The cost of Ego, disrespect, and the failure of teachers and students.

[Alan0354]

There's only one known real fight (sparrings excluded) fight of BL. Wong Jack Man fight, which was summarized by BL (paraphrasing) : ****, I cant fight, but fortunately he can't fight even more.
End of digression.

Not what I heard in Hong Kong. I was still in Hong Kong until 1973 when he died. There were a lot of talk and Bruce Lee was on tv a lot talking. Funny when Bruce Lee was alive, nobody dare to say anything, after he died, all of a sudden, so many people claimed they can beat Bruce Lee.

 

[drop bear]

Not what I heard in Hong Kong. I was still in Hong Kong until 1973 when he died. There were a lot of talk and Bruce Lee was on tv a lot talking. Funny when Bruce Lee was alive, nobody dare to say anything, after he died, all of a sudden, so many people claimed they can beat Bruce Lee.

A lot of talk from all sides.

 

[Alan0354]

I don't think you will see this as trained in Wing Chun. What you see is Sticky Hands and how it looks when it's Wing Chun vs Wing Chun. When you use it against another someone who doesn't train Wing Chun then it will look different. Most people fight with one hand forward and one hand back. This means that you will be too far away to maintain sticky hands, which is probably why some Wing Chun schools are really big on always moving forward. This mindset may be so that you can close the distance. If you get close enough then you will cram your opponent's punches or encourage him to try to grab you. This is probably where Wing Chun sticky hands would be most effective.

We had one user apply sticky hands in ground fighting and based on the video that I saw this is when it looked like Wing Chun sticky hands. The only difference is that he was on the top mount punching down as the other person was trying to defend and deal with in the incoming punches.

1:33 - 1:39 is how I feel about Jow Ga. I think it applies to all Martial Arts systems.

The day I started to get really good at Jow Ga was the day I no longer thought Jow Ga vs Jow Ga. Jow Ga vs Everyone else makes the techniques easier to understand. When other Martial Artist here share information about their system, I start to think Jow Ga vs that system. I'm always asking myself "What is the Jow Ga Answer?" I think this way of thinking can help anyone. So those who have trouble with Wing Chun should think. Wing Chun vs Everyone else. Then when it's Wing Chun vs Boxing, then "What is the Wing Chun Answer"

You also have to give yourself flexibility to Develop Wing Chun. This is the most important because it will allow you to do Wing Chun in a way that fits the situation but it may go against what you were taught. This how development works. If you don't give yourself that flexibility then Wing Chun will never be yours. It will always be someone else's Wing Chun

You are thinking as an American, in the land of free, free to create and free challenge. In China where kung fu all started, you are discouraged to think, to change and to object. I was raised in Hong Kong, I know how it worked, worst is in China. In Kung Fu, they put a lot of emphasis in EXACT hand and feet placement, you have to do it in the exact way.

Wing Chun was started by a woman, you can see all the punches and strikes started in the middle of the chest. Emphasize in elbows close together to protect the breast ( for good reason). You can put a ring around the two elbows and they can fight like that. Same as the stand, they start with the leg separation from the first form( the "little idea"), then close the knees and sit to lower the body. Then they just turn to the left and become the traditional stand for Wing Chun. They advance by the left foot step forward and drag the right foot. They retreat by pushing the left foot to move the body back. This is very slow compare to boxing or MMA that dance back and fore. Wing Chun can never chase fast enough if they stuck with their stand. I think they have the stand like this to protect the genital......understandable for woman. they have a name for it in Chinese, I don't know how to translate it.

We in the East are taught to copy, glorifying copy, not original. Creativity is NOT encouraged. I was a musician when I was in Hong Kong( had a little name in 1972) by winning 4 Talent Quest in two years. We copy the song to the exact, even the guitar solo followed the exactly the original song, that's what they called good. It's only after I came here in 73 then I opened my eyes and change. I have recordings of before and after I came here. The ones from here was so much better!!! It's a different philosophy, you have to live there to understand. I am so blessed to be able to come here and open my eyes.

Look at Xu Ziaodong, China HATE him for making their traditional kung fu look so bad. They even force him to paint his face before he can go into a match to humiliate him. There is a standing offer of $20K for anyone who can beat him. He reminds me of Bruce Lee back in the days, those "masters" hated him because BL called them out like Xu Ziaodong. I was surprised China finally acknowledge Bruce Lee and have a stature of him somewhere.

funny in your video, I understand exactly what he said, he must be in Hong Kong, speaking the same language I speak before( I speak English at home now). He is so bitter, saying Xu Ziaodong just whaling punches, can take a punch on the head and still nothing bother him!! MMA is so fast you have no time to think, look at how fast he chased down the Tai Chi master. The thing that I look at the most is the foot work in UFC fights, a lot is on the foot work. I am not an expert, I started stick fight 3 months ago, I started with footwork and add the stick into it, not the other way around. Same as I practice punching and kicking, all from the footwork and add onto it. Too bad I am too old and slow down. People in UFC have amazing speed on footwork.

