The cost of Ego, disrespect, and the failure of teachers and students.

[Anarax]

Rashun is the name of the "Instructor" in the video beating on Waldo and he's commented on the video uploaded on multiple YouTube channels. His comment is down below.

"Great video analysis! Firstly, I’m not particularly proud of what went on That day. But it was a raw slice of life and for better or worse a teachable moment the young man was not my student.He is 34 years old I’m told.He Came into my with a former student saying he was there to learn. But soon after he got there I sensed he had other intentions. I started to give him some pointers on stance and footwork but he insisted that his way was better, so I tried to introduce him to a drill I developed called the Lao sao drill. But he found it difficult to pull off, got frustrated and yelled ‘I had a bad week, I’m not here for all of this, I thought we were going to meditate?’ so I had one of my students work with him on Sui Lim Tao to calm him down.but my student said ‘waldo’ wasn’t interested in learning it. so he left ‘Waldo’ alone to come train with us. While the rest of us worked on drills I noticed ‘waldo’ punching on my heavy bag and playing around on my wooden dummy.but I was busy working on drills so it didn’t really bother me.Then he sat down and may have taken a nap.I’m not sure.but he was in my for over 90 minutes before the video started. By then he saw me run drills till I was exhausted and drenched in sweat. it was at this time it all culminated . I intentionally kept my gloves on in case things went south he would be somewhat protected. But When he touched my face I reacted.struck him immediately, closed the gap to initiate a quick takedown and a few gloved punches, not to hurt him too bad. Yes, I did grab his elbow to help him up.but I sensed he was going to try and hit me so I controlled his elbows and shoved him before he could. When He got up he did try to kick me, but I saw his arm move indicating the kick he was about to throw, and I ducked and used a rising fat sao to unbalance him. As he fell I gave him another gloved punch For good measure. Yes I’m a martial artist, I’m also a 52 year old grandfather From Brooklyn where things got handled very differently than things do today. Should I have handled this better? Probably. Could I have handled this better? I’d like to think so. But we never really know until we’re in that moment. And the moment that young man touched my face….I found out. And that’s one for me to grow on… He did call the police to have me arrested but he didn’t know I had footage of the entire event. The police,detectives and investigators watched the video and said it was clear as day that he was the aggressor. In fact the final police report says It was a battery case “Suspect pushed his head against the victims head. Victim retaliated by punching him, suspect kicked out.” They asked if I wanted to Press charges against him. I declined. they were going to mark it as mutual combat but after the investigation the police report lists me as the victim of a battery. Go figure ? There are a lot of great teachers, masters,and instructors who have had some unflattering moments that are still great at what the do. we are still human beings, always learning and growing. "

Personally I'm not seeing him going easy on Waldo, it appears he's trying to hit him in the face and he does several times. It looked like Rashun didn't know ground and pound positioning and it was the lack of knowledge to do so effectively is what prevented him from inflicting serious injuries on Waldo, not him choosing to restrain himself.

Both are wrong and there's plenty of blame to go around. Rashun was the instructor and escalated most of the situation. Waldo did drive his head forward into Rashun's face and that was the line where it became physical. However, that was after Rashun got in his face, put his finger inches away from his face, started shouting and starting dropping racial slurs. I wouldn't want to train with either of them. Rashun's video will just become another compilation on a "TMA Gone Wrong" video, hopefully with a more creative title.

 

[Anarax]

You're right. My apologies lol. They didn't even rise to that standard. How many years had the Wing Chun Instructor train? Just think. All that time spent training and that's all he had to show.

It would have been better if the Wing Chun Instructor would have kicked that JKD guy just to show him that the kicks couldn't be stopped. Knock the wind out of or something representative of the EGOS on display.

