seated-Seated,Standing-Ground (Up-Down),Seated-Ground.Ground-Ground,Multifights Armed and Unarmed in all of these ranges,Escape from all of these,Rescue (innnocents,loved one,property,self)from all of these, and Rescue and Escape from all of these.I require First Aid and CPR certification at Blue Belt,along with the techniques.After a conversation with my Grandmaster,I began to require community service at brown belt and black belt (got the idea from THE ULTIMATE BLACK BELT TEST which was a article written in Black Belt magazine a few years ago).I want genuine martial artists who are as competent with forms and weapons as they are at fighting,people who are as energetic with community service as they are in knocking your block off,people whose quality of character and contributions to their communities shines even brighter than their keen combat skill.And doing that requires specific direction.We're a small school.Very small.But our positive impact on our community is out of all proportion to our numbers.

My Kenpo is also the base root from which I branch out and explore other arts and modify to fit our tastes.The modification is primarily in our training methods and technical application.I hold rank in tkd,tsd,hapkido,hung gar,shaolin chuan fa combat kempo,judo,am a MT and boxing coach,I'm a wrestler,a firearms certified specialist from RIO HONDO POLICE ACADEMY,I train iaido,knife and stickfighting (a blend of Kali,Zulu stickfighting, and my own experience all sauteed in "neighborhood scraptastic juice")savate,capoeira,and an assortment of other disciplines like bjj which I don't (yet) hold high rank in.All of these techniques are grafted onto my American Kenpo base...and NONE of them are contradictory.All flow together.My kenpo movements seem to be tailor made for kali,for instance.My capoeira dynamism makes everything flow together from CQB to forms,and adds an explosivity,a nonstop fluidity and the ability to strike with anything from anywhere and escape from anything and anywhere at a whim that is INVALUABLE.It can NOT be overstated how crucial this is.Capoeira is the King of Movement; there is no art in my experience that has movements remotely near its combative equal.And since combat capoeira is also a truely awesome sight but unfortunately incredibly rare? I have a very large advantage over the unsuspecting mortals who might make the mistake of harassing ya boi.My tkd,tsd,and gungfu training methods really make the difference and emphasize more aspects of the Chinese (and for me,Korean) influences in/on American Kenpo...especially in appreciating the power and importance of lovely thunderous kicks thrown in lighting combinations,the importance of rolls and jumps,and the absolutely insane insistence upon perfection of each and every aspect of movement and technical execution.This approach really allows you to deeply and immediately appreciate the value of say a well placed Tiger Claw ANYWHERE on the body.I have passed many a person's guard,mount,sidemount,floating knee,MT clinch,and disarmed many a person with a Tiger Claw,for example.My bareknuckle karate background,my bareknuckle Muay Thai and boxing REALLY add alot to my Kenpo arsenal...again due to the training methods.It also allows me to really appreciate and fine tune my Kenpo movements,especially the importance of what I call "the body whip" in each of Kenpo's movements.

So yeah.I'm looking to make my personal expression as complete as I can.I'm pursuing my black sash in Chinese wushu too,but I won't be able to pursue it the way I prefer until I get my deep purple or brown in bjj which should happen about this time next year (God willing).I frequently get ridiculed for pursuing my black sash in wushu by "hardcore" heads,but I just smh at them.They don't get it.And I see LOTS that wushu can add to my personal Kenpo expression.

No I don't call my Kenpo EPAK.My martial arts approach is the central theme to the practice of THE ATACX GYM.I expect my students and kids to take it and do as they will as they advance and better themselves.And that's that.

 

[marlon]

The direction I am taking my kempo is to give it a strong chinese base in terms of character. That is to say, a strong focus on structure, alignment, relaxation and awareness and sensitivity to ones own body and the opponents. "Kempo is taiji" one of the best quotes i have ever heard. All of this with the goal and training to develop functional fighters with the skill and ability to devastate an attacker or simply control them, and students who study the art... Myself included. Primarily a stand up art, standing includes, striking and chin na type actions, and throws. However, enough knowldege to deal with being on the ground, defending against taking downs and returning to the safer standing position (our culture is not one on one and rolling on the ground grappling in a street fight is asking to get cracked by a "bystander"), while finding locks and effective strikes and body mechanics to make those things count

mho goals
Marlon

 

[Thesemindz]

Train every day. Teach everything I know. Encourage myself and my students to be better and try harder.

I don't know where we're going. But that's the direction we're headed in.


-Rob

 

[ATACX GYM]

These posts are GOOD posts.Nice thread!

