The definition of a McDojo!!

[rabbit]

"The typical progression of rank in TKD is white, yellow, green, blue, red, black. There are variations in there, especially when we're talking about different arts. But, when you start seeing camo, tie-dye, rainbow, or any other combination of colors, be wary."




LOL!!!

 

[terryl965]

"The typical progression of rank in TKD is white, yellow, green, blue, red, black. There are variations in there, especially when we're talking about different arts. But, when you start seeing camo, tie-dye, rainbow, or any other combination of colors, be wary."




LOL!!!

Come on the camo is one of the best kept secrets in all martial arts.

 

[mango.man]

"The typical progression of rank in TKD is white, yellow, green, blue, red, black. There are variations in there, especially when we're talking about different arts. But, when you start seeing camo, tie-dye, rainbow, or any other combination of colors, be wary."

LOL!!!

Our first school had a pink belt. It was not an official belt, just what students would have to wear if they forgot theirs at home or something. Unfortunately my daughter kinda liked it so she seemed to "forget" her belt more than she probably would have otherwise.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

"The typical progression of rank in TKD is white, yellow, green, blue, red, black. There are variations in there, especially when we're talking about different arts. But, when you start seeing camo, tie-dye, rainbow, or any other combination of colors, be wary."
LOL!!!

As a general rule, I agree with you, though this is another area where, if the instruction is good, does the rainbow, tie dye, or camo belt matter?

Some schools have a pre-gup belt progression for young kids (little ninjas, little dragons, tiny tigers, shrunken Shaolin, or whatever), and for such programs, I think that these belts are actually appropriate.

If unusual belts are a part of a regular program, I am generally more interesed in the reasons behind the color choice. Morbid curiosity, I know, but the the traditional colors in the belt progression were picked for a reason, so someone may have just as good a reason for an unusual belt color.

There is a thread by LaurenTKD about doboks and I feel the same way about belts as I stated about different styles and colors of doboks: the belt colors are part of training at that school. When in Rome, do as the Romans. I'm at my dojang for the training. I don't really care about the color selection of geub rank belts.

Daniel

 

[dancingalone]

When in Rome, do as the Romans. I'm at my dojang for the training. I don't really care about the color selection of geub rank belts.
Daniel

Well of course the belt colors don't matter in the big picture, but I think it's indicative of the slant the school has. I know an instructor that uses white, green, blue, purple, brown, and then black. Not really that many colors, and the difficulty of the curriculum is telling. It's not unusual for a student to stay at a color for over a year in his school even when they attend and practice regularly. Contrast that to schools with lots of belts that promote every 2 months.

Camoflauge belt = commercial school.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Well of course the belt colors don't matter in the big picture, but I think it's indicative of the slant the school has. I know an instructor that uses white, green, blue, purple, brown, and then black. Not really that many colors, and the difficulty of the curriculum is telling. It's not unusual for a student to stay at a color for over a year in his school even when they attend and practice regularly. Contrast that to schools with lots of belts that promote every 2 months.

Camoflauge belt = commercial school.

Pretty much. If the commercial school offers outstanding instruction, then I'm alright with it being a commercial school. Unfortunately, most such schools do not have outstanding instruction.

Though regarding camoglauge, more specifically, camoflauge belt = ATA school, as they're the only org I know of that uses it and are the ones who thought it up so far as I know.

Daniel

 

[dancingalone]

Though regarding camoglauge, more specifically, camoflauge belt = ATA school, as they're the only org I know of that uses it and are the ones who thought it up so far as I know.

Daniel

Well, I wasn't going to name any names. For the record, I think the ATA is perfect if you want to send your little tyke (< 10) to a 'ka-ruddy' class to have some fun and work off some steam.