Thank you, just wanted to give a little insight into kickboxing lol. Yeah, the video TSDTexan posted covers Rashun's background, the instructor in the video. IMO, it's more disappointing given his experience.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I tried to introduce him to a drill I developed called the Lao sao drill. But he found it difficult to pull off, got frustrated and yelled ‘I had a bad week, I’m not here for all of this, I thought we were going to meditate?’ so I had one of my students work with him on Sui Lim Tao to calm him down.but my student said ‘waldo’ wasn’t interested in learning it. so he left ‘Waldo’ alone to come train with us. While the rest of us worked on drills I noticed ‘waldo’ punching on my heavy bag and playing around on my wooden dummy.

I've seen this happen once in my life. Almost the same pattern. This is where I would have corrected the behavior. People can either watch or participate in training. They don't get play around on equipment while everyone one else is training. This is how it is in everything that I know especially sports. I don't know of any coaches that would tolerate that on a high school level. I think a lot of drama could have been cut off at this point. By politely stating the rule. "You can either participate or watch" then explain that it's not personal but the rules of the school and students and guest must follow those rules. If he doesn't want to follow those rules then politely ask him to leave. Because it's on private property, he has 2 options for leaving.
Option 1: Leave on his own.
Option 2: Be forced to leave (either by butt kicking or by police) Either way works for me

This is #1 to me before my EGO. Especially if it's at my home. At that point it's not even about Martial Arts anymore.

I intentionally kept my gloves on in case things went south he would be somewhat protected.

I don't know about this. Saying MMA Gloves offers protection for your opponent is like saying a lightly padded brick offers protection. It's like the difference between getting scratched by a brick and not being scratched by one. I have concern about the safety of the people that I spar and train with. People that I fight with in situations like this don't get that benefit. In situations like this I try to shut my feelings and concern off, just for the purpose of being able to do horrible things.

But When he touched my face I reacted.struck him immediately, closed the gap to initiate a quick takedown and a few gloved punches, not to hurt him too bad.

Again. If he didn't want to hurt the guy then why get into a fight? If I get into a fight then I understand by default that I'm going to hurt someone or that person may hurt me.

And the moment that young man touched my face

If I don't want someone to be up in my face, then I make sure I don't get in their face. That defeats the who purpose of me not liking someone all up in my grill trying to punk me. The other reason is from a self-defense perspective. I want to be close enough to close the gap if needed and far enough to escape if I needed. Technically striking and grappling distance should be a few steps away. If you can engage in grappling or striking without moving in, then you are probably too close.

But we never really know until we’re in that moment.

What's that quote about know yourself and know your enemy. If a person doesn't know what they would do then there's a problem. You are in denial about something. Would he have reacted the same way if Mike Tyson touched his face? If not, then "face touching" isn't some uncontrollable reaction. People can talk all the Martial Arts super reaction speed, cat instincts, that happened without me knowing. Yeah. I don't believe that. Even a spider will read the situation before it takes on it's prey. I literally watched a spider decide between 2 meals. An ant that moved like it was wounded and an ant that looked healthy. It saw both, moved towards the healthy ant and then changed it's mind and attacked the wounded ant. I understand the comment of "letting instincts move you." but it's not as clear cut as that.

He did call the police to have me arrested but he didn’t know I had footage of the entire event. The police,detectives and investigators watched the video and said it was clear as day that he was the aggressor. In fact the final police report says It was a battery case “Suspect pushed his head against the victims head. Victim retaliated by punching him, suspect kicked out.”

We talked about this soooo many times in here. Always make sure you have a camera catching what's going on. It keeps the story honest. Plus Waldo went to someone's else's house and caused the ruckas.

they were going to mark it as mutual combat but after the investigation the police report lists me as the victim of a battery. Go figure ?

That's the Ego there.. Can't have it both ways.

Personally I'm not seeing him going easy on Waldo, it appears he's trying to hit him in the face and he does several times. It looked like Rashun didn't know ground and pound positioning and it was the lack of knowledge to do so effectively is what prevented him from inflicting serious injuries on Waldo, not him choosing to restrain himself.

This is how I see it as well. There is a difference between going easy and not being able to inflict effective damaged. I've sparred with people who had such a heavy hit that the thought of them hitting me with the intent to harm was not something I was excited about dealing with. Some people have that type of punching power or grip strength where you know without a doubt that they can do much more. Some people can punch or grip you and you know right away that there's not punch beyond that if a fight broke out.