 

[Matt]

What direction are you taking your Kenpo in? Changes that you've made either to the way that you teach, the material that you teach, etc. What direction do you see Kenpo as a whole, going in?

I'm testing the outer limits of contact. Everything is against an actively resisting / countering opponent. Sundays are 'lump days'.

I am incorporating more boxing drills, thai pad drills, etc., and all sparring is done hard contact with UFC style gloves, mouthguards and a cup. Takedowns, ground, whatever.

 

[K831]

1.) Simplifying

2.) Aliveness

Kenpo IMO, has the best "mechanics" and "concepts" for movement. It is clean, crisp, precise, and teaches a Kenpo practitioner how to generate power in a short distance and cycle energy better than most other arts.

I think it is plagued, however, by having too much stuff. Too many techniques, forms etc. I mean, just bowing in to class is complex in most Kenpo schools. Too many belts, worrying about Gi's and patches, formality etc.

In short, I think it is the best system but often poor in terms of training methodology.

I am spending a lot of time right now with boxing, MT and Eskrima. All are more simplified than Kenpo in terms of learning the system. Eskrima techniques are actually very similar in approach to kenpo (footwork, angles, checks, striking patterns and targets, open hand strikes etc) but much more simplified.

Learning curves in martial arts are an interesting thing. The deapth of the art with a system like Kenpo, will often allow the practitioner to be far more devestating over a broad range of circumstances than, say, a boxer..... but maybe 5-10 years into training. However, I would but a boxer with 6 months to a year of training up against most Kenpo students who have say, 1-3 years time in. Why? That Kenpo student is plagued with focusing on number of memorized techniques, forms, sets etc, and depending on the school, he maybe spars a couple times a month. Technique line is most likely the most "alive" training he has seen. Whereas the boxer is working in a dynamic environment from day one. We had a new student sign up yesterday at my boxing/MT/Eskrima gym. Coach put him on the mitts within 30 minutes, working his jab IN CONJUNCTION with functionial footwork, in an alive manner. Most Kenpo students work their stuff in a technique line, where they know what is coming ahead of time, and the attacker doesn't move....and their footwork reflects that. Very poor in comparison.

Don't get me wrong, I love technique line, and there are some skills learned from hitting a real body in that situation that can't be replicated on the mitts, on the bag, or in sparring.... but kenpo seems stuck there.

In short, I am trying to simplify, let the concepts and mechanics of Kenpo govern my movement, but distance myself from the stifling structure of the system and train in a more alive manner. I am leaving some of the more complex movements (compound trapping etc) for simpler high percentage moves. Fortunately much of this was done when I changed associations, but having moved away from my original instructor has put me back to doing a lo of it myself.

Does that answer your Q's MJS? Kinda got into a rant.

 

[MJS]

Hmm...almost forgot about this thread. Great replies everyone!

As some others have said, the aliveness is a big part. Instead of just standing there, letting someone blast away at you, which is fine in the beginning, I encourage movement, counterstrikes/attacks, etc. IMO, thats the only way the student is going to grow.

Boxing and grappling skills: When it comes to punching and the ground, IMO, you gotta go to the arts that specialize in those areas. I'm not looking to become the next Tyson or Gracie or MMA superstar, but I do train in these areas, with people who can teach me the basics. I do add techs. from these 2, into my training. I'm certainly not afraid to drift from a Kenpo defense, and use something grappling or boxing based, although I do try to still keep it Kenpo.

Weapons: I tend to borrow heavily from the FMAs for my weapons training.

Sparring: The majority of my sparring/fighting, is more boxing/MMA oriented.

What direction do I see the art going in? Some people think that its fine the way it is, and thats fine, thats their opinion. IMO, I think that if it doesnt change/adapt with the times, it'll stay stagnant and die. Fortunately, there are people out there, who do adapt, change, and help the art grow. IMO, its people like that, that'll ensure that the art lives on.

 

[Flying Crane]

1.)
Kenpo IMO, has the best "mechanics" and "concepts" for movement. It is clean, crisp, precise, and teaches a Kenpo practitioner how to generate power in a short distance and cycle energy better than most other arts.

I agree with a lot of what you've said in this post.

I would be interested in seeing you elaborate on the above, however.

 

[K831]

I agree with a lot of what you've said in this post.

I would be interested in seeing you elaborate on the above, however.

Well, it's kind of a big topic, but I'll do my best to at least give some examples to demonstrate and clarify what I mean. Also, I must clarify that my comments, including the above, are in relation to my experience with American Kenpo, specifically.