I won't use them with my child because I don't want him to form his impression of what martial arts is through their perspective. I obviously prefer my own outlook. At the same time, I cannot in conscience dilute my curriculum just to be able to show him some things. He will be welcome to visit my dojo as a watcher, assuming he can behave and keep quiet, until he is about 13-14. At that time, he may have the privilege of joining the class with the understanding that it is indeed a privilege and one that he must continue to earn.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Well, I don't mind naming names for something that is factual and unbiased. The ATA is the only org that uses that belt and they came up with it. Not a dig at the org; just giving them credit (?) where it is due, lol.

I've never been to an ATA school, so I cannot comment on the curriculum, though I suspect that like any other org, the quality of instruction varries from school to school with some being lousy and some being outstanding.

Daniel

 

[CDKJudoka]

We use camo belts for our Little Dragons programme. Gup ranks with us are White, Yellow, Green, Purple, Red, Brown, and then Black. On average it take a student who goes to class religiously (3 or more classes a week) 2 years to get to brown and another 2-3 years from brown to black.

 

[rabbit]

There is nothing wrong with camo belt, but tie dye and rainbow is absurd. How many people want a rainbow belt?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

There is nothing wrong with camo belt, but tie dye and rainbow is absurd. How many people want a rainbow belt?

One of our students has a six year old daugher in the kids class and she'd love a rainbow belt.

Daniel

 

[sadantkd]

I may be totally off on this because I can't see the video anymore. This is obviously an old thread, but is it possible the kid in the video was learning disabled? I have a student who will never be able to understand the true meaning behind technique and be able to apply it properly. For him, just learning the motions is a great accomplishment. He has worked every bit as "hard" to earn his belt as anyone else. And the confidence he's gained through taekwondo training would be completely negated, and possible worse if we didn't allow him to progress. Obviously, he's not going to instruct any classes, and he hasn't progressed as far or as fast as the rest of his family, but I certainly don't think we're doing anything wrong here.

Again, I didn't see the video, and it is ATA (I call it Karate for Kids by Kids). I just wanted to bring up this issue.

 

[terryl965]

I may be totally off on this because I can't see the video anymore. This is obviously an old thread, but is it possible the kid in the video was learning disabled? I have a student who will never be able to understand the true meaning behind technique and be able to apply it properly. For him, just learning the motions is a great accomplishment. He has worked every bit as "hard" to earn his belt as anyone else. And the confidence he's gained through taekwondo training would be completely negated, and possible worse if we didn't allow him to progress. Obviously, he's not going to instruct any classes, and he hasn't progressed as far or as fast as the rest of his family, but I certainly don't think we're doing anything wrong here.

Again, I didn't see the video, and it is ATA (I call it Karate for Kids by Kids). I just wanted to bring up this issue.

Great point we have some challehde childern as well and we have a totally different program for them. It is in place so they can have some type of recognition for what they have achieved.

 

[sadantkd]

Thank you. This is a great point and something I've been really frustrated with reading all this. I guess my school exactly the "mcdojang" you've just described because after slaving away for years at a so-called real school where I didn't make enough money to pay my personal expenses, I now have a family to support. I worked hard for my rank, and will not allow my students to do anything less, but I am implementing a business model that will finally allow me and any of my students that choose this as their livelyhood to be well compensated for the years of dedication it takes to be a professional instructor.

 

[sadantkd]

I couldn't disagree more strongly. I look at my job as an instructor kind of like a pastor of a church. I think it would be arrogant to turn students away because their attitude may not be perfect or whatever. After all, I believe Taekwondo can change and save a person's life. I want everybody to have the chance to experience all this incredible lifestyle has to offer. At the same time, I have a level of love and respect for my lifestyle that I'm not gonna cheapen it by selling out with regards to promotions. I guess what I'm trying to say here, is that I will use every marketing tool and retention tool available to make sure my school is full, but I will never promote somebody to a rank they haven't earned.

 

[sadantkd]

There are quite a few people who would love the rainbow belt. In the DC area, they all tend to hang out at Dupont Circle.