Land a body shot like that, let that person feel the heaviness of the punch and it's done. Mike tyson can hit you 20% and all of your scenarios questions would be answered lol. From what I saw, Rashun didn't have the power to do more than what he did in terms of striking. I could be wrong, but hit someone really hard in a scenario like that and that person would back up, if they think they are weaker than you after that.

Like my last Sifu told me. "hit someone hard so they will fear the next punch."

 

[JowGaWolf]

Just for Clarity. I'm not saying the Wing Chun instructor Rashun can't fight. I'm just saying that he didn't show that he could fight with Wing Chun.

As for Waldo. JKD kicks can intercept any kick. None of that matters if the other person doesn't kick. In all honesty I don't see many street fights that have kicks in them, unless a person is on the ground.

 

[jayoliver00]

Headlines: JKD fan boy scared to spar with WC Instructor after Instructor offered sparring gear.

JKD wasn't scared. WC said he'd do it slowly for the JKD to try out his moves. JKD said, "Ima kick you for real" (para) and scoffed at WC, then demanded shin guards so he could show/spar WC.

JKD didn't head butt; more like a head push when 2 guys square up & 1 pushes the other, forehead to forehead. This is staging for a fight.

JKD was a little punk and deserved it. WC resorted to sloppy MMA.

 

[jayoliver00]

BTW, this WC guy is pretty well respected, he can fight. Just that it's not that easy to KO someone the F out. JKD kid can take a punch. That 1st punch (after the head push), WC slapped him with his left hand, held it there and threw a hook with his right. There's a video of him on YT, working with 1 of his students; a Boxer, who's not only a high level Pro, but a Title holder. Can't remember the name, but I recall he's a Mexican Boxer. His record on BoxRec was very legit when I was googling around about this backyard fight video a few months ago.

 

[jayoliver00]

One of my teachers was a student of Wong, Jack Man for about ten years. He always described Sifu Wong as an exceptional martial artist.

What I have noticed when people who interacted with Bruce Lee describe him, is the consistency with which they use the term “arrogant”.

For what it’s worth.

Wong Jack Man was probably just as arrogant when he was Bruce Lee's age. Both young and full of p & vinegar; out looking to make a name for themselves. Bruce Lee used to go around looking for fights to prove himself. He even posted fliers challenging other MA'ists, which was how he ran into Wong. We don't see much of that arrogance nor other poopy to come b/c it was cleaned up by PR and he died so young, becoming a timeless icon. I bet if Steven Seagal died after Under Siege II, he too would be some kinda legend (at least with the Aikido crowd).

 

[JowGaWolf]

BTW, this WC guy is pretty well respected, he can fight. Just that it's not that easy to KO someone the F out. JKD kid can take a punch.

When people see that video they will think, "He can fight, but he can't fight with WC."

There's a video of him on YT, working with 1 of his students; a Boxer, who's not only a high level Pro, but a Title holder.

This doesn't mean anything. Just because a Boxer wants to learn Wing Chun doesn't mean that the Wing Chun teacher can beat the Boxer. The Boxer is a title holder. The Wing Chun Instructor is not. My guess would be that he probably isn't known for being a fighter either.

I'm just basing this on most of the Kung Fu Sifu's I know. I may know of 2 or 3 living ones who are known as fighters. Pick any TMA system and the majority of the teachers aren't known for their fighting ability. This is especially true with Kung Fu systems.

The same can't be said about boxing coaches or MMA coaches.

 

[Anarax]

BTW, this WC guy is pretty well respected, he can fight.

He might be respected in he's own circle, but unfortunately this is what many people will know him for. He showed he's scrappy and gets emotional when confronted. However, I'm not seeing where he showed he's a skilled Martial Artists that can apply his training in a live situation.

Just that it's not that easy to KO someone the F out.

That's not what people are criticizing him for. It's that he's spent many years training in a martial art and trains other in said martial art but shows zero ability to apply his training in a live situation.