I think the real brilliance in Mr. Parker was his ability to break down movement into a series of very small parts, define them, categorize them and organize them - assigning each of them to a conceptual component. Having everything linked to a concept that a student understands facilitates future learning more rapidly, but that is another discussion.


I had some ability to punch and kick when I started American Kenpo, however, I had never been exposed to such a proficient way of breaking the movement down. I knew using my body and not just my arm or shoulder was important. Hips were important, driving from the legs etc… but I didn’t think about it much more critically than that.


Considering the following examples;



American Kenpo breaks down the mechanics used in generating power into very INCREMENTAL aspects. Breaking them down as such allows a student to evaluate their motion and mechanics at a level far higher than their actual skill.


The three dimensions of body movement


1. 1.) Depth 2.) Height 3.)Width


Primary power sources
1. Forward momentum (depth) 2.) vertical drop (height) 3.) Body rotation (width)

Directional Harmony – This refers to the synergistic effects of moving the three dimensions of the body, primary powers sources and secondary power sources (mass, speed, body alignment, torque, reciprocation, contour, marriage of gravity, opposing forces, borrowed force etc etc…) in a unified and synchronized way to achieve maximum efficiency and force.


Dimensional sequence of muscle movement – refers to employing the 3 dimensions of the body/limbs in a certain order to obtain maximum results. The proper order of employment is as follows; depth first, height second and width last. Understanding this sequencing allows even a beginning student to recognize correct or incorrect striking mechanics.
This breakdown becomes more nuanced and incremental, for example, change in the body dimension of “height” is explored as vertical drop and then marriage of gravity. Understand the force generated from marriage of gravity helps the student analytically understand effectively employing kicks and punched in combination.



Concepts such as “Anchoring” are used to teach a student that positioning a portion of the body at a lower locale can enhance power and stability. Anchoring the hips and buttocks transfers greater strength to the legs when throwing, bracing etc, anchoring the elbow adds strength to blocks, checks and certain strikes.

Hand basics are categorized typically into 3 sections referred to as “Methods of Execution”; 1.) Thrusting 2.) Hammering 4.) Whipping.



From there, concepts that clarify each are learned, for example;
1.
Point of origin – The beginning, root, or source of any movement. The natural position or location of your body and natural weapon at the time the action begins.



2. Point of reference - The point of origin of a specific natural weapon, move, or technique sequence that one can refer to before proceeding to the next comparative stage.
Looking at all strikes from their point of origin, and successive strikes/checks/parries etc from their point of reference allows a student to recognize that thrusting is identified by a weapon (fist or palm-heel for example) has a point of origin close to or up against the body, and is extended in such a way that DEAPTH is utilized more than height or width. Hammering, on the other hand, generally originates or has a point of origin above the body and/or target and employs the dimension of HEIGHT more than width. Most hammering motions begin with the hand positioned by the ear on the same side of the body. Whipping, on the other hand, has a point of origin where the weapon is positioned across the body in a retraced position. Whipping methods employ more WIDTH dimension than height. (think outward handsword or some versions of the back-knuckle).



From any given position in a fight, a student can look at a technique or action and evaluate its validity and appropriateness by first evaluating its use of dimensions in the most effective way (depth, height and width) second by evaluating its use of primary power sources (forward momentum, vertical drop and body rotation) and then by secondary power sources (contour, torque, anchoring, reciprocation, opposing forces etc).



Breaking down motion and mechanics in such a way helps develop the clean, precise motion and helps generate power over a much shorter distance than would otherwise be possible. It also begins leading the student into appropriately cycling energy.



Now, compare this to boxing or Muay Thai. Recently we pulled out the uppercut bags and we had a few guys working them. One of the guys was having a hard time really snapping his lead hand uppercut (left) because his mechanics and his motion were off. After watching him struggle, and the other guys try to help him, I stepped in and used Kenpo terminology to help him conceptualize a proper uppercut vs what he was doing.



In brief;


His POINT OF ORIGIN of is natural weapon (left fist) was wrong for two reasons. 1. When slipping the opponents cross (right) he needed to use the angle and change in height (from his slight pivot and slip) to generate power. Second, he was dropping that left low to gain power for the uppercut. A common mistake when throwing uppercuts, especially in boxing. Point of origin of the hand (not dropping it) anchoring (of his hips to drive the uppercut from his legs) width (at which point to rotate the hips and lead leg) and height (bending at the knees to generate power, not dropping the hand/ angle change from the slip) and he began to CONCEPTUALIZE a proper uppercut in a way he hadn’t before, because the incremental aspects of the punch were broken down and linked to their respective concepts.