 

[Alan0354]

A lot of talk from all sides.

We just heard a lot more because I was there. They had fights funded by private party that was not open to the public. It was quite famous one actor that good in fighting challenged BL, at the beginning BL did not accept, but some private party put up a lot of money to have them fight in private, BL accepted, he beat the guy. The guy never dispute it when the news was out.

It's very different back there at the time. Rich people are very rich, they have the money to put a fight like this. It is not uncommon. Remember, this is before 1973, no youtube, no phones with video recorders. You have to have a camera to film it. Just because you don't have the video doesn't mean it did not happen.

 

[Dirty Dog]

A lot of talk from all sides.

Shouldn't there be a Mysterious Monk in the story?

 

[Alan0354]

I can't fly a plane, therefore no one can.

If the style is really that good, they can find someone that is good enough to get into the Octagon and prove it. There's big money in it, it's not as if it's a waste of time.

 

[Alan0354]

Guys, there's no point talking about Bruce Lee too much, it's 50 years ago, I was there, you guys are not, we all don't have any proof one way or the other.

Let's talk about Xu Ziaodong, he is alive and kicking, he remind me of Bruce Lee. He challenge a lot of those "masters" and whoop their butt(now, these are ALL on youtube). There is a standing offer of $20K to anyone that can beat him in China. He's still alive and kicking and talk trash. I am sure if anyone can beat him, it will be all over youtube. I am still waiting.

It's so easy to talk. I heard "I don't want to show this because it's too deadly", " I don't want to use it because I don't want people to steal it!!".

 

[Cynik75]

Wing Chun was started by a woman, you can see all the punches and strikes started in the middle of the chest. Emphasize in elbows close together to protect the breast ( for good reason).

Any evidence except myth? Proven lineage of WC is man-only. Knowing the role of women in Chinese society I really doubt it.
Much more likely WC was invented to fight in small, closed rooms and corridors etc. (Red Boats?) where was no place to footwork, headwork, long distance punches and kicks, no place for throws, just chest to chest bare knuckle butchery.

 

[drop bear]

We just heard a lot more because I was there. They had fights funded by private party that was not open to the public. It was quite famous one actor that good in fighting challenged BL, at the beginning BL did not accept, but some private party put up a lot of money to have them fight in private, BL accepted, he beat the guy. The guy never dispute it when the news was out.

It's very different back there at the time. Rich people are very rich, they have the money to put a fight like this. It is not uncommon. Remember, this is before 1973, no youtube, no phones with video recorders. You have to have a camera to film it. Just because you don't have the video doesn't mean it did not happen.

And yet the fights that are on video at the time were terrible slap fists.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

If the style is really that good, they can find someone that is good enough to get into the Octagon and prove it. There's big money in it, it's not as if it's a waste of time.

As if the only reason to study a martial art is to beat people in the octagon. I've been trying to be polite. Let me be more blunt. You're blind to what you do not wish to see and incapable of grasping anything outside of your very limited understanding. If you are happy in your ignorance, so be it. There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.

 

[Alan0354]

Any evidence except myth? Proven lineage of WC is man-only. Knowing the role of women in Chinese society I really doubt it.
Much more likely WC was invented to fight in small, closed rooms and corridors etc. (Red Boats?) where was no place to footwork, headwork, long distance punches and kicks, no place for throws, just chest to chest bare knuckle butchery.

You watch series in AHV channel called Ancient Assassins ? They have a one hour show on this that she's from Shaolin escaping all that. This is so well known. This is the preview:

 

[drop bear]

Guys, there's no point talking about Bruce Lee too much, it's 50 years ago, I was there, you guys are not, we all don't have any proof one way or the other.

Let's talk about Xu Ziaodong, he is alive and kicking, he remind me of Bruce Lee. He challenge a lot of those "masters" and whoop their butt(now, these are ALL on youtube). There is a standing offer of $20K to anyone that can beat him in China. He's still alive and kicking and talk trash. I am sure if anyone can beat him, it will be all over youtube. I am still waiting.

It's so easy to talk. I heard "I don't want to show this because it's too deadly", " I don't want to use it because I don't want people to steal it!!".

A decent pro would murder the guy. And an average UFC fighter would murder that pro and of course the top guys murder that average fighter.

Which to me is very telling as to how good those guys really are.