 

[JowGaWolf]

He might be respected in he's own circle, but unfortunately this is what many people will know him for. He showed he's scrappy and gets emotional when confronted. However, I'm not seeing where he showed he's a skilled Martial Artists that can apply his training in a live situation.

I'm' with you on this one. The actions didn't back up the fame. When it came to a small confrontation he failed on so many levels, including the on the display of his martial arts capability. As someone who strives to be a good representation of Jow Ga kung fu functionality. It sad to see someone spend so many years training a martial arts only to learn the surface.

The minimum of Wing Chun I would expect to see would be a vertical punch and there wasn't even that. He abandon all that he trained within that moment. He threw it all away and decided to choose what he thought would give him the best chance of success, and it wasn't Wing Chun. I feel that is the truth of what I saw.

 

[TSDTexan]

I'm' with you on this one. The actions didn't back up the fame. When it came to a small confrontation he failed on so many levels, including the on the display of his martial arts capability. As someone who strives to be a good representation of Jow Ga kung fu functionality. It sad to see someone spend so many years training a martial arts only to learn the surface.

The minimum of Wing Chun I would expect to see would be a vertical punch and there wasn't even that. He abandon all that he trained within that moment. He threw it all away and decided to choose what he thought would give him the best chance of success, and it wasn't Wing Chun. I feel that is the truth of what I saw.

Or protecting his centerline and gates. Where's his posture/structure?

Is it the case that, when he loses his cool and composure, that he reverts to brawling?

Of what use is a martial art that evaporates in the moment of stress? If your art is so well trained it should just flow like water.

I have seen old retired boxers wreck a mugger in two videos. They had been out of a gym for decades but looked pure boxer in form.

It could be that he has cross trained and actually doesn't fight using wing chun at all, but teaches and understands it.

 

[Tez3]

Both of them! Wth. First off you don't have to command attention to have an audience. Second off, neither one of them knew anything about what the hell they were doing. A qualified instructor doesn't get emotional about disgraceful behavior or have to set it right its train or go. Come send go. Not come get ruffled and fight like a girl. Follow the actual training in any training hall the fact that this guys proclaims to know wing chun and doesn't even understand the arts maxim makes him a retard. You don't go and challenge a real wing chun practitioner there not going to ground and pound you there going to strike you in the six gate and end your life. Sorry but both of them need alot of work.

Excuse me, fight like a girl ?

You know females can do martial arts and fight too, right?
You obviously mean 'brawl', it's not as if it were fighting.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It could be that he has cross trained and actually doesn't fight using wing chun at all, but teaches and understands it.

I have a 2 part response to this. It's not a disagreement but for me "Understanding something" is a broad statement and that's where my thoughts on this change. Not in disagreement but in what it means to me when someone says "they understand something." I get that from my dad. As teen, I would tell my dad that "I understand something." He would get get irritated and tell me that if I understood it then I would have gotten it right.

first " It could be that he has cross trained and actually doesn't fight using Wing Chun"
This is fine with me. I have no problem with this as I believe that there are 2 types of TMA practitioners. Scholars and Fighters. If he doesn't use WC to fight then he should be clear with that like Tai Chi for health. This is just how I feel personally because I think there needs to be more honesty about TMA than what there currently is.

"Doesn't fight using Wing Chun at all, but teaches and understands it." I don't think Wing Chun can be really understood until you fight with it. This could mean sparring or fighting against another fighting system, a brawler, or anyone non-Wing Chun. There's things that I understand about Jow Ga kung fu, that some Sifu's don't understand, because of my efforts to use it until I learn how to get it right.
This is the major problem with a lot of TMA people who never use it. They try to explain applications that they never used. This often causes assumptions and incorrect applications to be taught. The techniques are no problem problem for them. They get these down perfectly like a cook book. They remember "perfect form." But it's the actual experience of cooking that makes all the difference between Copying and Doing. Do they understand their kung fu? Yes but a very small piece of it.