You can do the same with any basic move. Consider a Thai round kick… in a proper round kick, you will see depth, height and width come into play, as well as point of origin and point of reference and secondary power sources like anchoring and reciprocation. When does the body pivot (width)? How about when the hips “turn over” (depth, width and a change in height as the turning of the hips cause a downward motion in the kick). Where is the knee of the striker in relation to the opponent (past, or through him typically) which is point of reference and depth.



Any boxing combination (or any from any art) can be evaluated for its directional harmony, economy of motion and whether or not the point of origin of each successive strike is logical and economical based on the previous point of origin/reference etc….
Many arts use a similar sequencing or striking pattern to American Kenpo. Kajukembo for example is very similar. However, I have sat and watched Kaju practitioners do techniques that were great in terms of sequencing, but terrible because the above principles were violated. Often the technique at its inception was organized in such a way as to maximize certain principles like marriage of gravity or opposing forces. But, since those principles were not utilized, the technique lost much efficacy because it was organized to utilize those exact principles, and they were not being utilized.



I have been in many seminars with other stylists who had a great technique but couldn’t really make it work, whereas I just dumped the uke without hardly trying because I employed the principles that were naturally there.



It isn’t that only American Kenpo has any of these, it’s that, in my experience, only American Kenpo has categorized them in such a way, and only American Kenpo places such a high priority on them.


Many arts seem to have gotten sloppy, because they focus on the actions and sequencing, without looking closely at the incremental components of mechanics.
The mechanics , motion, principles of Kenpo allow me to do that, regardless of the art, and that is why I say I let those principles govern everything else I do, be it Escrima, Krav, Boxing, Muay Thai etc….


I hope that helps.

 

[marlon]

I'm testing the outer limits of contact. Everything is against an actively resisting / countering opponent. Sundays are 'lump days'.

I am incorporating more boxing drills, thai pad drills, etc., and all sparring is done hard contact with UFC style gloves, mouthguards and a cup. Takedowns, ground, whatever.

So, next time I come down, i'll make it a Sunday. I want my lumps!
Seriously, though, there are too few people out there willing to push the limits of contact as Matt says. I understand that I cannot send my emergency department MD, student back to work on Monday with busted teeth and black eyes...but protective equipment has its drawbacks, also...
Marlon

 

[Yondanchris]

I have been re-learning my previous SKK material in the light of new "filters" that have been forming through my American Kenpo training. I can certainly see beneficial changes that could be made in a mold of SKK and AK.

I am loving my training in AK and the new community of friends it has brought.

In the planning stages of hosting a AK seminar and a mini-tournament later this year.

Chris

 

[Wo Fat]

Having once trained in the "sweet science" of boxing, as well as training in Kajukenbo since the 80s (and now teaching), I agree alot with what K831 is saying.

There's probably no better way to comprehend the strengths and weaknesses of an art than by testing the legitimacy of each and every technique. Now ... like many, back in the day you didn't even hint that a technique might not be realistic. You defended against the proverbial straight right hand, and you performed all 8 or 10 steps of that particular punch defense. And that was that.

But the reality was/is that if we ever have to defend ourselves, it won't be against a well-mannered and compliant uke. It'll be some jerk who's 3 beers under, and lookin' to do some damage. Going forward, our Kenpo/Kempo/Kajukenbo teachers should strongly consider doing more with less. A little less formality and mysticism, and a little more boxing and jiu jitsu/judo and Muay Thai.

One major problem is that some of our best teachers--those who have a gift for really imparting knowledge--don't know much about boxing or jiu jitsu or Muay Thai, and they are often too proud to either learn those aspects of the arts as a beginner or go out and find someone who does.

When people have asked me for advice on Kenpo/Kempo/Kajukenbo schools, there's always one thing I include: when you visit any martial arts school, make sure that you see boxing gloves and heavy bags (and make sure they aren't dusty).

 

[K831]

Going forward, our Kenpo/Kempo/Kajukenbo teachers should strongly consider doing more with less.

In a nutshell!

 

[Flying Crane]

A little less formality and mysticism, and a little more boxing and jiu jitsu/judo and Muay Thai.

I gotta ask the obvious: if you feel more answers lie in JJ/J and MT, they why do kenpo at all?

 

[ATACX GYM]

I gotta ask the obvious: if you feel more answers lie in JJ/J and MT, they why do kenpo at all?

Second thought that came to my mind as well.