 

[Alan0354]

As if the only reason to study a martial art is to beat people in the octagon. I've been trying to be polite. Let me be more blunt. You're blind to what you do not wish to see and incapable of grasping anything outside of your very limited understanding. If you are happy in your ignorance, so be it. There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.

That's the best way to prove it. Talk is cheap. Don't like UFC, there are Ballator( spelling) or the very new Profession Fight shown in ESPN. They just showed a woman gold medalist in Judo beat up another MMA fighter in less than one round. Show and tell.

 

[Alan0354]

A decent pro would murder the guy. And an average UFC fighter would murder that pro and of course the top guys murder that average fighter.

Which to me is very telling as to how good those guys really are.

If any style is that good, why can't they train one that is that good? There's a lot of money in it, it's not as if it's a waste of time.

 

[Alan0354]

Guys, I am not an expert, just put in a few years in Tae Kwon Do. I conceded MMA eat me for lunch. I called my regular workout as "aerobic" to keep in shape by punching heavy bags and do air drills. Saw too many talks, the only way is show and tell. There's big money in this if you can take it. I am not going to keep repeating the same thing.

I better end my involvement in this thread, I am here to learn stick fight, not even interested in MA anymore. I don't want to get banned for this. Good Bye

 

[Dirty Dog]

You watch series in AHV channel called Ancient Assassins ? They have a one hour show on this that she's from Shaolin escaping all that. This is so well known. This is the preview:

And this is your idea of evidence, is it?

 

[drop bear]

If any style is that good, why can't they train one that is that good? There's a lot of money in it, it's not as if it's a waste of time.

There actually isn't money in it.

You have to be a top teir martial artist to be a wealthy pro fighter. Especially in mixed martial arts.

This is why guys like Ben Askren will box youtube nobody. Because he gets paid more for that than he has ever been paid for his real competitive matches.

But you can build up a house of cards. Fight nobody, risk nothing and with good branding sell a system that people will climb over broken glass to do.

Which is why I go on about martial arts being more of a belief system than a science.

For example this seminar is 3 to 4 hundred dollars each for a weekend.

RCI Seminars & Courses

See all of our upcoming events for RAW Combat International including Luke Holloway seminars!

www.raw-combat.com

I know ten guys locally who would eat that guy alive and train you if you shouted them lunch.

 

[Cynik75]

You watch series in AHV channel called Ancient Assassins ? They have a one hour show on this that she's from Shaolin escaping all that. This is so well known.

This is so well known legend. The King Artur kind of story.

 

[JowGaWolf]

There is a standing offer of $20K to anyone that can beat him in China. He's still alive and kicking and talk trash. I am sure if anyone can beat him, it will be all over youtube. I am still waiting.

$20k isn't a lot of money for the task or repairing the Pride of Kung Fu Masters. Let's say I go there and beat him with Jow Ga Kung Fu and knock him out. Then all the kung fu masters will say "This is proof that kung fu works." Then they will use my victory as their victory. I don't like that. To me that's arrogant. The only thing I would have shown the world is that I can fight using Jow Ga. It will only show that I'm not fake. Since that's the reality of it. 20K is small money to repair their reputation.

As far as I know Xu Ziaodong, has not called anyone in this forum Fake Martial artist, He has not called Cung Le a fake martial artist. The only people who he's interested in fighting are those who have that arrogant pride, that they are so deadly and make excuses for not showing their ability.

My pride was not hurt when he beat the Kung Fu Masters. Like many who saw the videos, we could tell right away that they had no fighting skills. I didn't even feel sad when the Kung Fu Masters lost. I just say they should be more honest with their training. Don't say it's something that it's not.

Xu Ziaodong isn't using some advance techniques to beat them. He's using the same stuff that many of us see in sparring and competition, and for some of us, it's the same things we experienced in street fights. Basic punching. If a "kung fu master" cannot defend against basic punching, then that says more about his lack of training.

I personally wouldn't fight for 20K to fix someone else's reputation, and for them to walk around like they were the ones who won the fight.

 

[TSDTexan]

There's only one known real fight (sparrings excluded) fight of BL. Wong Jack Man fight, which was summarized by BL (paraphrasing) : ****, I cant fight, but fortunately he can't fight even more.
End of digression.

Which of course led to him completely overhauling his martial art practice. He stopped teaching "Jun Fan" gung fu and laid down the basis of jkd.

As if the only reason to study a martial art is to beat people in the octagon. I've been trying to be polite. Let me be more blunt. You're blind to what you do not wish to see and incapable of grasping anything outside of your very limited understanding. If you are happy in your ignorance, so be it. There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.

The parallel thought "there is no greater slave than the one who mistakenly thinks he's free"