There are a lot of things that can't be learned outside of sparring and fighting. Which is why so many TMA practioner's bailout of their teachings and training when it comes to actually applying it. If a person is a TMA scholar then be proud of that as there is no shame in it. But don't accept or take the fame that is built on assumptions about one's ability.

That's just me on my moral high horse. There wouldn't be the TMA vs MMA mess that we have now if people were simply more honest about what they do and the limits of their knowledge.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Excuse me, fight like a girl ?

You never miss it.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

It could be that he has cross trained and actually doesn't fight using wing chun at all, but teaches and understands it.

I dont think knee on belly is in wing chun, and he did that. So either way you cant say that putting your knee on the person there wasnt a good thing to do.

Makes snese, some people do kung fu more for conditioning as opposed to fighting, and some styles are more about pushing your body to the limit as opposed to fighting.

Although, EVERYTHING you know will be tapped into when you do anything. If you have done any mixture of martial arts if you fight anyone you wont be doing purely any of them just accessing whats valid in the situation. Its why purism is sort of of bad just because if somone cross trains and you are a purist, you will waste their time trying to fully rewire them to your system. (which will take years and i doubt can actually be done)

 

[JowGaWolf]

I dont think knee on belly is in wing chun, and he did that. So either way you cant say that putting your knee on the person there wasnt a good thing to do.

Makes snese, some people do kung fu more for conditioning as opposed to fighting, and some styles are more about pushing your body to the limit as opposed to fighting.

Although, EVERYTHING you know will be tapped into when you do anything. If you have done any mixture of martial arts if you fight anyone you wont be doing purely any of them just accessing whats valid in the situation. Its why purism is sort of of bad just because if somone cross trains and you are a purist, you will waste their time trying to fully rewire them to your system. (which will take years and i doubt can actually be done)

The easy way to answer this is to see if he cross trains. So far people only know him for Wing Chun and a lot of his explanations sounds of Kung Fu

I intentionally kept my gloves on in case things went south he would be somewhat protected.

Sounds of Kung fu. When we wear gloves and hit the heavy bag, do the gloves protect the bag or our hand? For me I'm not buying his reasoning even if he actually believed that. To me it's flawed. If he was concerned about not injuring waldo then just don't fight. That fight was 100% optional

When He got up he did try to kick me, but I saw his arm move indicating the kick he was about to throw, and I ducked and used a rising fat sao to unbalance him.

I don't know Wing Chun but Fat Sao sounds Wing Chun. Is this Fat Sao that he's talking about?

or is it this?

I played the video in slow motion and I didn't see it. For me personally, I'm not sure why he tried to duck that kick in the first place. Maybe to freeze the kick and make the person panic about being on one leg? What ever the reason I didn't see anything that looked like a "Rising Fat Sao." Unless that's what a Rising Fat Sao looks like like.

He would have been better off saying that he Cross Trains and that's what came out that day. Sometimes you punch, Sometimes you grapple. Sometimes you do both. But he didn't say that, so there's no need to factor that in.

 

[Flying Crane]

I dont think knee on belly is in wing chun, and he did that. So either way you cant say that putting your knee on the person there wasnt a good thing to do.

Wait, what..? You think a wing Chun guy is not allowed to put his knee on someone’s belly? You think that everything that someone does in a fight needs to be explicitly taught within the codified curriculum of the system? You see no room for creative and spontaneous applications?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Wait, what..? You think a wing Chun guy is not allowed to put his knee on someone’s belly? You think that everything that someone does in a fight needs to be explicitly taught within the codified curriculum of the system? You see no room for creative and spontaneous applications?

It's important to remember that the poster doesn't actually train or have any experience, so some of his views are more than a little silly.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I intentionally kept my gloves on in case things went south he would be somewhat protected.

Those gloves don't do anything to protect the person being punched. They protect the punchers hand. So this instructor lacks basic understandings.

 

[Flying Crane]

It's important to remember that the poster doesn't actually train or have any experience, so some of his views are more than a little silly.

Oh, that hasn’t escaped me. I was pointing out how ridiculous his statement was.