 

[MJS]

Well, I dont want to speak for him, but lets look at the rest of the post:

But the reality was/is that if we ever have to defend ourselves, it won't be against a well-mannered and compliant uke. It'll be some jerk who's 3 beers under, and lookin' to do some damage. Going forward, our Kenpo/Kempo/Kajukenbo teachers should strongly consider doing more with less. A little less formality and mysticism, and a little more boxing and jiu jitsu/judo and Muay Thai.

Now, reading this, I take it as:

1) Instead of using fancy lingo or terms, just get to the point.

2) Many times, when we're seeing the IP techniques, we see compliant people, standing there, while the other guy blasts away. I'd have to say that was why boxing, JJ and MT were mentioned. In boxing you dont see 1 guy standing and the other guy punching, you see 2 people, moving, throwing punches, in an alive fashion.

This, again, is simply my take on his post. I could be wrong with what I said, so we'll have to wait for him to reply.

 

[Flying Crane]

Well, I dont want to speak for him, but lets look at the rest of the post:



Now, reading this, I take it as:

1) Instead of using fancy lingo or terms, just get to the point.

2) Many times, when we're seeing the IP techniques, we see compliant people, standing there, while the other guy blasts away. I'd have to say that was why boxing, JJ and MT were mentioned. In boxing you dont see 1 guy standing and the other guy punching, you see 2 people, moving, throwing punches, in an alive fashion.

This, again, is simply my take on his post. I could be wrong with what I said, so we'll have to wait for him to reply.

sure, valid points and he has yet to respond or clarify.

I dunno. I just get a bit tired of people falling back on something else to (what seems to me anyway) "prop up" what they are doing in something else. Really, if you need to do something else to bring what you are already doing up to snuff, it just makes me think maybe for you, it would be better to just go do that other thing.

What I take from the JJ/J/MT/Boxing comment is: Kenpo lacks the ability to grapple, and we gotta have it, and kenpo lacks decent kicks, punches, elbows, and other strikes, and we need to improve those. So JJ/J. MT/ B are the answer to kenpo's problems. Sounds to me like anyone who feels this way ought to just go train in those other things and leave kenpo behind, because for them at least, kenpo doesn't work.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that decision. I made it myself. But if you practice a method, hopefully you have faith in it. If you don't have faith in it, if you feel something else is needed to fix it, then maybe you ought to re-examine what you are doing and why you are doing it, and just maybe, do something else that works better for you.

 

[K831]

1) Instead of using fancy lingo or terms, just get to the point.

Uh oh.. is this an indirect comment on one of my posts above? I HAD to use lingo in that post....had to!

What I take from the JJ/J/MT/Boxing comment is: Kenpo lacks the ability to grapple, and we gotta have it, and kenpo lacks decent kicks, punches, elbows, and other strikes, and we need to improve those. So JJ/J. MT/ B are the answer to kenpo's problems. Sounds to me like anyone who feels this way ought to just go train in those other things and leave kenpo behind, because for them at least, kenpo doesn't work.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that decision. I made it myself. But if you practice a method, hopefully you have faith in it. If you don't have faith in it, if you feel something else is needed to fix it, then maybe you ought to re-examine what you are doing and why you are doing it, and just maybe, do something else that works better for you.

That's an interesting way of looking at it, and I agree in some ways. Some thoughts if you don't mind;

1.) Kenpo has great kicks, punches, elbows, knees and joint locks/manipulation. I never felt they needed fixing. MT/Boxing etc are not an answer to any problems kenpo has as a system but rather, a different way of utilizing similar tools - and that is just fun to explore.

2.) Mechanically, technique, structurally, Kenpo does not give anything up to the arts mentioned. In fact, I often find it to be superior. However, I look to these other arts (and FMA and Krav for that matter) not for help in punching, kicking, elbowing or for contact manipulation, but rather, for training methodology in which case I do find they have some superior training methods. At which point, I use them to augment the training in my preferred art, Paul Mills flavor of American Kenpo.

3.) I believe one can simultaneously have faith in their art, but also place it under constant "evaluation" and re-examination. Part of that proccess can be (doesn't have to be) by getting out there and training with other guys and others arts some times. For one, we spar a lot at my kenpo school. That's great, I got really good at sparring kenpo guys.

4.) Training in other arts has certainly caused me to think "this is good, I'm glad I have this perspective now" but it has also in many ways caused me to think "wow, Kenpo is really good, and I'm glad it's my base."

5.) A last note, some of us move or for scheduling reasons can't train our base art as much as we would like. For someone like me, I would rather train in something new, but proven, rather than just take a training hiatus.