 

[dancingalone]

I couldn't disagree more strongly. I look at my job as an instructor kind of like a pastor of a church. I think it would be arrogant to turn students away because their attitude may not be perfect or whatever. After all, I believe Taekwondo can change and save a person's life. I want everybody to have the chance to experience all this incredible lifestyle has to offer.

And therein lies the difference. I don't regard MA training as something for everyone. I teach it as a FIGHTING art. It's expected that you will shed blood occasionally in my dojo if not frequently. I don't usually accept students under 18, and I actually try to prescreen prospective students ahead of time for maturity and PHYSICAL and mental aptitude. I tell people if they're looking to get in shape, go join a gym. If they're looking for sports competition, play some tennis. If they wish to learn self-defense (and really self-defense is an attribute of learning how to FIGHT, i.e. hurt, maim, or kill another human being), I MAY be able to help them but only if it is a good fit for both them and me.

It's no coincidence that I have few students, and I don't try to make a living through teaching martial arts. In this, I follow my own teacher who taught and still teaches in similar fashion.

By the way, I did view the original video when it was up. The boy was not handicapped in any way. He's just the product of a soft form of pedagogy more designed to build (false) self-esteem and make money than teach legitimate martial skills with any degree of rigor.

 

[ATC]

I tend to think that most schools are McDojo's or whatever you want to call them. However this is due to multiple reasons and even with that being the case the serious students will get quality training.

Most schools need to make money to stay open. Most people are not that serious about becoming the next great fighter. In reality how many people fight these days?

With the above being the case the school can only teach so many so much and have it be quality. However the instructors do see the serious and those students become the so called "Favorites" and get the extra attention. Have access to the studio to train on off hours and get to train with the instructors. They even get the benefits of any fund raisers. They often may not even have to pay the same prices of the other students or even get freebies many times.

Everyone gets out of it what they put in and the instructors see who puts in the time and effort and they get back for that.

At least this is what I see in our school. So unless you teach part time out of your garage and are trying to make a living out of your school...You may be a McDojo, McDojang too.

 

[matt.m]

I always tell people to fight the man not the belt. Our training uniforms look horrible. I mean they are all in one piece and good but not something you would go out of the school in for public appearance. Geez my judo uniform resembles a well used rag. A really sturdy rag. We wear our "Junky looking" belts.

I don't know, our TKD class has on average 14 people on the mat training. Our little space barely accomodates that many on the mat at once. More than 8 for judo is a crunch and it is always our 3-4 in hapkido.

We do have a very family friendly environment, but the discipline needed is instilled. The kids rank at about a belt a year, maybe a little less but at least 10 months in between. We do keep them together in a group even if they have to test 2x. No one expects rank. I don't know, I have seen schools promote someone to the next grade every 16 weeks. Full rank, not stripe. I have a student who never misses class, wins and competes often and is working towards brown 3rd test in june. White, yellow, green. brown 3, brown 2, brown 1, black system. He has been my student for 2 years.

My theory is this: If you make the class good and challenging then your students will not care about rank. They will care about learning.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I don't regard MA training as something for everyone. I teach it as a FIGHTING art.

Why must the two be mutually exclusive?

I think that everyone can benefit from the martial arts. If for no other reason than this: there was a time when students would have schoolyard scrapes and such and by the time we all got out of high school, we all has a pretty good idea of what it was like to be in a fight. When real trouble came our way, we knew what real trouble was. We knew what it mean to hit and be hit.

Now, our lives are kept so sanitary that the divide between the average citizen and the street tough is so great that the average person is pretty much defenseless in every conceivable way.

Not to mention how the world of the average US citizen has become less and less physical.

We need to be moing, training, and keeping fit, and we need to be able to handle ourselves on a rudimentary level. Martial arts kills all of these birds with one stone so to speak.

Where I run into a problem is with unearned rank. A person who is handed a black belt but cannot proficiently fight in the style is like a high school graduate who cannot read.

Daniel